Vancouver Bars Network Together to Track Patrons

Tortured Potato writes "The Vancouver Sun reports that bar owners in the area will soon start tracking patrons by photo and driver's license. 'John Teti, chairman of the coalition, said the vote is merely a formality. "We have full backing from our members," Teti said Monday....Once the system is in place, patrons will be asked to stand in front of a camera to have their picture taken and will then swipe their drivers' licence, or possibly show some other form of identification, that will automatically give the establishment the patron's name and age and show if he or she has caused trouble at any other bar on the network.' I'm glad to see that Big Brother is alive and well on the left coast." This is the next step past merely swiping licenses.

Comments

Astounding Implications...

[cliffiecee]

Just spewing thoughts here...

Can this system keep track of a 'bar tab' for me as well? Does it provide ANY value to me as a customer? (update: after RTFA, the answer given was 'give-up-your-anonymity-for-"safety"')

What if I get 'blacklisted'? How long does my name stay on the list?

Can I SEE the list? Will they at least TELL me I'm on the list?

Wait a second... Am I on this list automatically, once my picture/ID is recorded? Before I've even done anything? (See previous line)

I'm assuming the Police would LOVE access to this list, so they'll have it, officially or not. (update: I just RTFA; YES, they can subpoena info from the list)

I'm assuming local employers will LOOOVE access to this list... A reason to fire current employees or refuse future candidates.

(update: after RTFA, and I love the comparison of this system with renting a car. I didn't know going to a bar was so serious...)

Re:Magnetic Strips and barcodes...

[JimBobJoe]

In addition to simply demagnetizing the stripe, you could re-encode the stripe with new information...like you're really over 21...or your name is really something else, et cetera.

With barcodes you can always put a sticker with a new barcode over the original barcode. You would have to be looking really hard to notice, if done right (remember people printing up new UPC barcodes for Wal Mart products?)

The only type of machine readable document implement that is difficult to change are simultaneously human readable...the readable characters on the passport (found on the first page on most passports and have lots of little >>>>>>>> thingies) were originally conceived on a privacy basis, because people would always know what's encoded in their passports. I cite the security advantages, since a human can read what the machine can read, and its easy for a human to double check that.

Not that they would. When a human has a machine to read a document, they will almost always just trust what the machine says, and not check what the document says.

Don't Abuse the Big Brother Image

[Featureless]

There are plenty of places Big Brother is urgently applicable today. Just not here.

Central to George Orwell's image is the notion of coercion. You are certainly coerced if the government requires you to participate in an invasive information system by law. And there are many ways you can experience more subtle coercion "by policy" as well... because you ostensibly have the freedom not to participate, but only in theory.

This seems like one case when this kind of technology is OK - because participating in it is something people can choose to do - or not - by exercising their options in a healthy, competitive marketplace.

For the sake of comparison, POTS telephone companies (regional monopolies; barrier to entry: illegal), or CPU companies (only two x86 players; barrier to entry: inconceivable) are not "healthy, competitive" marketplaces.

Monopolies like Microsoft requiring the installation and maintenance of DRM systems? Coercion, possible because of an (extremely) unhealthy marketplace.

Verizon saying "I'm going to sell your phone records to marketers?" Coercion. Where are your alternatives if you want to opt out?

But bars aren't like that at all.

I couldn't see myself going to any place that did this, but I don't think I could say they shouldn't be allowed to do it. Let them track and photograph their patrons in ways even the Vegas casinos won't do. No one forces you to go a bar. Opening a bar is within the grasp of many, many entrepeneurs. This means (within reason) you will be able to opt out. This kind of security measure should succeed, or fail (and who can guess which, in the end?), in that marketplace based on its merits.

What I worry about? If that's what it takes to keep bars running well, what does it say about our society?