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Vancouver Bars Network Together to Track Patrons
Tortured Potato writes "The Vancouver Sun reports
that bar owners in the area will soon start
tracking patrons by photo and driver's license. 'John Teti, chairman of the coalition,
said the vote is merely a formality. "We have
full backing from our members," Teti said
Monday....Once the system is in place, patrons
will be asked to stand in front of a camera to
have their picture taken and will then swipe
their drivers' licence, or possibly show some
other form of identification, that will
automatically give the establishment the patron's
name and age and show if he or she has caused
trouble at any other bar on the network.' I'm
glad to see that Big Brother is alive and well on
the left coast." This is the next step past merely swiping licenses.
I make it a point to not go to places that want to scan my license... and when I'm in the right mood, I drink a lot... really a lot (usually without causing trouble, never been cut off, in a barfight, or eight-sixed)
I mean, *really a lot*...
if you want me, I'll be down the street at the place that doesn't care who I am, giving them a bunch of money.
If I was that drunk, I would have remembered it -- H. Simpson
That works for me.
1. Move to Vancouver
2. Open a bar
3. Don't treat your patrons as criminals
4. Profit
"When it rains, it pours." --Morton's Salt
Brings new meaning to the Cheers themesong "you wanna go where everybody knows your name..."
I can picture it now. Norm opens door, swipes ID. Photobot robot declares "Norm!" in computerized chorus of voices then snaps photo of Norm. Normbot then rolls over to the bar and asks for a glass of motor oil but is denied for a drunken battlebot fights with Cliffbot. Woodybot has had a hard disk failure and begins mumbling about his days back on the moisture farm with C3PO...
Hmm, my thoughs seem to have degenerated. what was I talking about?
Just spewing thoughts here...
Can this system keep track of a 'bar tab' for me as well? Does it provide ANY value to me as a customer? (update: after RTFA, the answer given was 'give-up-your-anonymity-for-"safety"')
What if I get 'blacklisted'? How long does my name stay on the list?
Can I SEE the list? Will they at least TELL me I'm on the list?
Wait a second... Am I on this list automatically, once my picture/ID is recorded? Before I've even done anything? (See previous line)
I'm assuming the Police would LOVE access to this list, so they'll have it, officially or not. (update: I just RTFA; YES, they can subpoena info from the list)
I'm assuming local employers will LOOOVE access to this list... A reason to fire current employees or refuse future candidates.
(update: after RTFA, and I love the comparison of this system with renting a car. I didn't know going to a bar was so serious...)
I live downtown Vancouver, 2 blocks from the "granville row" that they refer to in the article.
I've played in the house band of one of these clubs, and know a LOT of people that work and play in these clubs.
I think this is a GOOD thing.
Even as we speak, a friend of mine is STILL recuperating from a severe shit-kicking that happened within one of the bars over 2 months ago.
She (yes, SHE) was minding her own business, when 2 guys bumped into her boyfriend, who turned around with the typical "WTF!?", and the 2 guys almost killed him. I wish I were being over-dramatic, but they literally ALMOST KILLED HIM. They knew how to fight, and they went at it. One of them even pulled out a collapsable baton and hit him while he was down. It should be mentioned that the guy who got shit-kicked was knocked down and unconscious before he even finished the "WTF!?".
At this point, his girlfriend jumped in and tried to get them to stop, so they started beating her with the baton.
This happened in less than 30 seconds, in front of a horrified bartender, and the guys were gone before any bouncers could arrive... and they weren't slow to get there.
Even now the bar-scene staff, Vancouver Police, and RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police), are trying to figure out who the guys were and how to find them.
The sad part is that it's not an isolated incedent. In-bar muggings and shootings are on the rise, with a number of East Indian and Asian gangs going nuts on each other.
My whole philosophy is that it's private property, it's reasonable for the bars to ask you to do this to get in, and at the end of the day, you don't HAVE to go there. You don't like their policies, don't go.
If anything, I'd rather see this story being discussed from a "technology-based solution to a problem" angle rather than a knee-jerk "oh my God they're coming to get us, put on your tinfoil hats!" angle.
$0.02 (CDN)
In addition to simply demagnetizing the stripe, you could re-encode the stripe with new information...like you're really over 21...or your name is really something else, et cetera.
With barcodes you can always put a sticker with a new barcode over the original barcode. You would have to be looking really hard to notice, if done right (remember people printing up new UPC barcodes for Wal Mart products?)
The only type of machine readable document implement that is difficult to change are simultaneously human readable...the readable characters on the passport (found on the first page on most passports and have lots of little >>>>>>>> thingies) were originally conceived on a privacy basis, because people would always know what's encoded in their passports. I cite the security advantages, since a human can read what the machine can read, and its easy for a human to double check that.
Not that they would. When a human has a machine to read a document, they will almost always just trust what the machine says, and not check what the document says.
There are plenty of places Big Brother is urgently applicable today. Just not here.
Central to George Orwell's image is the notion of coercion. You are certainly coerced if the government requires you to participate in an invasive information system by law. And there are many ways you can experience more subtle coercion "by policy" as well... because you ostensibly have the freedom not to participate, but only in theory.
This seems like one case when this kind of technology is OK - because participating in it is something people can choose to do - or not - by exercising their options in a healthy, competitive marketplace.
For the sake of comparison, POTS telephone companies (regional monopolies; barrier to entry: illegal), or CPU companies (only two x86 players; barrier to entry: inconceivable) are not "healthy, competitive" marketplaces.
Monopolies like Microsoft requiring the installation and maintenance of DRM systems? Coercion, possible because of an (extremely) unhealthy marketplace.
Verizon saying "I'm going to sell your phone records to marketers?" Coercion. Where are your alternatives if you want to opt out?
But bars aren't like that at all.
I couldn't see myself going to any place that did this, but I don't think I could say they shouldn't be allowed to do it. Let them track and photograph their patrons in ways even the Vegas casinos won't do. No one forces you to go a bar. Opening a bar is within the grasp of many, many entrepeneurs. This means (within reason) you will be able to opt out. This kind of security measure should succeed, or fail (and who can guess which, in the end?), in that marketplace based on its merits.
What I worry about? If that's what it takes to keep bars running well, what does it say about our society?
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