Monkeys Play Videogames With Their Mind

Thanks to IOL/Reuters for their story discussing research on monkeys who control videogames with their thoughts. According to the piece, "Dr Miguel Nicolelis knew he had nailed it when the monkey stopped using her arm to play the computer game. An implanted device had allowed the monkey to control the game using only her thought." The research, to be printed in Public Library Of Science Biology Journal on Monday, is intended to help humans who "have partial or nearly total permanent paralysis."

Comments

Humans can do this too

[keesh]

Kevin Warwick has been doing this for ages.

Re:Humans can do this too

[blincoln]

Kevin Warwick is really overrated by the media (and himself, IMO). The last time I checked, the extent of his "cybernetic implant" was a chip that did something like emit radio waves so that doors in his house would open automatically for him.

The real pioneers of this technology are the ones who go to Europe to have electrodes implanted in their brain to participate in artificial vision research that's currently illegal in the US. I am not a fan of animal experimentation, and a human that can verbally describe what they're seeing seems like a more useful way to gather data than trying to infer it from a monkey's behaviour.

In the case of this article, it seems like being able to tell someone "now try moving the robotic arm without moving your real one" is a lot more straightforward than waiting for a monkey to figure it out on their own.

I'm sure there are many people with disabilities (and even some without them) who would be interested in participating in research like this. I know I would, if I became blind or lost the use of a limb. I'm glad that the article mentions that human trials are now beginning.

Re:Humans can do this too

[Ieshan]

I know you're not a big fan of animal research, but I figured I'd try to enlighten you a bit.

Many of the research conditions required by advanced neuropsychology require very direct control over the type of injury that a patient has. Because we're only "starting" to know a great deal about areas of the brain (both human, simian, and avian), we must control very carefully the types of injuries that our test subjects have.

Studies such as these cost tens of thousands of dollars to perform - not because the technology is costly (which it is) - but because test subjects are required with such precision. Think about how hard it would be to get test subjects with one particular condition flown in from all around the globe, and that's only after you've gone out to interview them or have spent the money to find out about them. Then, you've got to make sure they've got exactly the type of injury that will help progress your research - a blunder could ruin the experiment.

There are lots of different things that control "now try moving the robotic arm without moving your real one". Thousands of pathways that could be injured in the intermediary. When scientists conduct animal tests, they are doing it for the benefit of the humans they help to aid - and often, it involves very specific lesions that must be carefully examined post-mortem: such a sacrifice we cannot expect humans to provide.

Trust me when I say this: no one likes harming aminals, even for test purposes. There's no joy when we realize that some of the pigeons I work with might have to die some day, to be able to validate the research we conduct. It's not pretty to note these things, but it's neccessary to continue furthering our understanding of the brain and of vision.

Any questions specifically about avian visual psychology (that's what I research), will be gladly accepted. :)

PS: Very, very few of our test subjects are ever harmed, and yes, they've all got names instead of numbers. ;)

Re:Humans can do this too

[ManoMarks]

I'll preface my remarks with this: I too get a bad feeling when I think about all those animals who can't consent to this procedures being forced to do really unnatural things. That being said: While I'm sure that some would be willing to participate in these kinds of experiments, I know a lot of people in the disability community that are tired of being treated like objects by doctors, and tools for experimentation. Many who live with chronic conditions suffer a great deal of pain or discomfort and are reluctant to try anything that has the significant potential of causing more without a significant chance of working. There's an additional drawback to experimenting on humans first. Many things we think of as disabilities are little more than a broad range of symptoms lumped together. So it's hard to define your group and rule out what might be causing a problem. If you know in general that the practice works with otherwise healthy monkeys, it can help you figure out what goes where and translate that to a human brain. My main problem with any sort of brain experimentation is that so little is known about how the human brain functions. I think this is an enormous advance for science. The implications are staggering and of course I'd like to see this technology moved to work with humans.

Re:Humans can do this too

[ChaoticLimbs]

MOD PARENT UP
INSIGHTFUL
There really ARE people out there on /. who are rational in their views instead of compassionately anti-everything! Oh, Joy!

I for one

[Anonymous Coward]

...welcome our new cybernetic monkey overlords!

Hmmm.

[Izanagi]

System.out.println("Balmer singing: ");
while (true) {
System.out.println("Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, ");
}

Gah! More tech for "paralyzed people"

[QuantumG]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to get in a car crash or fall off a horse before I can get some electrodes inserted in my head. I'm a programmer, I work with computers every day.. I think I qualify for a brain-computer interface better than someone who just happened to have the misfortune to lose control of their upper body! But no, every time some new piece of research discovers a brain-computer interface the first bunch of people they go running after are the paralyzed.

"However, the results so far lead us to believe that these brain-machine interfaces hold enormous promise for restoring function to paralyzed people."

Just once I'd like to hear "results so far lead us to believe that these brain-machine interfaces hold enormous promise for increased programmer productivity."

Re:Gah! More tech for "paralyzed people"

[Ycros]

It reminds me of Ghost in the Shell... The ability to transplant your brain into a robot body... brain augmentations.... communication without speech...

Re:Gah! More tech for "paralyzed people"

[QuantumG]

communication with speech would be cool.. except my girlfriend would probably want me to get an implant so she could nag me 24 hours a day :)

Re:Gah! More tech for "paralyzed people"

[Slowping]

Just once I'd like to hear "results so far lead us to believe that these brain-machine interfaces hold enormous promise for increased programmer productivity."

Because stating it this way will make you lose your research funding.

The people who decide where to give research funding are pathetic beaurocrats that want to think their job is important. They want to believe that they play a critical role in saving the world. Stroking that ego is how you continue to get research funding for stuff like this.

Saying that you're developing technology to blur the human/computer line will cause these people to immediately panick and stop your research, pending an ethical debate.

Re:Gah! More tech for "paralyzed people"

[Slowping]

Just once I'd like to hear "results so far lead us to believe that these brain-machine interfaces hold enormous promise for increased programmer productivity."

.. as an addendum (not meant as a troll)...

And besides, even with a two or three fold increase in productivity, it's still cheaper for companies to outsource most of their programming tasks anyways.

Re:Gah! More tech for "paralyzed people"

[wayne606]

.... to monkies.

Re:Gah! More tech for "paralyzed people"

[pmz]

Just once I'd like to hear "results so far lead us to believe that these brain-machine interfaces hold enormous promise for increased programmer productivity."

So, what happens to people who go through invasive surgery only to find that their favorite IDE had already gone out of fashion?

Implanting technology for only short-term gain is a very dangerous road to follow. For disabled people, there is much less of a moral problem, when they can have a few years of being less disabled. A programmer might have a few years of being more productive but then have permanent yet obselete technology embedded in his brain.

IMO, it's almost as bad as risking death just to take in a sagging chin or inflate those boobies.

Re:Gah! More tech for "paralyzed people"

[QuantumG]

bah! There's upgradable hardware.. the connectors won't go out of fashion that fast. So you'd have a "standard" connector inserted, along with a whole lot of FPGA gates and you'd flash upgrade when necessary. Besides, what's wrong with going under the knife once a year?

Re:Gah! More tech for "paralyzed people"

[pmz]

Besides, what's wrong with going under the knife once a year?

Because each surgery carries a real risk of death, due to anesthesiology being the black magic of modern medicine (not to mention risk of infection in modern understaffed hospitals). When they actually know what they are doing in the operating room and there are enough nurses to pass around, I'll be less apprehensive about non-essential surgery.

Re:Gah! More tech for "paralyzed people"

[QuantumG]

Who the hell is going to get implants done in a public hospital? No, this is going to be a private clinic affair.. and it will cost a fortune, and when things cost a fortune your doctors go to a lot of trouble to make sure you don't die.

Category, etc.

[Noah Adler]

Why is this not posted under Science? Just because it uses games as part of the research doesn't mean its all just for entertainment.

Plenty of other brain-computer interface links have been posted under the proper category: Mind-Controlled Wheelchair, Controlling Robots with the Mind,Linking Hardware to Wetware, etc. This article is a continuation of this field's story.

Personally, I think this is one of the coolest areas of research around right now. The ability to, in the near future, help paralyzed people regain mobility and function would indeed be an incredible accomplishment, but that's just the start. This kind of research could help improve humans themselves. Imagine adding new cybernetic body parts, or even new senses (ability to 'see' infrared for example). There are a lot of potential possibilities. Forget the ad-hoc wireless computer networks, this tech could possibly enable something like an ad-hoc human brain network (telepathy anyone?) Seems very very cool and useful.

If this rate of progress keeps up (which seems likely), perhaps Slashdot will need to create a Brain-Computer Interface category.

Re:Category, etc.

[danila]

And also a brain-computer interface version for those users who choose to access /. not from their desktop computers or PDAs, but directly with their brain. :)

They've got nothing on my girlfriend

[El]

She's been playing mind-games for years!

Re:They've got nothing on my girlfriend

[starX]

Yeah, and mine has these cyberpsychic implants installed in her mind that send commands to the ones installed in mine. That way my will bends to her own without me even knowing it. It works out reat, the only down side being.... wait, what am I talking about, there is no down side. You know, I spend too much time on slashdot, I think I should go make dinner and then then clean up the kitchen.... mistress will be so pleased!

Controlling the monkeys

[elliotj]

An implanted device had allowed the monkey to control the game using only her thought.

That's nice and all, but wouldn't it be more useful to build a device that lets us control monkeys with our thoughts!

After the apocalypse, when apes rule the planet, we'd be glad for such technology.

Wrong Story Category?

[joshsnow]

Dr Miguel Nicolelis knew he had nailed it when the monkey stopped using her arm to play the computer game.
Should this story be in the Ximian section? And isn't it "Dr Miguel d'incaza"? Also, I didn't know the Ximian monkey was female...

Finally modern gaming has caught up with...

[xanderwilson]

the advanced technology of the Atari 2600
http://videogames.org/html/images/mindlink.gif

Alex.

I think I was playing against him the other day...

[EvilBastard]

Explains why he couldn't communicate in english, at very least.

So do these monkeys also have a collective brain?

[ChoGGi]

Monkeys Play Videogames With Their Mind

In recent news....

[skinnedmink]

In recent news a new counter strike clan has formed and won CAL. The clan is a little more grown up then most clans. The clan is a monkey only group. Some humans are complaining that it shouldn't count. Nowhere, in CAL's rules does it say no monkeys. One player on the team that lost was heard to say "OMG TH()SE M#KEYS PWNS US!!!!!1!"

just imagine

[chadamir]

just imagine what we could do with a beowolf cluster of monkeys!

Power source?

[daltonlp]

Maybe we can use intravenous tubes to feed the monkeys while their minds are playing videogames. We could keep them locked in some type of pod.

The heat and electricity produced by many monkeys (maybe combined with some form of fusion) could be a valuable resource!

Re:Power source?

[Baikala]

Remember that originally the humans in the matrix were used for masive parallel processing, but the studio tougth that was over the head of the averange joe so they change that into the 'maybe combined with some form of fusion'-batery plot (if they have developed fusion what the hell need humans for).

I for once would like better the original argument.

PLoS is now online.

[Anonymous Coward]

I stayed up for the Public Library of Science to go online. (Yay!)

ObBeKindServers: The actual article is 16 pages of neurobiology captured in a 3.3MB PDF file. Unless this is your field, you may find 13 of the 16 pages a difficult read.

A 28KB synopsis PDF file is much more accessable to those outside the field: Retraining the Brain to Recover Movement . Check it out first.

Monkeys vs. Humans online

[njchick]

Wouldn't it be fun to let monkeys play themselves in role play games like The Sims? Or how about confronting a monkey head to head in Quake? Sure, the monkey would need better armor and weapons to match the experience of human players.

Re:Monkeys vs. Humans online

[fuzzybunny]

It will be really interesting to see how Garry Kasparov measures up, playing a round of chess against IBM's Deep Monkey.

Re:Monkeys vs. Humans online

[pdbogen]

Imagine a beowulf cluster of monkies!

Re:Monkeys vs. Humans online

[danila]

Morpheus? What are you doing on Slashdot?

Two words:

[floydigus]

Donkey Kong.

red dwarf

[johndoejersey]

just like better than life

or maybe not

just like red dwarf

[johndoejersey]

better than life

well, kind of.

The NYTimes story and such

[jeffsenter]

Here's the NYTimes' fairly long piece on it(free reg. req.).
While there is great potential for helping people with paralysis there is also potential to use such technology for military purposes. This is a small step in the direction of creating Terminators.

HEY!

[Psychochild]

I am not a monkey! I prefer the term game developer, you insenstive clod!

Re:dont experiment on it if its perfectly fine

[ChaoticLimbs]

You, sir, are a total jackass.
Has it completely evaded you that this procedure is BRAIN surgery which carries a certain risk of death or brain infection?
If a monkey is used, the risk of human death from the procedure's experimental nature is eliminated.
Are you one of those people who thinks animal life is equivalent to human life? Is it just the gimps who are equivalent to a rhesus macac? Maybe you value paralysis victims on the same level as the rhesus macac, but I value the human more.
Let me reiterate. Animals are food. Animals are sources of leather and potential subjects for lifesaving experimentation. I am not advocating wanton cruelty or unnecessary frivolous harm to animals, I am advocating non-emotional rational discourse. Your reaction smacks of self-loathing, like you consider yourself equal to a dog or a rat or a cockroach. Maybe you're right about yourself, but I object to being placed in that category you've made for all of the rest of us.

.. and now its gone ..

[adri]

Could you or someone else please post a mirror to this?

Hmm...

[chendo]

This reminds me of the article that was posted a while ago where somebody did a whole report on how the Matrix would be even possible, and somewhere in there it had something about attaching neurotransmitters into the brains and branching it out everwhere, and then have a computer detect what each neuron did, and then convert into movement.

Imagine the possibilites for gaming and science... pure virtual reality, etc.

Ghost in the Shell sure comes to my mind.

Backward

[Flingles]

In soviet russia the computers control the monkey!

What? Oh Ape Escape...

Re:Dr. Strangelove? Political Assassinations? etc.

[broken.data]

There was something like that.. It was called Idle Hands

Use a scratch monkey!

[AndroidCat]

Before long, the scientists said, they will upgrade the monkeys so they can transmit their mental commands to machines wirelessly.

Upgrade the monkeys?! I hope they remember to always use a scratch monkey during upgrade testing.