Slashdot Mirror
Brill's Contentious ID Card
pwackerly writes "The New York Times (illegal kidney sale required) is running a story on a private venture funded by the man behind CourtTV to sell ID cards that let you bypass security, both national (airports) and private (your business's lobby). Outside of the standard national ID concerns, now we'd have to worry about a terrorist stealing our super-secret ID from our wallet. Don't these people learn anything from reading 'Mostly Harmless?'"
is that Terrorist groups will start recruiting people who are not on a watch list and who have not convicted of a felony. If airlines use it for easy check-in, then you may as well call it the Shoe Bomb permit.
It seems those who are influential enough in government to fund quicker security at airports are the same ones who'd receive these ID cards.
So, you let all the influential people slide by quickly, and they'll never realize there's a real problem. I say let the influential people deal with the wait the same way we do, and then hopefully they'll do something about it.
How, though, do they intend to verify that those applying for these cards really have the "credentials" being given to them? Background searches on that kind of a scale would be an extremely intensive undertaking for any organization. Furthermore, there is no way this could be done for the $30 or $50 mentioned in the article. They could, I suppose, require the applicant to submit proof that they meet the requirements for obtaining one of these cards, but then that raises a new problem: falsified records/information. "He said that the system was probably unworkable." I'd say so.
"Aye, and if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon!" -- Montgomery Scott, ST:III
"Ohhhh, I'm much to important to bother myself with following the behaviors needed to ensure a civil society." This guy probably talks on the cellphone while driving his SUV.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
$30 to $50 dollars just to sign up and "a couple of dollars a month". It's could be a license to print money. Can you say "Monopoly", I knew you could.
This kind of card would only be "fair" if the modified free market is allowed to operate. You don't have to buy your server certificates from Verisign (of course the way that they bought other companies, it's hard not to), so why should all the card readers at public spots focus on one company's authenication system
Besides, as states tend to get more and more info on their id cards (aka drivers licences), the "need" for a separate system is becoming a moot point. Already some bars will "swipe" an ID rather than just look at the picture (also getting addresses, age and other data into their database).
Overall, I don't think that it will work, you might be able to get a couple of states to sign on but the cost is too high for the average person and it will be an "elite" privledge which will get lampooned in the public.
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
This would open the door to other companies selling ID cards. Eventually there would be enough producers of these cards to allow disreputable produces to slip through. A few of these would be discovered thereby reducing the credability of them all. Causing the government to take over.
In short, this is just a step in the road to government issued ID cards.
A single identity card that would allow you to bypass invasive security screening. Because obviously, if you've never done anything wrong in the past, you clearly won't in the future.
I have to agree with all the people who are pointing out that this introduces a single point of failure into any system that honors it, but what's worse is that it seems to ignore the point of security checkpoints, which is not so much to merely identify people as it is to prevent the entry of weapons into a vulnerable area REGARDLESS of their identity.
Just because a person with one of these cards isn't a terrorist at the time the card is issued, doesn't mean they won't become one in the future. There would have to be a way to invalidate the card, which means that these card readers would have to be updated on some semi-frequent basis. (Not to mention that when the terrorist first gets denied at the gate, he will know that the government is on to him.)
Seems pretty unworkable to me.
Your mileage may vary, but mine is constant.
If I pay my money and fill out the application with completely fake information, is it a crime? Why?
If I miss my flight because the card and/or reader fails at the airport, will I be refunded? Why not?
Will the company indemnify me from losses if my fingerprint and card are stolen?
Once stolen, how long until all points in the system relying on this information are closed to my card?
Can an employer lawfully require me to get this card as a condition of employment?
And not for the tinfoil hat security reasons, but because it undermines the ideals of equal justice under the law for all. Rich people should NOT be able to buy preferential security treatment. If the law is "everyone gets their anus searched for bombs", then we all get in the same line and have the same kind of search. Simply having the money to buy an ID card that "proves" you've got a clean anus isn't equal protection under the law, it's preferential treatment for sale.
And the same goes for people who claim that they should have it because they're frequent fliers -- that's just a way of abstracting the fact that you have a lot of money.
Any law should be applied as equally as possible, ESPECIALLY if the law is some national security measure that happens to be a major invasion of your privacy and a general pain in the ass like airport security.
NO special rights for the rich, ESPECIALLY no special security rights for the rich.
Personally I'd fly on Jihad airlines where they put a Koran in the seat back pocket, so you could clutch it too your heart as you stormed the cockpit and gave complimentary box cutters to you upon entry to the plane. There are so many flights, the odds of me being on one that goes down are so slim, its not worth worrying about.
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
And terrorism is not like inner-city gang crime, terrorists won't have a string of prior convictions. Most suicide bombers are not repeat offenders.
Sorry, that's not security. That's an invitation.
2) Frequent waiters buy cards to shorten their wait too.
3) The majority of waiters now have cards
4) Not enough people get screened
5) Screeners no longer alllow card holders a "free ride"
but hey, at least Brill and his investors get rich.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
I fly a couple of times a month and I am always "randomly selected". Every single time. And the reason is that I fly:
This is the profile. Everyone knows this is the profile. Which is why the 9/11 highjackers flew:
...and this is the really nasty bit...First Class. Even fllowing the airlines current policy, there is no way the 9/11 highjackers would be subject to extra searches currently. Because they don't fit the "highjacker profile".
"How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
Okay, fine. What if you don't have a printable finger?
No, I'm not attempting to be facetious. There is a small, yet statistically signifigant percentage of the world's population (IIRC, around 2%) whose fingers just don't produce the patterns of whorls and loops in any usable form. Usually, the skin doesn't form deep enough ridges (result: a blurry, useless smudge.) There was an article carried in the local news a couple of years ago about a woman who was having troubles with the INS because she couldn't be fingerprinted, for just this reason. Also, there are those who have suffered severe burns. Scar tissue doesn't give a usable result, either. Or, what if an applicant is an amputee? I can see a potential loophole here that an ADA lawyer would give his/her left arm to exploit.
Much as I've come to dislike airport security (think you've been embarrassed by the screening process? Try having the underwire in your bra trip the metal detector), I've come to the conclusion that it really is one of the last few great equalizing experiences. Everybody suffers through it, regardless of who you (think you) are, and everybody should. IMN-S-G-D-HO.
Doing my level best to piss off the religious right wing...
Well the reason the New York City councilman James Davis got killed is because certain people were able to bypass security measures. Therefore the gunman was easily able to do just that and then just shot Davis. If we have these cards, something like this may happen again.
Beg to differ. This is NOT about national security, this is about making a quick buck from the gullible. Anyone who DOES take this seriously is a MORON as you so aptly put it.
Paranoia was conceived to make you feel that your reasonable suspicions are unreasonable and unwarranted.
So, upper class white people need special cards to be indentified? I mean I thought that being an old white dude was supposed to be like a special pass in and of itself, I mean, you have to be born into being a rich white dude, or have lots of expensive surgery? Why would these people need an ID to allow them to bypass security that they've already been bypassing?
Seriously, as others have said before the point of a security checkpoint is to check people, a lot of these radical elements use agents that have totally clean records. If a checkpoint is just letting people past because they have some stupid little card then the whole point of having the thing has just gone out the door, I mean it isn't like the checkpoint is some line rfor a ride at Disney World where you can pay an extra $200 (I have no idea how much) to get into a special fast lane thing. The security is there to prevent very bad things from happening.
I say that we label these people as terrorists, raid their corporate offices and send them off to Guantanamo, because this idea compromises national security more than any peace demonstrator or person who calls a spade a spade and a Dubya an idiot.
This is something I've never understood, all this talk about a national ID card, when we could very simply reduce the amount of IDs one carries, and maybe even save some money. How? How about a national driver's license to replace the state ones? The testing to get your license is Federal DOT mandated and regulated, so why not eliminate the middle man(the state) and just have the DOT handle testing and licensing? Use that one ID in turn to replace your SSC, Green Card, and Passport, an voila, less papers to keep tracked of, a national ID card, and perhaps some money saves(unlikely), in one fell swoop.
*--*
Woggle
(lost my password again)
Until the government...starts looking for terrorist instead of weapons...
What difference would that make? Apparently a college sophmore with no terrorist training (apart, I suppose, from what you pick up naturally by being a college freshman) was able to smuggle exactly the sort of items they are looking for through "security" not once, but several times.
So what does it matter what they look for, if they aren't able to find it?
-- MarkusQ
Agreed. The best security I've ever seen is at the Tel Aviv airport. Before passengers can check in, they are subject to an intensive interrogation by two security guards (think military intelligence officers rather than rent-a-cops) who are trained in asking rapid-fire, pointed questions. I was in Jerusalem attending a scientific conference, and had a letter of introduction with me from the organizers (remember this is *leaving* Israel). The set of questions went something like this (my answers are left as an exercise to the reader) --
... and so forth. It was the third degree.
Why were you in Israel?
Where was the conference?
Did you present at the conference?
Do you have the conference program?
Please give it to me.
What did you present?
Is your name in the program?
Please give us your presentation.
Yes, now.
(I spoke for perhaps 2 minutes and was then interrupted.)
Were you invited to the conference?
Why would they invite you?
Are you some kind of expert in this field?
Where did you stay?
How did you know where to stay?
Who arranged your hotel for you?
Where did you get your taxi this morning?
How did you know you could find one there?
They are smart enough to have about as many interrogation stands as there are check-in counters, so there's plenty of bandwidth. Once you pass through security, you walk 10 meters to the counter and talk to an airline employee to check in, rather than the other way around, and the path from interrogation to check-in is controlled. The idea behind the interrogation is to make sure you are legitimate, and have a solid, believable story (I do not for a moment think they cared about my research into an arcane corner of neurobiology). They are checking the person rather than his belongings (although they do this as well). That's security.
American airports don't have security, they have inconveniences to placate the general population into thinking they are secure. I'd much rather the Americans implemented a system like the Israelis have.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
This is Isreal, and you are free to not answer their questions. It's very simple: You DON'T fly. Isreal has a large problem with suicide bombings, and they'll be darned if one happens on their airplanes. If you tell off the security guards, you're in for lots of questions.
People in Isreal are normal people. They just don't like being blown up. Wben you're flying a US airline, you get security-searched, even though they don't have 'evidence'.
I'm sure their security system has been challenged in court, and it's stood up. Isreali airline security is second to none, and the US needs to learn some lessons from them.
If you lived in a country where malls, cafes, and public transportation were blown up on a regular basis by terrorists, you'd be MORE than willing to subject yourself to this kind of interrogation.
People like Sharon get elected, because the citizens are tired of government officials going easy on terrorism.
ya know.. i think this is a brilliant idea.. now.. im all for Freedom and Privacy as primarys and security as a secondary
stay with me.. think about it..
1- its a humane not a computer, not a database that WILL remeber everything for ever, also better at not making mistakes due to "logic"
2- This officer see's 50 ppl a day.. yes its YOUR private info but really.. do you think he cares or will remeber it all? no he wants to get home
3- Military personel.. means hes prolly roated every year or so.. wont get bored, wont get complacent,
4- not a computer.. info cant be sold to marketers.
5- Chain of Command.. how many times has a stupid clerk said.. sorry sir.. the computer says its $99.. well the sign says $0.99 cents.. and the manager cant do shit cause the "computer says"
i think its great.. your incovenanced once.. but it sure beats a computer.
Thoes that would give up there freedom for secuirty deserve neather - Benjamin Franklin
The More Knowledge you have the Luckier you Get- J.R. Ewing
History repeats?
.40-caliber Smith & Wesson handgun into the council chamber undetected, along with an extra four bullets in his socks.
A NYC councilman was shot and killed inside City Hall. How did the "perp" sneak a gun into the seat of city government?
Well, he was himself a councilman...
The two [the shooter and his victim] did not pass through a metal detector, which is not unusual for elected officials, apparently allowing Askew to slip his silver
Why do we keep making the same farking mistakes OVER AND OVER again!?
I'd much rather the Americans implemented a system like the Israelis have.
No you don't.
Figuring out why is left to the reader as an exercise in the blatantly obvious.
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
Yes, exactly. This is the only follow-on poster which figured that out: while most might think the series of questions I described to be an invasion of privacy, the fact of the matter was the interrogators couldn't care less (well, nearly so) about my answers, it was the way in which I answered, the way I responded to their questions that mattered. No notes were taken, no recording was made (to my knowledge). I'm sure that they forgot all about my unremarkable-to-them interview during the next one. And that's just fine by me. Much better than filling out some form which becomes part of a permanent paper or electronic record.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.