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Longhorn Developers @ MSDN
ePIsOdEOnline writes "The official Microsoft Longhorn Developers website went live. Content is filled with information fresh from the PDC, and the host of secrecy swarming Microsoft and its next generation Operating System,
Longhorn"
If you ask me it's a very Good Thing that Microsoft is making it possible to get developer insigt into Longhorn at this point. After all, the OS is not scheduled to be released for several years.
And before we start with the M$ bashing, let's remember that Microsoft can also do some things right, just as the Gnu/Linux community can do some things wrong...
My 2 cents, anyhow.
.: Max Romantschuk
It's a so-called 'guided tour of Longhorn', which consists of no actual imagery, but rather a gigantic step-list of things for you to click on in your Longhorn alpha, to make you go 'ooooh'.
Just brutal. I mean, if its really a 'bet-the-company' strategy, you'd think they'd splash out just a little cash for a Flash or non-ass-looking PPT prez... or even screenshots.... something other than this. Just looks really amateur.
Say what you will, this is one thing Apple clearly understands and Microsoft seems to have no fucking clue about. People want the buzz. Windows fans especially want the buzz so they know WTF they are waiting years for... and I realize its years away and not close to finished... but yet, people are out there toying with these alphas, so they should get on the ball and do a preview page like Apple did for Panther.
(People tell me all the time that Windows 'won' because of 'superior marketing'... I've never believed they were good marketeers.)
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Kind of, The site www.msdn.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003.
Their up time average is an astounding 18 days! Max was 112 days. Looks like they are finally learning something!
Now if you could just install service packs and sucurity patches without rebooting. When they get to that point, Server 2003 will be Enterprise Ready!
Netcraft uptime
Well, I for one care. I'm sure there are plenty of others here too. Some of us actually have jobs based on Windows technologies that provide well for our families. Interesting concept, eh?
In other words, all the code is written in .NET compatible languages (probably C#, because it sucks less, MS' developers (who are C++ old hands) prefer it, etc.), which is *MANAGED*. If explorer crashes, the virtual machine will pick up the pieces.
This is kind of like Sun's JAVA OS, where everything is managed by the JVM, except .NET is fast, 95% as fast as native, and supports far more languages.
Still I guess some parts of the OS will remain in native mode (I'd be impressed if they did redo all Internet Explorer rendering code in .NET), such as device drivers.
It seems the signal to noise ratio of this discussion is terrible. People are bashing the site like there's no tomorrow, without taking into account what it's for.
This is a developer resource. Take this UI guide on the Sidebar. Excellent writing, and finally something which approaches what has made Apple keep the UI edge for all these years.
If an article was posted about the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines I suspect the crowd would be singing to quite a different tune.
Where is even the slightest bit of objectivity these days?
.: Max Romantschuk
Prepare to lose all karma...
Yeah, we're all bashing Longhorn and Microsoft's ways right now... but come 2006, Microsoft will win once again as millions of businesses and tens of millions of homes upgrade to Longhorn. Even the most hardcore geek will have Longhorn on a partition within a year of its release.
We bashed Win98, but ended up using it anyway. Ditto for Win2K and XP.
Sure, our servers will still run un*x, but as long as we keep using Windows at work for "compatibility" and "familiarity"... and a single innocent Windows box at home "just for games", Microsoft will keep winning.
This is not a flame or a troll, but just a prediction based upon the past. I would like to be proven wrong, though...
Don't blame us if you aren't using Active directory with Win2k/XP clients w/Group Policy and SUS.
Microsoft has provided the tools to make software installation, management of desktop settings, and automatic pushing of patches and service packs completely automatic and easy to do.
If you refuse to use the technology, you deserve what you get.
If you use Win9x/ME, you deserve to be shot.
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
from the developer page:
Stop by this section of the LHDC for the latest code samples and tools from Microsoft and the community at large. Even better, if you've built something, put it up for all of us to share!
Share? The largest monopolistic company on the planet encouraging people to share? Does anyone else note a sense of irony?
You complain about a four year old operating system, you list off a bunch of complaints, and then you say you will ignore Longhorn, which fixes all those complaints. With Longhorn, you can even write your own XML-based installation scripts.
.NET, WinFS, Avalon, and the rest of the Longhorn technologies aren't better than crappy old 2k.
I'm just trying to point out that if you're going to wait, wait for something worth waiting for. I personally don't see longhorn adding anything that justifies the expense.
I'm sorry, but you're an idiot if you don't think
Do you honestly think MS is threatened by Apple? I mean, really? When was the last time you saw medium-to-large businesses considering the switch? On the desktop? How about in the server room? Now, for home users, you may have a valid point, but not for businesses.
Let's call it a two-pronged assault: Linux in the server room and Mac OS X on the home PC is going to make management less likely to believe the MS FUD. Unix won't be so scary to them. And if they start to realize that the computers they use at work suck a whole lot more than the iMac their kids use at home, the wheels will start turning. And when their work computers get infested with the latest virus and their kids say, "Don't worry, Dad, we don't need Norton Anti-Virus because we have a Mac," the wheels will turn some more.
Now, whether or not this happens is a matter of speculation. Maybe Apple will move to 15% desktop marketshare and Linux will get 75% on the server. Who knows? But MS doesn't want to see any marketshare erosion and they're going to fight it tooth and nail, which is why they've geared up for this big effort.
My With Longhorn, you can even write your own XML-based installation scripts.
Ok. Well, I can do this on linux today. In fact, I already have done it (I use an XML-based install/update script for a large application I'm developing). But I can even accomplish it with a simple call to rsync. No hidden settings, no scattered dll files. If I want, an application installs all in one directory. rsync that directory, and thats it- applications are updated and/or installed automatically.
Of course, I could also wait 3 years for windows to get to this point.
I'm sorry, but you're an idiot if you don't think .NET, WinFS, Avalon, and the rest of the Longhorn technologies aren't better than crappy old 2k.
I didn't say that they aren't better than 2k. In fact, you even quoted me saying "not worth waiting for". I don't think they are. I'm not totally convinced on .NET, a lot of it is marketing fluff, and it's being controlled by a corperation that will change everything, if it meets their business needs at the time (it's hard to maintain an application when the API is not totally documented and will randomly change).
Avalon has been done (XUL), and is cross-platform. I don't see the point in waiting 3 years for a proprietary version that's less mature.
WinFS is about the most interesting development, but worth the headaches of windows? Probably not. There are similar concepts in development for other OS's anyways.
Speak before you think
Yes you are right .NET is much faster than Java OS.
Ah, finally somebody with some benchmarks.
Link?
From this:
Finally, it is worth noting that Windows executables can be hosted in a window (by default) as well as in the browser.
For Longhorn, desktop executables are the next version of today's Windows Forms client-side apps. On the other hand, XAML and browser-hosted applications represent an evolution of today's client-side programming model to work over the Web. Right now, existing client-side applications can rarely be deployed over the Web. If you want to embed a Windows Forms form into a browser page, you'll get a reduced feature set and have to tweak bits and pieces of your code. With Longhorn, the common application model will let you write one application and deploy it over the Web. However, the final application is Longhorn-specific--very different from a traditional Web application like ASP.NET.
Sigh. I remember when the web was based on open standards...
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"