Slashdot Mirror


Terahertz Scanners See Inside Sealed Packages

opticsorg writes "Japanese scientists have demonstrated a system that detects the presence of illicit drugs that are concealed within an envelope. Tests to date have shown that the imaging system can successfully detect and identify a range of substances including ecstasy (MDMA) and methamphetamine. The researchers are now working with companies to develop a mail screening system that could suit use in post offices and airports."

33 of 647 comments (clear)

  1. Stupidity or Insanity? by corebreech · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As stupid as the war on drugs is, attempting to gain the upper hand through technology is even stupider.

    For instance, thanks to the innumerable advances in creating genetically-engineered plants, we will soon see the day where the characteristics of interest in plants such as cannabis, coca, psilocybin, and opium are capable of being integrated within such ordinary plants as grass, seaweed, ferns, etc. So even if we are able to use technology to prevent drugs from coming into this country from the outside, the obvious solution for organized crime will be to make it so that the drugs can be more easily manufactured from within.

    We've already seen this with methamphetimines. By working to reduce the supply and thereby increase the cost of the more traditional drugs, the market responds with a drug like meth, that is easy and cheap to produce domestically. Look at the consequences of the meth epidemic in America. It's a total disaster.

    Changing the technology isn't the answer. Changing the policy is. Legalize drugs now.

    Who would you rather see selling drugs? Law-abiding citizens in a legalized environment who won't sell to kids? Or criminals in a black-market environment who will?

    That's the question nobody on the prohibition side seems to be able to answer. They admit that they will never be able to rid the world of illegal drugs, yet cannot come to grips with this simple question. If our drug policy is based on what is best for the children, then why haven't we legalized already? Why not start letting communities actually control these controlled substances for a change? When do we learn the lesson of alcohol prohibition? When do we recognize that there is no constitutional basis for the continuation of this goddamn policy?

    1. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by KUHurdler · · Score: 4, Insightful

      <>

      yes... because we all know that no one underage ever gets cigarettes or alcohol. That method works like a charm.

      --
      Fix Your Own TV - RiddledTV.com Avoid the Landfill
    2. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by cwernli · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If our drug policy is based on what is best for the children

      Unfortunately this is not the case, and never has been. Moreover, it doesn't apply to drug policy alone, but about to every policy there is out there.

      Policies are usually made for the benefit of issuer.

      Now before you flame me: yes, I am referring to our regular democracy here. Democracy though is neither perfect, nor for that matter just or nice. It simply gives people choices. (You don't like that policy ? Vote for someone else next time, and see if you like their policy!).

      Democracy is not a state, it's a process. Same thing for all of democracy's output.

    3. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by Evil+Adrian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is true.

      However, there are no gangs of people smuggling alcohol and cigarettes around the country and killing people, at least to my knowledge.

      Less murder is always nice.

      --
      evil adrian
    4. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by shawn(at)fsu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just because it was tested to look for drugs doesn't make it a stupid venture, the end of the article mentions how a second team used the same technology to look for bacterial spores. This technology has almost limitless possibilities other than detecting drugs.

      And for your point about selling to kids which is way off topic to this post

      Who would you rather see selling drugs? Law-abiding citizens in a legalized environment who won't sell to kids? Or criminals in a black-market environment who will?

      First off legalizing drugs wont make it so kids don't get drugs, look at alcohol.

      --
      500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
    5. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by corebreech · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are you serious? Are you actually going to use cigarettes as an example?

      The most deadly and addictive recreational drug there is, and we only just stopped selling the stuff through vending machines!

      Says a lot about our commitment to keeping the truly dangerous drugs away from kids, doesn't it?

      The same applies for alcohol. We don't really enforce these laws. Compare the sentence an adult gets for selling weed to a kid with the slap-on-the-wrist a clerk at the 7-11 gets for failing to ID for an alcohol purchase, despite the enormous disparity in harm between these substances.

      If you're really serious about preventing underage drug use--including the deadliest and most addictive recreational drugs, alcohol and tobacco--you'll legalize the rest of the drugs, put them all on the same shelf, and make the penalties for procuring any of these drugs for the underage very severe.

      Or, you can continue pretending that what we're doing now is working.

    6. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by Evil+Adrian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Tell that to the highway patrolmen that get to inform the families of drunk-driving victims. Not everyone will consume these newly-legal drugs at home (and stay there). They aren't worried about the safety of the people that are already using them.

      Why would the drug-driving victim rate suddenly increase if drugs were legalized? People do (and always will) drive under the influence of drugs and alcohol, drug legalization isn't going to significantly impact that number one way or the other.

      --
      evil adrian
    7. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by pmz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Says a lot about our commitment to keeping the truly dangerous drugs away from kids, doesn't it?

      The government doesn't care about children, it cares about power. The only reason tobbacco, alchohol, coffee, and chocolate aren't controlled substances and illegal is that they were already too large in the economy and backed by people big enough to push the government around.

      One huge positive aspect of legalization is equitable treatment. Right now, the legislation is extremely bigoted in favor of one group of people and totally against another group for only political reasons. In the USA, this should have people up in arms.

    8. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by (trb001) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While I don't pretend to speak for the parent, let me attempt this one...

      It's not so much that drugs have a direct connection with race, more like a roundabout one. Drugs, violence and crime rates are all much higher in the economically poor sections of this country. Because the poor are typically minorities (black, hispanic and immigrants in general), drugs and race are commonly linked together. I don't believe there's been enough data on white/asian poor to show whether or not it's a race issue (I'm sure someone will post a link to some site saying it isn't).

      Anyways, the "not being able to talk about it" comment I'm assuming is a reference to the fact that whenever people in power start talking about racial issues, other than how good a race is doing, they get flamed unless they happen to be that race. Since there aren't a lot of minority representatives in the legislature, it's a difficult topic to approach.

      --trb

    9. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by pmz · · Score: 2, Insightful


      That's because legalization brings everything out into the open for people to deal with it without having to hide in dark alleys. It encourages honesty and realistic thinking regarding these substances. It is the right solution, but so many people are too crippled by fear and bigotry to really do anything about it.

    10. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by GSloop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In other news...

      Senator Jim Inhoffe issued a press release today.

      Why should we legalize drugs when we can *kill* more than a quarter of a million citicizens every year with good old tobacco. We don't need to stinkin' drugs.

      ---
      How many folks do you know that smoke some weed and beat the girlfriend/wife?

      How many folks die from lung cancer from smoking weed?
      ---

      Drugs are legalised. We've just picked a couple of the worst drugs imaginable to legalize. Tobacco and Alcohol are bad drugs. Frankly, I think pot and cocaine are bad too. But to have the jekyl and hyde approach of Tobacco and Alcohol are good, but these others are devil spawn is simply crazy.

      Senator Jim Inhoffe ought to have his head checked if he actually believes in this dichotomy.

      Cheers,
      Greg

    11. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by Kombat · · Score: 2, Insightful
      For example, look at ecstasy. There's countless tales of someone trying it once and then dying from it.

      WRONG. Sorry to yell, but this is a frustratingly persistent myth.

      Ecstasy, or MDMA (methylenedioxymethamphetamine), is an SSRI, like Prozac. An antidepressant. Where Prozac raises your mood by blocking your brain from re-absorbing the seratonin that's already in your system (and thus making your cheerful), Ecstasy takes it a step further and triggers your brain to flush its entire seratonin stores into your system, making you feel even better. The downside to this is that studies have suggested this can have a negative effect on your long-term memory.

      Ecstasy is an extremely benign drug. A fatal dose is roughly 20 times the normal dose. You would have to take an immense amount of Ecstasy to suffer a lethal overdose. So what's with all the stories that claim "Ecstasy kills another raver?"

      These ill-informed claims can be blamed on two things:

      1. Ecstasy's chief side-effect is hyperthermia, or elevated body temperature. When you're on Ecstasy, it is crucial to keep yourself well-hydrated. That's why many ravers are often seen with water bottles. (Frightening side-story: I've heard of people organizing raves at which the water to the washroom faucets is cut off, and the bar sells bottled water. This is extremely dangerous! This is just asking for trouble!) This is one reason why you occassionally hear about a death attributed to Ecstasy - the person didn't hydrate adequately.
      2. Ecstasy is a synthetic, not an organic, drug. That means it has to be produced in a lab. Which is difficult, expensive, and risky. Since it is illegal, producing Ecstasy "properly" like this is very hard. Most people who wish to sell Ecstasy, when faced with this reality, will instead sell some other mix of organic drugs that are much easier to obtain, and market the pills as "Ecstasy." These are often heroin, laced with horse tranquilizers or rat poison. The unsuspecting buyer takes the pills, which he/she thinks are Ecstasy, then dies due to a poor mix of the adultered substitutes. They thought they'd taken E, their friends thought the victim had taken E, they tell the police he took E, the papers chalk up another death to E. In most of the cases in which a death is attributed to Ecstasy, the victim hadn't taken Ecstasy at all, but rather, some other hybrid drug which the seller just told them was E.


      The solution to both these problems is: LEGALIZE IT! If it were legal, it could be producted in a controlled environment, with QA ensuring that the resulting product contained the proper mix of chemicals. They could be sold in stores, in packages like cigarettes, containing warning labels advising the user to take plenty of fluids.
      --
      Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
    12. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Here are some counter points and/or further thoughts.

      BTW, it's the job of the government to protect the people

      Actually it is the goverments job to protect the rights of the people, not the people them selves. This is very easy to confuse so allow me to expound. It is the goverments job to keep me from being physically assaulted, why? becuase it is my right to be able to live and pursue happiness. It is not the goverments job to protect me from myself, although they try. That is why things like maschism are legal.

      From the civil rights aspect, sure, let people get all the drugs they want... it's their choice, it's their life.. right?

      Yes

      Or do we hospitalize them... give them medicine... rehab them... ??? With who's money.. this would costs tens of thousands of dollars per person every time they're found in the street? With my money?

      Indeed we should not pay for people to go into rehab, that is not the government's job. I would be willing to pay to get thier comotose bodies out of the alleys though. Keep in mind this is just a sober up period. Alcohalics hget thier stomachs pumped all the time. It would just take a day or 2 in the hospital then they could be released. Maybe they will OD agian, maybe not. [maybe some kind of limit could be put in place?] But in any case a couple days in the hospital for a few irresponsable people would be far cheaper and less dangerous than continuing the drug war.

      The second issue is the known crime caused by drug addicts.

      Crime would drop with legalized drugs. Drugs would be much cheaper. There are instances of people holding up gas stations for a 6-pack or a cartoon of cigarettes, but not many. What now is very expensive would become a commodity.

      The third issue is the quality of the work force.

      I, for one, am not allowed to drink at work. If I came into work drunk I would probally lose my job. I think that that applies to most people. Recreational weekend use would not affect perfomance durning the week.

      The fourth point, is that sentences for selling to minors would be just as lax as they are now with alcohol and cigarettes.

      So? who cares? Probaly the kids parents, ie it is not your problem. Also punishment has little to do with availablity. For many years my friends favored reefer over beer becuase it was easier to get.

      The fifth and final point, do we want more corporations like "big tobacco" running our lives?

      Big tobacco runs your life? That sucks man. But seriously companies should not be held responsible unless they lie to thier costumers, like big tobacco did. Notice that when some people tried to sue gun companies for wrongful death, that they did not win, gun companies have always been clear about their products.

    13. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by joggle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have the very distinct impression that you are trolling based on your first sentence, "The government doesn't care about children, it (only) cares about power." PLEASE! Do you know any people in the federal or state government? The great majority of them are very lethargic and only care about the benefits they are and will continue receiving. A very few people at the top care about power, which is why they are there (just like any corporation or other large group of individuals). There are thousands of people in the various parts of the government focused solely on the wellfare of children, many of which honestly feel that the best way to keep children off of drugs is to keep it out of their hands through prohibition. Many have doubts about the efficacy of the current solution, but can't bring themselves to believe that there is a better solution. Rather than writing them off as a group of power-hungry, callous people, perhaps you should switch gears and actually try to convince them!

    14. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Wrong. Many studies have shown that school aged kids have a much easier time procuring illegal substances than they do alcohol and tobacco.
      Interviewer: What are the most popular drugs in your school?
      -Student: Pot, Heroin, and Ecstasy I guess.
      Interviewer: What about alcohol and cigarettes?
      -Student: Oh those are around but not nearly as popular. It's just so hard to get beer that most kids don't bother. Mostly they just sneak liquor from their parents liquor cabinets, but really you can't throw much of a party that way. Why risk it with alcohol when you know the pot dealer won't card you?
      So you see, regulating a legal industry is more effective than policing an illegal one. It's been shown time and time again.

      Anecdotal case-in-point: How many schools do you hear about with "drug problems" or "drug epidemics" (answer = many), how about "alcohol problems" or "underage drinking epidemics" (answer = almost none until you include college).
      --

      Operator, give me the number for 911!
    15. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And while we are on the subject of police states (should have included this in the prior post... the preview button is your friend), how about the fact that government says "We can take you at 18 to fight our wars", but "You aren't old enough to drink until 21". Is that anyone elses pet peeve?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    16. Re:Stupidity or Insanity? by WNight · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's my point. But it's also the reason we need truth instead of drug propoganda. If the government thinks kids can get pot they'll tell them that pot kills. They'll also tell them that mixing alcohol and sleeping pills kills, as does drinking cough syrup and mixing alcohol and ibuprofen. Which of these is deadly (or causes organ failure), which is a cheap buzz, and which is a cheap buzz that can cause lasting brain damage?

      Instead we need to tell kids that while for various reasons we don't recommend pot (lack of motivation, obesity, etc) it won't kill you and if fact feels quite nice, so we hope that they'll make safe choices and if they do use it, limit their intake, etc, etc.

      Then we put big bold letters of a box of ibuprofen that taking it with alcohol could kill you (or merely make you end up on dialysis for life), people will respect it.

  2. And... by MImeKillEr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    what about people with prescriptions such as Ritalin or Adderol?

    These are essentially medical meth. Does everyone expect patients to carry their prescriptions (or their prescription bottles) with them at all times? No one I know with ADHD carries their full script bottles - just a couple of pills in a case.

    1. Picture yourself having ADHD, a script for Ritalin, a couple of pills in a pillcase in your luggage.

    2.Picture yourself being pulled from the plane by the Feds for having prescription drugs.

    3. ??

    4. Profit.

    --
    Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
  3. Re:Acid detection? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    you didnt RTFA.

    the reflected terahertz radiation by the molecular content of the letter is measured against known spectral signatures.

    so, yes, it will detect your letters. though right now, it takes 10 minutes per scan, and we all know that is not a workable speed throughput for postal services.

  4. Horray... by Loki_1929 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    More of my tax dollars spent on projects designed to help my government go on 'fishing expiditions' to see whether or not I need to be jailed. I truly don't understand why the youth of this nation is so untrusting of government. After all, the true purpose of all governments is to vet society for undesirables, yes?

    We already put more people in jail than any other country on Earth, proportionately; this apparently isn't enough for some people. When your government starts hunting for reasons to jail you, you know it's gone too far. I once read a very interesting thought on why something like this is done. The author expressed the idea that since governments cannot control totally law-abiding persons (as in moral laws), it must create enough sufficiently complex laws such that no person can possibly go through life without breaking one.

    Ask a lawyer how many laws they've broken by lunchtime, if they wanted to get really technical, and I think you'll find the results extremely interesting.

    --
    -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
  5. Good by Spoing · · Score: 2, Insightful
    While the libertarian side of me would like to leave it up to individuals to make their own decisions on drugs, the impact isn't limited to the individuals who use the drugs and market influences aren't correcting the problems. Drug abuse -- and yes I am focusing on abuse -- leads to a whole host of social and mental health problems.

    (Besides: sober or intoxicated, heavy drug users are seldom fun to be around. They're @ssholes or buddy-buddy scheming @ssholes.)

    While marijuana is a fairly mild drug and it may be OK to legalize it. That said, just because one drug might be a candidate for legalization does not mean that all are. There are some nasty ones out there and a scanning device that can find them is something I very much welcome.

    Who knows; maybe if the supply dries up (ha!), people will vote for drug reform and allow a moderate response instead of the current all-or-nothing one?

    --
    A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    1. Re:Good by CausticWindow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      just because one drug might be a candidate for legalization does not mean that all are

      Actually, it's the other way around. Just because a few drugs are potentially harmful to society, why ban hundreds of totally unrelated substances?

      Most people think "illicit drugs are bad", when in fact "illicit drugs" is just a list undemocraticly compiled by the govnerment from seemingly random rules.

      Here are some "drugs" that you may or may not have heard about; psilocybine, dmt, ibogaine, mescaline, salvinorin, muscimol. Can you explain to me why these drugs should be illegal? Do you think the government can explain this?

      --
      How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
  6. Re:Great invention... by glesga_kiss · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I'm against all illegal drugs.

    Moron. The illegality of most drugs is based on the three R's: (example given is for pot)

    • Religion

      There is no mention of pot in bible, while alcohol (the only legal intoxicating drug) is almost worshipped itself
    • Racism

      "There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others." - Harry Anslinger, 1937 testimony to Congress in support of the Marijuana Tax Act.
    • Revenue

      The main forces behind pots demonification were owners of timber stocks. Hemp (once one of the US's main cash crops) can produce paper far more efficiently than wood, at the loss to the lumber industries. They funded the misinformation films such as "Reefer Madness" as well as applied political lobbying. *

    * it's nice to know (kind-of) that the current government corruption isn't exactly a recent development

    The banning of almost all of them are linked to these. The social/psychological/physical impact is not relevant. Most illegal drugs commonly in use are less harmful than the pollution you breathe in during a stroll down an average city street.

    And, why exactly are you against them? Did the alcohol-company-funded groups get to you early as a child? Don't take their drugs!! Take ours!!

    Back on topic, this thing is a waste of time, except perhaps in prisons. Drugs do not get distributed through the post. Not do they get around on commercial flights, smuggled in condoms etc. Sure, it happens, but it's tip of the iceberg stuff.

    The trade in illegal drugs is the third largest industry in the world. It is liked to organised crime, national security agencies and lot's of other seedy, underhand groups. Do you have any concept about how many "drugs" are consumed every week in the western world? How do you propose to stop this lucrative trade? Impossible. The law of supply and demand dictates it.

    The only solution is total legalisation of most drugs. (with a few obvious exceptions). That way, you remove control of the trade away from the people who are the most undesirable to be in that postion.

    Not only do you break the link with crime (and the gateway effect), you will also save lifes. I'd estimate that 90% of all drug deaths are directly related to the illegality of the drug, and not the drug itself. By far the biggest killer is heroin. The total lack of quality control means that some batches are many times the strength of others, hence the overdose deaths. The expence and availablity of the drug is also what causes the users to inject that crap into their bodys. If opium was much more available, most people would just smoke it instead of injecting. The same is true for MDMA (ecstacy), The vast majority of deaths are down to misinformation (overheating/dehyration) or the fact that the pill wasn't even ecstacy! The only "evidence" that Ecstacy causes any long term damage was recently thrown out when independant researches found out that it wasn't even ecstacy in the original study!

    The drug stuff is a load of lies, like most things that people get told by those in power these days. One other poster suggested that the scientists behind that should try to cure cancer instead. However, the flaw behind that is that there is no money to be made.

  7. Re:Clarification by corebreech · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, of course, I should have made that clearer.

    Alcohol is the only drug you can be addicted to that can kill you when you try to quit.

    More people die from alcohol overdose than do from any other recreational drug, even though alcohol manufacturing is legal and regulated and thus produced without adulteration.

    Alcohol is more intoxicating than heroin, cocaine or marijuana, and hence, causes more death indirectly through accidents and violence.

    And then of course there are the long-term health consequences, which kill more people than any other drug out there save tobacco.

  8. Easy to fool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Once one knows how much power the device is putting out, one can tell just how deep it will scan right?

    Just fill a package with a "legal" substance, to a depth just greater than the scanner will read...

    Put the illegal substance within... ... if this works, then basically they've just made things easier for the drug smugglers... Now they don't have to fuck around with envelopes... They can ship large containers again :!

  9. Cost for scanner: $Megabucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Cost for foil wrapper -- which COMPLETELY BLOCKS radiation at terahertz wavelengths: $.01

  10. Re:Privacy by GSloop · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think the concern is this...

    Once you have the ability to determine what the contents are, what's to stop some zelous person from expanding the "hit" list to include whatever moral crucade that person is on now?

    We'll only use this xray vision to look through your house to see if you're growing pot. We wouldn't use it to view your private behavior and use the things we found out to blackmail you.

    Evidence gathered on you doesn't have to appear in court to get you jailed/imprisoned.

    I can gather loose ends about you through illegal searches/surveillance and find the right string to pull. Then I "loose" the initial "illegal" evidence gathered through non-legal means, and pull the right strings the first time but via legal means this time. You'll never know (and never prove) we went on our initial fishing expidition illegally, just that we had this uncanny instinct to know EXACTLY where to probe.

    Bang - you're in trouble.

    The greater point here, is the more perview of your personal life you give the gvmt, the more they have the opportunity to use it to scrutinize your life and oppress you when it's convienient. No one is completely law abiding - even if you try.

    Cheers,
    Greg

  11. Drugs are bad, MmmmKay by fordm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    However, drug prohibition is much, much worse. This about this: For what it costs to imprison a single drug offender, we could be paying a teacher to teach 25-30 kids. Builds schools, not jails. Help people with addiction problems. Prison is very expensive and it only goes after the symptoms of the problem. For many people, they think they are protecting their children. Yet, if their child fell from the straight and narrow, would they want them imprisoned and have their lives ruined with a criminal record, or would they want to get them help? Drug prohibition has terrible social costs. Much more so than the dangerous drugs themselves. http://www.teachersagainstprohibition.org/ http://www.leap.cc http://www.perdl.com

    1. Re:Drugs are bad, MmmmKay by fishbowl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "For what it costs to imprison a single drug offender, we could be paying a teacher to teach 25-30 kids. Builds schools, not jails."

      Well, teachers and schoolhouse builders didn't figure out a way to turn the whole dope thing into a big pork barrel for lawmakers, did they? Police and jailhouse builders did. If they're so smart, why the hell don't they find themselves in positions of power? EVER?

      "Yet, if their child fell from the straight and narrow, would they want them imprisoned and have their lives ruined with a criminal record"

      I think you would be shocked at how many people answer "yes" to that question.

      The truth is, drug prohibition enjoys widespread support from the American people, significant voices of opposition notwithstanding. The counterculture folks like to omit that part. You might poll your peer group, and get an overwhelming impression that the "war on drugs" is an unmitigated disaster. Yet, on the whole, "we" tend to regard it as a success.

      I think that trying to fight it is a mistake. A better approach would be to lobby to have Alcohol classified as a Schedule II controlled substance (it has medical uses) and Nicotine classified as Schedule I. It would probably be a lot easier to do that than to legalize marijuana or whatever. That's what it will take to get people to start to understand what a mistake the war on drugs is. Put alcohol on schedule 2, and the backlash against its prohibition will force the whole house of cards down.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  12. Re:You're exactly right by mcflaherty · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why isn't marijuana legal? Because the beer companies and drug companies want to keep it that way. Therefore they pad the wallets of Congress. Same with hemp except its the cotton industry which pretty much keeps hemp from being legal.

    I agree with you, but also want to add:
    1. Racism. Marijuana/Opium were the intoxicants of the poorest of the poor in the early 20th century. This included Americans of African, Asian, and Mexican descent. The use of these plants became to be seen as a low class, non WASP activity. As such, it was frowned upon.

    2. Taxation. While it is possible to brew your own supply of ale, and distill your own liqour, its would be difficult for most of us to do this to satisfy all of our needs. And the sale of that product is easily taxable. Yet any drug we can (gosh) grow in our backyard makes it significantly harder to collect on.

    --
    -- I am become sig, destroyer of posts.
  13. Most deadly and addictive? by blitz487 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It takes 30-50 years for cigarettes to kill you. At a pack a day, that's at least 200,000 cigarettes. If a poison takes 200,000 doses to kill you, it is hardly the 'most deadly'. As for 'most addictive', I think watching someone going through heroin withdrawal would convince one that cigarettes are not anywhere near being 'most addictive'.

  14. Re:All I have to say... by Eskarel · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Well this might be viable except that all that "cheaper" is money going to someone, usually someone in government.

    The way I see it is we're going to get decriminalization which is worse because the only way to get it will still be through the criminal scum bags which currently sell it(rather than the corporate scum bags who could sell it if it were legal). Because of this, drugs will continue to fund crime and do all of the horrible things they do now, except that all of the people who are currently massively anti-drugs(read the people making money off the war on drugs) will be able to say, look, we tried it your way and it didn't work", then we'll be back to the same old garbage.

  15. Re:Marijuana Does Not Cause Reckless Driving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    As has been pointed out, the argument that drugs should be kept illegal because of what it might mean on the roads applies as well--if not more so--to alcohol

    This is really the point isn't it? If you are going to make more laws to keep pot illegal use the same standards as for other substances. Too many of the current arguments ignore that alcohol is often the same or worse than pot in a lot of ways:

    • Gateway drug - Study xyz shows that people who smoke pot are "n" times more likely to do harder drugs. Yeah, so? Showing a correlation is NOT the same as showing cause. I'd like to see a comparison for people who consume alcohol or cigarettes. I bet both groups are more likely to get into drugs than health conscious people who do neither. And could it be that it is more of a commentary on personality than on pot itself? IE: Could it be that the type of person who is willing to risk breaking the law and their health by smoking pot may just possibly be more likely to try other illegal substances and abuse their body other ways?
    • Health Risk - One joint is the equivalent of 10 cigarettes as far as harmful chemicals. Yeah, that's bad. But a large percentage of the smokers I know smoke one or even two packs of cigarettes per day. Of the pot smokers I know, none smoke 4 joints a day (equivalent to 2 packs based on the 10:1 ratio.)
    • Danger on the road - Stoned drivers are a risk to all of us and our children.Well duh! You may be able to argue that you are a better driver stoned than drunk. But you are an idiot if you argue you are a better driver stoned than clear headed. People who are stoned tend to over-estimate their impairment. In other words they tend to believe they are less able to function than they actually are. Drinkers tend to under-estimate their impairment.
      Don't get me wrong... I think driving while under the influence of any mind-altering drug (including alcohol) is a BAD idea. But it shouldn't make pot illegal any more than it does liquor.
    • An Escape drug - It's used as an escape instead of dealing with problems. This retards emotional growth. This one seems like one of the lamest reasons so far. You can say the same of any drug or any type of addiction. Lets move on.
    • Promotes Violence and Drug Cartel - Sales of pot are responsible for gangs and violence and finance guerrilla fighters who kill kids. (If you've seen the commercials you know what I'm talking about.) Ok, hard to deny some of that is going on. But if it were legalized, how fast do you think the big cigarette companies would be to get into the market? And if it wasn't illegal, how many people would grow it at home? The lesson (taught by prohibition of alcohol decades ago ) is that the criminal element and smuggling comes from making illegal a substance the populace wants. Without the artificial scarcity prices would fall and the monetary incentive to traffic would decrease.
    • It's Addictive - Drug addiction is a growing problem in the US. Did you notice the words "drug addiction" and not "marijuana addiction"? Watch how often commercials or government officials use the two interchangeably.
      People can become addicted to anything if it fills some type of emotional need... or lets them escape from their problems (even by just distracting them from their problems.) So, I wouldn't be surprised if there are people out there emotionally depende nt on pot. But again, you'd have to outlaw beer using that argument. And from what I've seen most people find pot a lot easier to quit than cigarettes.

    So, in summary, I think pot is bad for you, and impairs your ability to drive. I think people use it to escape and that (as long as it remains illegal) it encourages illegal activity and violence related to the trade (not use) of pot. I suspect it probably can be addictive to some people. BUT in the end, I suspect that