iPod Media Reader Slowness

gsfprez writes "According to an official statement by Belkin over at iPodlounge, the reason it takes 22 minutes to transfer a few pictures from your digital SLR's CF card to your iPod with their $99 iPod Media Reader is that, well, that's how they designed it. They wanted to 'address the needs of the largest percentage of owners of digital cameras and iPods,' because -- and let's be honest -- when you want to transfer 128 megs of pictures from your $200 digital camera, you think '$600 worth of iPod and media reader please!,' and not $14 flash readers." Belkin did say they are trying to work out a solution with Apple, perhaps in the iPod firmware, but it seems the problem may be with the design of the reader itself.

Comments

Is there a limit on the cards themselves?

[xanderwilson]

What's the fastest media reader out there? Are there firewire SD readers, etc, and are they much faster than their USB 1 counterparts?

Alex.

Re:Is there a limit on the cards themselves?

[shamino0]

Firewire is MUCH faster than USB1

But does it matter for a flash card reader?

If the speed of reading/writing CF cards is slower than 12Mbps, then a FW reader will be just as slow as a USB reader.

Re:Is there a limit on the cards themselves?

[gsfprez]

no.

there are already CF Firewire adaptors out there.. CF can go really fast...

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/mediacompare/

this shows that moost cards can write around 2MB/sec and read almost twice that speed...

its an issue with the reader that its only going 300kb/sec... as even the cheapest cards can go about 2000kb/sec.

Re:Is there a limit on the cards themselves?

[shamino0]

I understand that a 300kbps reader is very slow, and is nowhere near the speed capability of CF. But that's still a lot less than USB's 12Mbps rate (about 1.5MB/s)

My point is simply that if the card reader's speed is under 12Mbps, then it won't matter if the interface is FireWire or USB.

If the reader's speed is faster, of course, then the choice of interface probably will make a difference.

22 Minutes?!

[commodoresloat]

That's nothing; you should try copying a 17M file....

*ducks*

I guess I don't get it.

[IM6100]

The sarcasm is so layered and the syntax is so awkward that I'm not sure what we're supposed to be upset with regarding this.

What does the Submitter mean. Can somebody translate it for me?

Re:I guess I don't get it.

[gsfprez]

no, its not poorly written - that's exactly what i said. And Belkin is "looking into it" to see if they can get a little more more speed, but they are certianly not saying that they are going to give the real users of this devices what they want - firweire speeds - like as are physically possible with a FireWire port.

If you RTFA, you'd see that the issue is that this $99 reader underperforms a $14 USB adaptor - and the reason why is that Belkin assumes that "typical consumers using a 128 meg card" are their audience. They stated that they chose price/performance and got a card reader that goes 300kb/sec, which is "fast enough" for their supposed target audience of average users.

The point is, typical consumers with cheap cameras and small CF cards are NOT not in any way the target audience for a $99 card reader to plug into a $300+ iPod when their camera doesn't cost anywhere near that range - and Belkin is just dumb to think that they are.

High-end geek pros with 512m and larger CF/Microdrive cards with cash to burn are the REAL target audience, and if you're going to give them a reader than dumps files to a 40 gig iPod, then you better make it a fast reader - because they aren't going to want the piece of shit if it only goes 300kb/sec.

I know 3 people - all of them have digital SLR owners that bought it thinking "ha, i no longer need to drag my powerbook with me to dump out picts from my 512 cards, i can just use this with my iPod".

Well, it turns out that each of these users says this thing is useless to them because its way too slow to be useable. Its also too big, and they couldn't give a shit less about SD and other card formats. All digital SLR's use CF.

so - without trying to write 5 paragrpahs explaining wtf the Belkin card reader is for the folks that care that already know - i simply pointed out that Belkin's excuse for the shitty performance of their card reader (which will not get much speed increase from any software updates by apple because the issue is with the card reader, not the iPod software) is that they thought that their buyers were going to be "average consumers'... which is very bad market research... and means that Belkin is lamer than almost everyone that's seen this device and thinking of who it was for - high-end users with big CF cards that want speed.

No one "average" gives a shit to spend $100 to dump picts from their cheap $200 cameras from their tiny little $20 128 meg CF cards to their $300+ iPods.

And, you must be new, so let me fill you in... this is news for nerds. If you "don't get why this is news" you may want to look into the mirror and realize that you're not one.

Son of a bitch...

[windex82]

..the "ive been copying files in/with "X" for 17 minutes" troll got his own story!

belkin and macs...

[irving47]

Belkin might make some spiffy hardware, but their commitment to Mac OS X is questionable. Ask anyone who's had a Belkin USB-DB9 Serial adapter for the last three YEARS and Belkin just won't get off their asses and release any drivers for it. They flat out lied to me on the Macworld show floor last January...

Whats the big deal?

[neverkevin]

I don't see what the big deal is? This add-on isn't a "pro" add-on. Transfering 128megs in 6 mins sounds reasonable to me, that was about how long it takes to transfer the data off via the USB on my camera. It is a $100 add-on, what did you expect?

Re:Whats the big deal?

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Ok, enough. I'm in the market for this, even after reading your muddled commentary. I spent $700 for my camera, because I like the features that that quality of camera added. Which means, incidentally, that I fill up my CF cards faster than a cheap camera, because my pics tend to be higher res, and therefore the pics take more memory.

So--when I travel to distant and exotic lands on vacations of a few weeks, I would still much rather take an iPod with this adapter and dump photos from a 256M card, than have to take an iBook and find places to charge it.

If it means that every 2-3 days, when I've filled up a 256M card, that it takes me 30 mins to upload to my iPod--yeah, I'm happy to do it. And I'll buy the adapter to do it with. I would still rather do that than carry my iBook through the hinterlands of Russia and Turkey.

So get over your damn self. Sorry the product didn't work for you. I still think it'll work for some people. Reporting the facts w/o sarcasm would have made for a better case. As it is, it seems like you're bent on convincing everyone else that this product will also suck for them, regardless if their needs are not your own.

that price comparison is unfair

[Snuffub]

The whole point of the belkin reader is that you dont need a computer (which the $14 flash reader requires) so if im shooting with my digital camera out somewhere where I dont have a laptop handy I dont have to stop taking pictures when my card fills up.

Dudes Relax

[weepingwillow]

Most people who have 1 gig cards have at least two. While your downloading the one you just filled up and can be shooting with the empty one.

As most programmers/developers know it is hard to balance the needs of ones users. For some the speed issue is a big deal, for most it is a slight inconvenience. If you have an iPod spending $100 for the convenience of a digital wallet is a lot better then spending another $600 and a dedicated/fast digital wallet. But is you have money to burn and you can't figure out what to do with your self for an hour (read a book, talk to someone) while you wait, then maybe this is not the product for you.

Tony

iPod woes

[nacturation]

I think the submitter had this in mind:

I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you iPod fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of an iPod (30GB) for about 22 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to my iPod. 22 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this iPod, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

In addition, during this file transfer, songs will not play. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even the backlight is straining to keep up as I type this.

I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on this iPod, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen an iPod that has run faster than other music players, despite the iPod's faster chip architecture. My Vic 20 with 16KB of ram runs faster than this iPod at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the iPod is a "superior" music player.

iPod addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use an iPod over other faster, cheaper, more stable players.

How I plan to use it.

[node 3]

Assuming I buy one, this is how I plan to use it.

I'll have two cheap memory cards (either 128MB or 256MB), and when I fill one, I'll put it into the iPod adaptor and start the transfer while using the other card in my camera. That should be about 10 minutes to load a full 256MB card. I don't expect I will fill the other 256MB card that fast (if I do, then I *really* worry about how fast I'll fill my computer's HD at over 1GB/hour!).

The real benefit here is I can take my camera on vacation, or just out and about, and not have to carry around my notebook. This is a *huge* benefit. Couple that with only needing two memory cards (even two 128MB cards will be enough), and this is looking real handy *and* cost saving (I already have an iPod).

The drawbacks? It's not instantaneous and it takes batteries. Not a huge problem, and if it's something that can be done better, someone will. If not, I'm still better off than I was before.

I don't understand the sarcasm of the story's submitter. Sounds like the guy has issues. I bet he doesn't have an iPod or he'd see that Belkin has put to market something that can add to the utility of his iPod, if he wants it. If he doesn't want it, he's no worse off than he was before and he still has an iPod.

Re:How I plan to use it.

[node 3]

I took "Firewire speeds" to mean the speed the iPod will sync the photos to the computer. There's no flash memory fast enough to keep up with FireWire (that I'm aware of). Do you expect the USB 2.0 flash drives to transfer data at 480mbps?

There's no way the biggest audience is the pro user. The pool of potential buyers are iPod owners who also own digital cameras and have a Mac. The device has reduced battery life when used with a microdrive and doesn't even support MemoryStick Pro. It's clearly not targeted at the pro market, but the iLife consumer. Belkin is offering them, for $100, the ability to completely stop worrying about running out of flash memory at their friend's birthday party, at the beach, on the slopes, etc.

You have the tone of someone who never really considered buying one, but enjoys taking arms against Evil Corporations(tm). If you were a pro who thought this was a pro quality device, you'd just pass up on it after seeing its limitations and go buy another 3GB microdrive. If you were the target consumer, you'd not really complain because for it's lack of speed, it's still better than what you already have, and it might even be worth $100 to you. If you are a "prosumer", well you should be used to the frustration of prosumer digicam equipment which is rarely pro quality or consumer priced.

You didn't submit a review of the device giving it the thumbs down for speed, you spat venom at Belkin and did it in such a way that leaves the reader confused about almost everything except the fact that you seem to be upset.

Check out Lyra, Archos for built-in CF support and

[meehawl]

I work as a photojournalist at a local newspaper, just about to switch to digital photography. It would be great to have a small multipurpose device to backup a compact flash card but ~22 minutes for a 512MB card.

Using an extra $100 under-performing clunky gadget to send data to a device with no image viewing seems like a losing proposition. I like the look of the new Lyra ($400) and Archos ($600... too rich for me!). Both seem to have CF built-in, and support other media with adapters. Both feature full-colour screens for instant viewing. And of course, they all also play mp3s and videos.

However, they don't seem to support RAW format, so you may have to check out this list of photo/video handhelds. The FlashTrax is listed as supporting RAW, and comes with 30GB (80Gb available) built-in for $500 (80GB is $700).

Why I'm not gonna buy one (or an iPod for that mat

[Cleetus Freem]

I am a professional photographer who shoots digital and I am often in remote/poor areas. I either have to lug a laptop (thief magnet) along in a backpack or carry a digital wallet (MindStor 20gb) that is old and from a company that went out of business.
I was real excited about this reader because it was the one thing keeping me from buying an iPod. This slowness, however, is a deal killer for me. I have heaps of flash cards but I still like to back everything up as soon as a card fills (and I don't use huge cards...too risky to put so much in one place).
My point? I'm disappointed. I WANT to buy an iPod...I know someone can make a card reader that is fast (enough) and cheaper than $99...Heck, the reader that works with my desktop cost $19 and is plenty fast. What is so hard about this? *sigh*

"My Issue" is bait and switch

[gsfprez]

This device is a "firewire device", yet it operates at slower than USB 1 speeds.

You wouldn't put up with that if it was a USB 2 device operating at 300 kbps, would you?

On the Apple Store's webpage, it clearly and openly says..

"Using software support that's built into your iPod (iPod software version 2.1 or later), transfer your pictures quickly via FireWire technology and you're ready to start shooting again. "

A reasonable person would assume that such a device would operate at such speeds. Or do we all quickly forget the 1st gen pre-Oxford 911 based IDE hard drive cases that were horribly slow and never mentioned that they couldn't possibly give you back even the the bandwidth of IDE, let alone Firewire. MacAlly got hammered in the press and by their customers over that whole debachle - as well they should have.

A reasonable person purchasing this product would assume that "transferring pictures quickly via Firewire" would not mean - "transfers slower than USB 1 devices".

"My issue" is that this $99 "Firewire technology" reader gets its ass handed to it by a $14 USB 1 device. That's unreasonable.

If they (Belkin and Apple on their store page) were to point out "while this uses Firewire, it does not transfer ANYWHERE near Firewire speeds, and in fact, its slower than USB 1", then there would be no "issue"

Re:"My Issue" is bait and switch

[neverkevin]

Well, to be fair it isn't bait and switch, their advertizing is just misleading. They say it is quick (which is relative) and it uses firewire but they don't quote any actual speeds (hell, their website says it not even for sale yet). It is a good thing most decent stores have a 30 day return policy so you are not stuck with hardware that doesn't live up to expectations.

Your 'issue'

[thatguywhoiam]

This device is a "firewire device", yet it operates at slower than USB 1 speeds.... rant rant rant rant

Just chill out for a sec and listen.

Yes, the iPod,/i> is a FireWire device. The card-reader is NOT. The issue is not FireWire. It has nothing whatsoever to do with FireWire. It has to do with how Belkin has implemented this card-reading tech.

I mean, it sounds a tad slow to me too, but a 128MB card in 6 minutes.. on a portable device that has an 8-hour battery.. is not a big deal. It's still way more convenient than lugging around a laptop.

By the way, it sounds like you've got an axe to grind about FireWire though. I'll give you a bit of advice; its okay to hate a plug. The plug doesn't hate you. Move on to other plugs if you hate that one.

Just wait...

[technopinion]

$300 full-speed "pro" version coming in 5-4-3-2-1

Yes, I'm being sarcastic...

Parallel print adaptor as well

[SengirV]

I have an HP laser printer and I purchased thier piece of garbage Parallel to USB printer adaptor. The thing was very buggy for OS 9, and they haven't done shit with OS X. Almost as bad as UMAX and their horrible scanners.