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Deconstructing the Patriot Act PR Campaign

Aaron writes "The Center for Democracy and Technology offers up an interesting point for point rebuttal to the the claims made via the 'rah-rah-esque' DOJ's website, part of the PR campaign (including Ashcroft speaking tours) to convince the public the Act is good for them. I think this Broadband Reports article also brings up a good point: among the groups attacking the Act, why do so few of them bring up Echelon? It already gives the government much of the surveillance ability they claim they're lacking, and without congressional oversight. The UN this year even launched an investigation into the use of the system to spy on UN diplomats without much fanfare."

9 of 533 comments (clear)

  1. Ben Franklin quote by batura · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Last night on the West Wing, there was an inspiring quote from Benjamin Franklin:

    "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. "

    This came to mind earlier today when I walked past an ACLU table on campus. They were gathering signatures for a petition against the "Patriot" Act. I'm glad someone is fighting for my freedom.

    1. Re:Ben Franklin quote by smack_attack · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They were gathering signatures for a petition against the "Patriot" Act.

      Did you sign it?

  2. Re:My take by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All the privately held guns in the US couldn't stop a military attack by the federal government, if the government really were so inclined to attack its own citizens.

    Shrug. The privately-held guns in Iraq seem to be doing a reasonable job.

  3. for all those in support of the unPatriot Act by d0ggi3 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Constitutionally Institutionalized

    I am the unpatriot,
    for not standing behind
    the man blind.
    You are the patriot,
    for standing in line
    no questions in mind.

  4. Re:My take by cgranade · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He was saying, don't let the gov't take my gun because I may need it to protect myself from intruders or even the gov't.
    Why would you think that anyone would need to protect themselves from the gov't? Could it be because of the threat of tyranny? Let's turn this around, shall we? Couldn't this act be the very sort of thing that you claim he was talking about?

    You can quote dead white men all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that in the past two hundred odd years society has changed significantly and a single individual's ability to wreak widespread havoc has been increased million-fold.
    First thing. 19 people killed 3,000 people. This is 157.89473684210526315789473684211 people killed per killer. If we assume that your statement about a millionfold is correct, then in Franklin's day, the same killer could have killed about 0.00015789 people. That is, no one could be killed unless 6,333 other people worked together. This is obviously wrong. There were murders without mobs of 6,333 people in the past. OK, so there may be an increase, but not as much as it may seem, I would hazard. Furthermore, if we look at the number of deaths relative to the size of the population, it would likely be lower. Indeed, on 9-11, only one in one hundered thousand people living in America died. More died in car crashes, more died from the flu, more died from alcohol than died on 9/11. Yes, 9/11 was a horrible thing, but let's keep perspective, too. For an example of perspective, consider that anywhere from 7784 to 9596 Iraqi civilians were killed by US troops since the War in Iraq started (source). Given this, how do you think that the Iraqi people should react? I leave you with these thoughts.

    --

    #define DRM chmod 000

  5. Public Image And The Government by Valen0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Bush Administration seems to be having public relations trouble. Besides the creation of LifeAndLiberty.Gov, the administration has also created Freedom.Gov, a site dedicated to glorifying Operation Iraqi Freedom.

    I believe that the creation of these sites indicates that the Bush Administration is taking a new approach to their critics. Instead of answering their critics directly, the administration is using websites to bypass them and sell their propaganda to the American Public. By wrapping their issues in pseudo patriotism, they believe that the average American will overlook the opposition and support the administration because it is the "American thing to do".

    I also believe that the administration is starting to see opposition in Congress. On the LifeAndLiberty.Gov site, there are two sections dedicated to Congressional Opposition. I believe this indicates that the PATRIOT Act is starting to see more criticism from Congress.

    --
    -Valen
  6. Point not made by A+non+moose+cow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sorry if I just don't get it, but I did not really see any mention of anything that actually refuted any of the DOJ claims.

    All I see is a bunch of clarification of the points that would not have been appropriate to mention at a press conference (the likes of which the soundbytes were taken from).

    I also notice that none of the new powers can simply be used willy-nilly. They all require the permission of a judge (who may well interpret the warrant request as, well, unwarranted).

  7. Re:How about one of the most compelling arguments by Qzukk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm a patriot, and I support your right to say what you believe and your post's parent's right to say what they believe.

    I also support my own right to say what a load of crap this all is. If you kill people, you commit a crime. If you commit a crime, you are caught. If you are caught, you are put through a trial. If you are found guilty, you are punished. This is The Way Things Worked around here for over two centuries. It works quite well, and does a fair job of preventing innocent people from going to jail, and making sure that I don't go to jail because some cop is having a bad day because he got two fewer sprinkles than his buddy on his morning doughnut and decides to take it out on some random guy.

    And then we had Guantanamo. Trial? Guilt? Well, we can assume they had one, and weren't just there because they cut some FBI agent off in traffic that morning. Or maybe they forgot to pay the corrupt cop their protection fee? Yeah, you know, corruption, that thing that humans do because they are not perfect and they are corruptible. Even the cops. Even the FBI. Throwing foreign people into camps like that made me afraid to leave the country. Imagine if another country started treating American citizens like that! If that wasn't bad enough, throw in secret "detentions" of citizens. Citizens. Yes, that guy at Intel who gave money to the wrong party? He was a Citizen of the United States. And he was "detained" in jail for weeks without being charged or tried. No access to a lawyer. Welcome to America, your citizenship means NOTHING now.

    We don't have to leave our own country to go hunt monsters. We have them right here, destroying what people fought and died for, the right to call oneself American, with privileges and rights as an American.

    Are you still all right with your pretty little Patriot Act? Well, how would you feel when you've been in solitary confinement for two weeks, without even been told what you did wrong. "I'm a good person, I'd never be arrested" you say. Sure. And all those people found Innocent by a jury just happend to get away? Every last one of them "beat" the legal system? They're all actually guilty as hell, they just used their eeevil Satan-powered witchcraft to beguile the minds of the jurors?

    Or maybe errors happen. Man, it would really suck to be stripped of your citizenship and executed for being a terrorist, while elsewhere some guy is scratching your SSN off a list of SSNs they bought off the internet. But no, you get no public trial, you get no defense lawyer, if you're lucky you get told what you're going to be tried for, if these "secret trials" are trials at all, and not just three ring circuses.

    So yeah. The US has some serious problems right now, and the Patriot Act is merely the tip of the iceburg.

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  8. For everyone who wants to demonize Ashcroft by SensitiveMale · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't forget that the Patriot Act passed both houses of Congress. By a wide margin.

    So instead of demonizing the man in charge of prosecuting our nation's laws why not blame your representative in congress for passing it?