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China Detains Internet Essayist for Subversion
romcabrera writes: "Reuters reports that 'Chinese authorities have detained a civil servant, whose essays are banned by Beijing on the Internet, on charges of subversion'.
According to the article, China has created a special Internet Police Force which 'blocks some foreign sites and shuts down domestic sites posting politically incorrect fare'."
... the internet is growing faster than the policeforce. In China or at home...
this guy should have used freenet.
This is sad to hear, being someone who has traveled to China several times in the past ten years it has been my experience that China has been very slowly opening up and becoming freer country. This saddens me deeply considering the progress that has been slowly made since Tienanmen Square. The internet still proves to be something that the Government is very sensitive about. Luckily there are many American Corporations who seem more than happy to help continue the cycle of information opression.
Something intelligent here.
And to keep this on-topic:
God bless the America that has detailed and tortured hundreds in Guantanamo bay on 'charges' of subversion and terrorism. Not that any of these charges have, or are likely to be, presented in any court. Ever.
China is open and transparent in comparison.
Also note that the Federal Reserve today announced that China had not been manipulating its currency against the US. Also note that imports (services as well as physical products) grew less than 0.1% on the recent GDP figures despite the US growing 7.2% SA annualised. China is not the source of your problems despite them being used as a scapegoat by lazy politicians who are not willing to clean up at home.
-- Alchohol is a hard drug. Cannabis is a soft drug.
Even in a free country where people are afraid to speak anonymously speech is curtailed...if not by the government but by the screaming mob.
We live in a country now where people who criticize the war are called traitors and put in government databases. Where visitors to our country are fingerprinted without suspicion and where people are held without charges for months at a time. Where the label of terrorist is slung around with a casualness unknown 5 years ago.
Our politics has been poisoned and this poison is eating away at our republic.
Sure China isnt free but Chinese have hope for the future all we have is fear.
Good effin' luck on that one, too.
You can't attack them into becoming a democracy.
You can't sanction them into it.
You can only start by persuading the younger members of the political party and wait for the old hardliners to die off. Befriend the country, help it grow on the international market, and be very vocal about it treating its people better. Don't go beating your chest over it, because then they'll just shoot a hundred prisoners right in front of your diplomats to prove a point.
--
what did this guy REALLY do? I mean, this is Slashdot. You can't exactly expect biased reporting. Especially when it's reporting on news reported by a biased Western news source! What exactly did this guy write? What else is he involved in? Who does he work for?
I just can't take this very seriously. It reeks too severely of "look at how evil our rival government is!" propaganda.
The phrase "give me liberty or give me death" makes us feel warm inside, but when Dick Chaney says on record that when the next attack comes, Americans should expect to see their civil liberties suspended, no one even notices it.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
"While I'm certainly no Patriot Act supporter, things like this tend to add a little perspective to a lot of overheated rhetoric, no?"
Indeed they do. They show just how bad tyranny can become, and how desperately unjust a government can become, quickly, if the tyranny is suffered by its people.
Your argument helps make the case for people making a continual effort to keep government in check. China since Mao is not as horrible as Russia was under Stalin, but they are dealing with many of the same problems in the same way.
The regime enjoys a great deal of support from people in China, though. Until their government can no longer provide them with credible evidence of progress and prosperity, there probably isn't anything to do. If you think a political issue is worthy to kill or die for, then by all means you should kill or die for it. But that also means you must be willing to accept the consequences. Be a Chinese dissident (or do ANYTHING that isn't expressly prescribed by the party?) well, you accept the consequences of imprisonment and/or death when you do that. Hopefully your death will not go unnoticed by others, and your sacrifice will instigate some action. Probably not though, there's a lot of inertia over there, and a whole hell of a lot of people in China think everything is just hunky dory.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Until you've seen the face of a person terrified at the idea of meeting any police, or a person shaking after getting a ticket, or a person afraid to talk to anyone in government, then you should talk.
We are free. We are very free. You can walk up to the White House and picket it. You can drive your truck with a rifle in the back. You can say what you want on the Internet. You can read the books you want.
Even if another terrorist attack occurs, do you think they're going to take these liberties away? No. The government won't. In fact, they can't. Because people like myself speak up and let people like you know what is going on. Because people like myself are armed and watching.
Our founding fathers knew what they were doing a hell of a lot better than you give them credit for.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
Even if another terrorist attack occurs, do you think they're going to take these liberties away? No. The government won't. In fact, they can't. Because people like myself speak up and let people like you know what is going on. Because people like myself are armed and watching.
And yet, we have the PATRIOT ACT, and the threat of the PATRIOT ACT II, and the DMCA, and the TCA, to name a few.
#define DRM chmod 000
This is why American protestors really have no idea how good they have it.
That is such a red herring.
What does that have to do with anything related to american protests?
You shouldn't judge our state (The USA) based on the evils of another but on the principles it is straying from.
There are many thing we can do to change China, suspending aid, trade and other things for one.
War isn't the only solution to a disagreement and protesters aren't really stupid just because they have it "better" than people in other places. If anything, they know that it's time change things.
When the next terrorist act happens (and it's just a matter of time right?) we will lose everything we have worked for. Terrorists and our leaders have wanted to change america forever, they have.
Just look for a house without an american flag.
Don't forget that the most dangerous burka is the one you don't know you wear.
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
God Bless America, with the worst crime levels in the first world
Except for Sweden, New Zealand and Denmark. In fact, the US has about an average per capita crime rate as the rest of the world, according to the UN
God Bless America, where "democracy" means a rich, white male as President
Who serves by the will of the population, is limited in the length of term and whose powers are tempered by two other branches of government. A president who transfers power peacefully, something that has been done every four or eight years for over two hundred years. Incidentally, America is a democratic republic. When did China have its last free presidential election?
God Bless America, the biggest consumer of the world's natural resources
Actually, the "problem" is a first world issue, not an American issue. Per capita, America is not a leader. Look to Japan.
God Bless America, so happy to violate international laws
Riiiiiight. Let's see. America violated international law by...uh...hmmm. By...hmm. Oh, you mean by invading Iraq? The one that appears to be authorized by UN Resolution 1441? Hmmm...
God Bless America, where "freedom of speech" means race-hate groups like KKK
Yes, and the ACLU and the Sierra Club and the NAACP and Greenpeace and any other organization that criticizes the government. Freedom of speech is not freedom to act. You clearly do not understand what freedom of speech means. To limit one organization's speech because you do not agree with it is to open the door to limit anyone to make the same claim about any organization. Of course, China doesn't have that problem. When you disallow freedom of speech, you only have to worry about the hate groups that keep quiet.
God Bless America, and its massive and ever-growing poverty gap
America's poverty rate in 2000 was the lowest in 26 years. It has only slightly increased, from 8.7% to 9.2%. Recently, NPR reported that instead of people spending vast periods of time in poverty, they tend to move out of poverty in a period of a few years, but others, due to a variety of reasons, move into poverty, again, generally, to move out in a few years. This, of course, is in contrast to China's poverty rate...11.2% in urban areas, darn near 100% in rural areas.
God Bless America, with barely 300 years of dire history and culture
The world's oldest, continously functioning representative democracy. America has managed to overcome, in less than 300 years what China, with over a thousand years of history has not.
God Bless America, all its appalling "sitcoms" with no grasp of irony
OK, I guess I can accept this as a strike against America...
God Bless America, with the highest obesity levels in the developed world
One of the pitfalls of freedom of choice is that one is free to make personal choices that are bad for you.
God Bless America, because corporations should be allowed to run amok
Actually, corporations are not allowed to do that. A tiny bit of research will show you that in the end, they do get caught.
God Bless America, wasting billions to attack foreign countries
Like Tibet? Like Nepal?
God Bless America, and thank God I don't have to live there.
And the final difference between the US and China? In the US, nobody has to live here!
-h-
Pronunciation: (")dis-'tO-pE-&
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from dys- + -topia (as in utopia)
Date: circa 1950
1 : an imaginary place where people lead dehumanized and often fearful lives
(from www.m-w.com)
Imaginary place? You haven't been living in Patriot Act America for the last for years, have you partner? We have U.S. citizens held on U.S. soil without charges and access to lawyers all on the say-so of the Selected President* declaring them enemy combatants. We have hundreds of foreign nationals detained on a off-shore base for an undefined period of time, declaring them to not be prisoners of war so that they receive none of the protections of the Geneva Convention. And we have the Ashcroft "Justice" Department figuring out new ways of taking the measures of the Patriot Act and applying them to non-terrorist prosecutions.
They're upfront about censorship? BS. There are news blackouts on almost everything for the common person. Remember that Iraqi WMD accusation and Al-Queda link a few months ago? Average American believes it. They think their government tells them all the news that's fit to print. They believe the lies about Iraq, the lies about terrorism, the lies about China, because no one tells them different.
As for supression, see how you like when you are up late at night, worry how your family is because you may or may not have been caught for having a Middle-Eastern sounding name.
Or maybe that this guy might disappear and his family never know under other circumstances. Or the fact that American customs detains American citizens of Middle-Eastern descent when come back from the Middle-East?
Then, asses like Cheny claim that it is for the good of Democracy and Freedom in America. When someone claims otherwise, the Americans either lock them in Guantanamo, declare an act of terrorism, or simply beat the poor bastard up.
You fool. You sorry sorry fool. You have no idea how good you have it.
I really had a hard time taking this post seriously.
Until you've seen the face of a person terrified at the idea of meeting any police, or a person shaking after getting a ticket, or a person afraid to talk to anyone in government, then you should talk.
Given that I have lived in China (and other underdeveloped nations), and have seen all of this first hand, I do believe that you must grant me the authority to speak on this matter, based on the statement above.
We are free. We are very free. You can walk up to the White House and picket it. You can drive your truck with a rifle in the back. You can say what you want on the Internet. You can read the books you want.
Let's keep it that way, mmm kay? Although your tone resembles a dogmatic chant more than an argument....
Even if another terrorist attack occurs, do you think they're going to take these liberties away? No. The government won't. In fact, they can't. Because people like myself speak up and let people like you know what is going on. Because people like myself are armed and watching.
In my opinion, everyone should be armed and watching. I don't like the idea of a nation who entrusts their liberties in "people like yourself," who claim to be experts without introducing themselves first.
Our founding fathers knew what they were doing a hell of a lot better than you give them credit for.
What do I give them credit for? What did they do that exceeds my acknowledgement?
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
Um, of any of the times I've been there and of all the people I talked to the only people who ever gave any indication that they believed for a second their government was being upfront with them and not telling them lies was the occasional tour guide when I decided to go on a tour somewhere. All of them are government employees, and a number of them got across pretty clearly with their faces that they knew it was a load of crap but they had to say it.
There is certainly the angry minority who likes to push the buttons of those in power, just as there are here, but the average chinese citizen isn't nearly as stupid as you seem to think they are.
Have you ever been in China? Can you read any Chinese? Do you visit Chinese websites?
I'm a Chinese in Canada. Sometimes I'm amazed how ignorant you guys are when you talk about China. You've never been there and you know nothing about its language and history, but you still believe you know everything going on in China because you see it on TV. For god's sake, you really believe they are telling the truth in TV?
It's true that political suppression exists in China. It's true many Internet sites are blocked in China. But things are getting better. Sometimes it's changing so fast that I was surprised when I read the news about the submarine accident. Yes, it's public news in public Chinese websites. So were the coal mining disasters.
Taiwan is seperated from China because of an unfinished civil war. It's no different from the American civil war except you were fighting for Negroes and we were fighting for, well, power. Taiwanese don't have the right to claim independence without the consent from the PRC government, which is the same in Quebec. Sometimes you may really want to know something about Taiwan because the U.S. government insists they will join the war if China attacks Taiwan. Believe me, if Taiwan claims independence, there will be a war. And if you Americans decide to mess abround, you'd better know what you're fighting for before you get killed.
If you really care about China, learn some Chinese, visit China yourself, talk to people from China. If you only need an evil country to make yourself feel better or to justify what U.S. are messing around in the world, well, go ahead.
Well, even though you didn't have the courage to reply with your name, I'll answer your complaint.
You're right, China didn't spend billions invading Tibet. That's because Tibet couldn't fight back. My point was not that China spent billions to invade (incidentally, the US did not spend billions to invade Iraq - the billions are to rebuild the country after the previous regime raped its infrastructure), but that China invaded a country that posed no threat to it, other than being a vocal critic of its form of government.
I did not say that the US accomplished everything that China has accomplished...I said that it has overcome the things that China has not been able to overcome - a totalitarian regime that does not represent the desires of its people.
History and culture come with time. If being a young nation is something to be critical about, then there are plenty of countries to pick on. Given that the US is a country of immigrants, an excellent case can be made that our history and culture goes back to the middle ages of Europe. While that's not several thousand years of Chinese history and culture, I'll also point out that Mao Tse-Tung's government did its damndest to wipe out China's history and culture. Really, you don't think that the Cultural Revolution was about getting back to their historical roots, do you?
The document that I linked to does indeed show reported crimes. I agree, it makes third world countries look outrageously safe. But if you consider the reports from developed countries, you'll find that those statistics are quite accurate. And, after all, the comments that I made and responded to were about crime in the developed world.
The point is that the parent post stated that "at least China is better than America", a patently ludicrous statement, given that the arguments backing it up are, for the most part, wrong.
-h-
Don't be an idiot. King got what he deserved, media be damned.
Why? Because when you taser a mothefucker several times and he still comes up swinging, I'd beat him until he stopped moving, too.
Stop the BS about "poor King" and watch the full movie, not the 20sec clip shown on most the news stations. Taken out of context it's damning; in context, it's perfectly reasonable.
--etrnl--
Aside from the "a thousand years of history" thing (either chalk up 5000+, or talk PRC and put up 54 years--yeah, give that young-country argument again, ya' freaks. We trump most current nation-states in current incarnations, hands-down), I do believe I agree with everything else posted.
Having lived in China teaching English in the North, I really challenge folks who speak so freely against the U.S. or even the current regime in power to set up shop in ANY other country and do the same to the powers that be or the state structure there. Then come bitch about how "oppresive" the U.S. is. The 'States were attacked, and actions were taken. Debate the efficacy of such policy actions, not their reason for existence or the motives of those who enacted them.
If the U.S. is so "oppresive," why must we so constantly hear such shrill whining about freedom of speech issues on sundry websites and from sundry organizations? Wouldn't an oppressive state (like, say, oh, a state discussed in this thread somewhere...) legitimately apprehend or otherwise detain individuals of such divergent opinions and fully censor their speech?
Fight the xxAA's and MonopoliSts of the world, instead of alienating a regime that could help fight the good fight if properly reasoned with. (If the Dark Forces' lobbyists are working the lawmakers, advancing their interests, and you don't have lobbyists doing likewise, guess who's viewpoints influence policy, ya' Mensas?) The access is there. Use it not to attack and blindly criticize, but to advance your interests.
Yrs.,
JYW