Guy Fawkes' Explosion Would Have Devasted London

Anonymous Coward writes "Experts at the University of Wales in Aberystwyth have worked out for the first time the true extent of the damage Guy Fawkes would have caused if his daring deed had not been foiled on November 5, 1605. " Sorry - history geek/major in me coming out, but this is definitiely one of those major points in history when things Could Have Gone Differently.

Comments

Done later anyway

[16K Ram Pack]

Great Fire of London, 1666.

And let's not forget the South Bank ;-)

Re:Not much to destroy

[Amiga Lover]

If anyone's interested in other results of conventional explosions, take a look at the texas city explosion in 1947 when a ship carrying fertilizer (supposedly, there is some debate about whether there was more behind it) detonated, or the fauld explosion in the UK in 1944 where 3670 tonnes of stored bombs exploded underground

Re:Wasn't he framed?

[Anonymous Coward]

I also understand that Brits seem to have tossed out the whole Nov 5th thing for the more commercial American import of Halloween, but haven't really picked up on the concept, with many kids showing up on pumpkinless doorsteps sans costume.

Not really. November 5th is still a bigger night in the U.K than Halloween; we spend UKP80million a year on fireworks, most of them for November 5th. Sales of plastic horns and Scream masks pall in comparision really.

What tends to happen is that Halloween simply gets overshadowed, which is why none of the kids really go for it with much gusto. Especially this year, where November 5th has fallen smack in the mid-week, meaning there are large scale firework displays both the weekend before and after.

Re:Wasn't he framed?

[martinthebrit]

Some of us Brits object to the American import of Halloween overshadowing our own pyrotechnic traditions.

Very funny diatribe about 20 minutes into last week's Now Show (radio 4 comedy programme) about this very matter.

Re:Wasn't he framed?

[erinacht]

We celebrate both all hallows eve and November the 5th, though for me personally, Guy Fawkes night is a rememberance of poor old Guy and the good he could have done.

Was Guy Fawkes Framed? find out here!

Since it may be my namesake's festival, I have to correct you on the "American Import" bit...

It is believed that the tradition of Halloween reached America with the Irish immigrants of the 19th century who, according to Barkin and James, retained the belief that ghosts and spirits roamed the earth on Halloween. It is even possible that it was the Irish that developed the idea of trick or treating when villagers would go begging for food for a feast or perhaps the festival of St. Columb Kill.

Though to be fair, Haloween as it is celibrated today is Americanised

Gunpowder != TNT

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

"what's the general difference between gunpowder and TNT? I mean, both are a pure form of salt peter and whatnot, basically a normal explosive."

Not even close. TNT is "tri-nitro toluene", is a pale yellow crystalline, aromatic hydrocarbon compound that melts at 81 C. It is way more stable than nitroglycerine (not related to gunpowder either). The specific combustion energy of TNT is 4.6 MJ/kg. I'm not sure what gunpowder formula Fawkes used, but I doubt that it could have been as effective as TNT.

Halifax Explosion

[Irishman]

An explosion of this magnitude (over 2.5 kilotonnes of TNT) did explode in a city back in 1917. Halifax, Nova Scotia in Canada was devestated by an explosion of a munitions ship on its way to Europe. The explosion killed almost 2000 people, injured over 9000 and rattled dishes about 300 km away. The explosion was so large, it was actually studied by Oppenheimer and his crew as a model of how to deliver the atomic bomb. From this, they determined that damaged is greatly enhanced when the bomb is exploded above ground. If you want to find out more, just go here.

Re:Halifax Explosion

[nautical9]

On the cool clear morning of December 6, 1917, the munitions ship Mont Blanc, already on fire from a collision in Halifax Harbour with the Belgian relief ship Imo, glances off pier 6 in the north end of Halifax sparking a fire in the dockyard. West Street firemen were the first to arrive at the pier 6 fire. For all but one of them, it would be their last alarm. At 9:04:35 am the Mont Blanc explodes with a force of 2.9 kilotons. The Halifax Explosion killed between 1600 and 2000 people, wounded another 9000, and left 25,000 people homeless.

From http://www.halifaxfiremuseum.org/

Re:I don't get it.

[riggwelter]

We have a national day (it's not actually a holiday) in the UK (well, England certainly) on the 5th of November to celebrate the fact that Guy Fawkes, and his fellow conspiritors we prevented from commiting a major act of what was essentially religious-inspired terrorism, namely the assisnation of the monarch and parliament.

That's why effigies of Mr Fawkes are burnt as part of the celebrations.

Of course, given that Mr Fawkes represented the oppressed (at the time) Roman Catholic community, was he a terrorist, or a freedom fighter?

Huge Difference

[Detritus]

Gunpowder, or black powder, is a low explosive. It doesn't detonate, it deflagrates, which means that it burns very quickly, producing large quantities of gas.

TNT, or tri-nitro-toluene, is a high explosive. It detonates, producing a violent shock wave.

High explosives are more violent in their effects than low explosives. That's why they are so popular with the military. They do a better job of breaking things.

Child's play

[Illserve]

Back in WW2, the RAF had a huge ammo depot called the Fauld.

On November 27, 1944, there was an accident and it blew up.

This is the supposedly the largest non-nuclear explosion in recorded history.

3670 tons of bombs went up in an explosion that was seismically recordable in Casablanca

The crater was half a mile across.

78 people killed.

A photo:
http://www.historicairphotos.com/g_uk/imag e2_lge.j pg

Some informative links with other photos:

http://www.carolyn.topmum.net/tutbury/fauld/faul dc rater.htm

http://freespace.virgin.net/kehla.barnes/disaste r. htm

Black Powder is not a high explosive

[hughk]

so please can someone explain to me why the effect would be the same as the same quantity of TNT. The black powder was in barrels and it was in cellars which would have provided some compression. Would it be enough, well I don't really think so.

My BS detector needle is hugging the high end again!!!!

FWIW, a high explosive is one where the detonation wave exceeds the speed of sound in the explosive so that it blows up, so to speak before it flies apart. High explosives do not need compression, but low-explosives do. This is why black powder goes off in a phut unless it is compressed so that it doesn't fly apart until all parts are reacting.

Re:Gun powder = TNT

[SharpFang]

Dunk TNT in water, no effect. Hit it with a hammer - no effect. Warm it with a match - no effect. Place it in open and detonate it. The explosion is considerable.

Dunk gunpowder in water. Won't burn. Hit it. Boom. Apply a small spark (like static from your sweater.) Boom. Put a pile of it in the open. Shhhh! - a big cloud of smoke, some sparks, some bright fire, no explosion. (only puting it in relatively small chamber - like a gun, a barrel or a cellar, depending on amount - causes considerable explosion. Otherwise it just burns quite rapidly.

Re:My old uni!

[MartinB]

For the first time ever my old university is mentioned on Slashdot

Nope.