IBM Releases Desktop Linux Presentation

An anonymous reader writes "DesktopLinux.com, in coordination with the Desktop Linux Consortium, is making select presentations from Monday's groundbreaking Desktop Linux conference at Boston University's Corporate Education Center available. Sessions from the well-received program included talks from key companies and open source projects bringing Desktop Linux into the enterprise. The first presentation available is from IBM's Sam Docknevich, Linux and Grid Services Executive for IBM Global Services and is titled "Open Source Desktop - Directions for today... and Tomorrow". His presentation discusses IBM's push into the Linux desktop market, an initiative from inside Big Blue."

Comments

IMHO, Open source is bad for the economy

[Anonymous Coward]

It annoys me that Linux developers try to compete with commercial companies. Listen: you are destroying bussiness! Sun will probably be the first casualty. With no commercial companies left, there will be no innovation. I propose the following "constitution" for open source developers:

1) I will freely license my code for use in commercial products (ie, use BSD license not GPL.)
2) If a commercial equivalent exists for what I'm developing, I will not try to market it as a replacement for the commercial product.
3) My software will not be targeted at the average consumer (read: no easy to use UI, no easy installation process).

So basically, you can develop research software, specialized software, etc. But please, if no-one buys MS Office and d/ls openoffice instead, innovation in word processors and spreadsheets will stop. We do not want this.

Re:IMHO, Open source is bad for the economy

[andrewa]

Hey Bill G./Steve B., you forgot to log in.

Re:IMHO, Open source is bad for the economy

[cduffy]

Please -- nobody's innovated in word processors or spreadsheets for years. What "innovative" new versions are, to 99% of users, is cost centers. Open source software shares development costs, and so reduces the costs of the businesses using it.

Being able to build a business that's doing something truly innovative while using zero-cost, open source software as building blocks means those engaged in true innovation are spending less for the privilege of being able to do business -- which means there's more money left to fund real innovation rather than throwing money away on licenses for software which reached the plateau of its usefulness years ago.

Yes, I know, IHBT; I'll be sure to HAND.

Re:IMHO, Open source is bad for the economy

[sm.arson]

Wow. This post is so off-base I don't know where to begin. Call me a conspiracy theorist geek, but I'd bet that you're some kind of microsoft employee.

#1 is stupid: why should I automatically let somebody commercialize code that I've been working on for free with the intent that my code shall be freely distributed? Corporations should not be able to feed off the open source community for commercial purposes.

#2 is even dumber: if there is a commercial product out there, anybody should be able to work on an open-source replacement. If the commercial product were perfect, then nobody would waste their time trying to replace it. The last time I checked, no existing piece of commercial software has attained this status. Competition, open-source or otherwise, is the primary incentive for software developers to improve the quality of their wares.

#3 is the worst, and I'll quote this one directly, as I anticipate your post being moderated -1 flamebait: "3) My software will not be targeted at the average consumer (read: no easy to use UI, no easy installation process).

Who the hell is paying you to post this? Are you suggesting that open-source developers should make their software as difficult to use as possible? Are you saying that the job of making software that benifits the general population should only be given to large corporations? I suppose that only microsoft is qualified to create software for the "unwashed masses."

Everybody should have the option to choose whatever piece of software they want to use. They shouldn't be force-fed one kind of software or another. If existing software companies have to have all of their open-source competitors outlawed for them to turn a profit, it only goes to show how terrible their software really is.

Re:IMHO, Open source is bad for the economy

[One Louder]

This makes sense if you believe that all of the economy resulting from software is generated by the developers/publishers.

However, you're forgetting about the users - many businesses rely on OSS, which they would not be able to afford to run using the equivalent Microsoft or Sun solution, at least when starting it up.

More importantly, we are in a situation where an abusive monopoly runs viable commercial alternatives out of business, which is certainly not healthy for the software ecosystem. OSS is turning out to be one of the few forces keeping some of these commercial companies in line.

So, yes, some older business models will fail, but others will replace them. I won't cry anoy more for Sun that I would for the monks who lost their jobs creating illuminated manuscripts .

Amusing

[whig]

I really liked this picture. (Bill Gates getting bitten by a penguin.)

Re:Amusing

[Brandybuck]

It's a whole different widget look! Aaaargh! If Linux can't make any headway on the desktop because GTK+ widgets don't look like Qt widgets, then why are we letting Microsoft get away with .NET widgets that don't look like MFC widgets?

Question?

[niko9]

What's to prevent IBM from releasing an all in one Linux desktop solution? Linux + IBM Power PC + a IBM reference desktop motherboard? Something with AGP, built in sound, USB 2.0 and firewire.

Why woudn't IBM want to do this. Could mass adoption of these chips drive their prices down and make them competetive with INtel and AMD chips?

Would that make sense? If not, why so?

-

Re:Question?

[drinkypoo]

IBM has traditionally had problems releasing hardware with a good price point. I'm not really sure why this is. They have also always had a serious problem making computers which look cool. Take a look at the PS/Valuepoints if you don't believe me; when they came out, even all the cheapest PC clones looked better than that.

IBM can make far more money selling services. PowerPC really offers no tangible advantage for the average desktop system over x86's descendants.

Re:Question?

[ducomputergeek]

Well, there is one that FreeBSD + PPC with AGP, sound, USB 2, and firewire.

It's called Apple Macintosh with OS X.

And yet:

[Anonymous Coward]

1) You can't buy a IBM Thinkpad unless it comes with Windows. That 'old "Microsoft tax"

2) IBM can't be bothered to support FreeBSD on their laptops. Public case in point - the use of Type 165 for the partition that held the backup info. Private case - IBM staffer claimed they'd help with a USB implementation issue on one type of Thinkpad. (The USB doesn't work at all with FreeBSD and the only way Linux works is if you force the probe order in some wonky way.)

3) Many of the new style Thinkpads come with the Intel wireless - the one only supported under Windows.

I'll believe IBM cares about Open Source when they address the 3 above. Otherwise its the swapping of one corporate master for another.

Re:And yet:

[fw3]

Well yeah, you're talking laptops, which are still a far cry from well supported by Linux. Look at their servers, Netfinity units I picked up on ebay nearly 3 years ago used Linux-boot cds w/ java for Raid-controller configuration.

1. the number of buyers for thinkpads with linux is tiny. IBM has in fact shipped some models with linux pre-installed but as a general move, linux on laptops is still pretty chancy, why should they put all that effort into somthing that obviously will generate no return.

2. See 1, if the market for Linux on laptops is small, the market for fbsd on laptops is that much smaller. As it happens I have installed fbsd on my Thinkpad, don't use usb so don't care but I do/did care that it corrupted my linux partitions and completely fails to recognize the OpenBSD disklabel.

3. See 1. latest-hardware drivers on Linux has always lagged. with 99% of the market, sure windows drivers get written right off. Funny how revenue will cause code to get written.

Re:And yet:

[hbo]

1) You can't buy a IBM Thinkpad unless it comes with Windows. That 'old "Microsoft tax"

Sad, but true.

2) IBM can't be bothered to support FreeBSD on their laptops. Public case in point - the use of Type 165 for the partition that held the backup info. Private case - IBM staffer claimed they'd help with a USB implementation issue on one type of Thinkpad. (The USB doesn't work at all with FreeBSD and the only way Linux works is if you force the probe order in some wonky way.)


That's not the case with current ThinkPads. And though it was an inexcusable blunder when they initially committed it, IBM fixed the problem with a BIOS update 3-4 months after they were pummeled by the FreeBSD community (Link to my 2 cents worth of pummeling.)


3) Many of the new style Thinkpads come with the Intel wireless - the one only supported under Windows.

Of course, that's the case with any Centrino based laptop out there. It's Intel's worry, not IBM's.

I'll believe IBM cares about Open Source when they address the 3 above. Otherwise its the swapping of one corporate master for another.

Corporations are fictional legal persons. They don't "care" about anything. People within corporations do. A lot of people within IBM care about open source. Andrew Tridgell works for IBM, for example. IBM has embraced Open Source for a variety of reasons, but in my opinion they all boil down to this: Free and Open Source Software gives IBM an advantage over its rivals in the competition to sell Information Technology to global business. IBM will attempt to assist its customers in saving money through the use of

1. Cheap hardware. This means Intel and AMD today. In the future, it could mean Power, if the latest supercomputer offering is any indication.
   
2. Cheap(er) Software. This avoids the Microsoft tax and "sticks it to" a major competitor. IBM isn't pretending that free-as-in-beer software is actually cost free.
3. Superior services. IGS is poised to win a lot of business helping customers realize cost savings by switching to the first two bullets.

IBM has lots of other irons in the fire with regard to Linux, but those are the ones I see most clearly. The fact that they are focussing on Linux and not FreeBSD is a function of the marketplace. Linux is the OS that the largest percentage of the FOSS community has gotten behind. IBM wishes to leverage this energy for its own purposes.

This may be cynical, but consider that the effort has resulted in substantial (many 100's of millions of dollars worth of) contributions of code by IBM to Linux, Java and many other projects, the hiring of many FOSS authors, to work on their own projects, substantial direct cash support for OSDL and others and the hiring of lots of folks who really do care about FOSS, though they may not be codejockies.

Finally, IBM is fighting a lawsuit aimed at stopping the forward momentum of Linux, and by extension, the rest of FOSS. One result of this suit could be the legal validation of the GPL, which would be a huge step forward for the entire community, even those that prefer the BSD or some other license.

So, IBM may be pursuing its own interests, but they are making a lot of moves that hugely benifit FOSS. The committment is long-term, but even if it weren't, what IBM has done up to now deserves recognition.

Disclaimer: I now work for IBM. But I made my decision to join them by considering the points I just made.

TODO List For Linux Desktop

[EventHorizon]

1. Fix X to be fast, non-bloated.
2. Fix KDE to be fast, non-bloated.
3. Fix Gnome to be fast, non-bloated.
4. Fix Mozilla to be fast, non-bloated.
5. Fix OpenOffice^W^W Write a new Office Suite.

Not trolling: Go install Fedora and see how it runs on a three year old machine. There's quite a lot of work to do.

Also:

6. Standardize on one version of Solitaire.

Re:TODO List For Linux Desktop

[spoonboy42]

Just a few notes here:

1. Mozilla is actually quite fast, especially compared to the competition (in essence, Internet Explorer). The monolithic Internet suite approach definitely does introduce some unnecessary overhead, but as Mozilla moves towards a modular model based on Firebird and Thunderbird, you can expect this to be remedied. The only major desktop browser that's left to consider, really, is Safari. Well, as it happens, Safari is based on KHTML, and the advantages of the very lightweight and speedy Safari are all present on Linux with Konqueror (which, incidentally, doesn't have the additional CPU/GPU overhead associated with Apple's Quartz framework).

2. X is not a bad framework. Features like network-transparency and the like are, in fact, VERY important in environments where thin-clients/servers are common. XFree86, in particular, is being forked every which way at the moment which, while at first glance seems like trouble, will probably wind up introducing some very interesting innovations, both in terms of processing and memory-efficiency and eye-candy. In the meantime, XFree86 provides a compatible, stable base that is more than fast enough on modern desktop hardware.

3. KDE and GNOME are not one-size-fits-all desktop environments. They are designed to be flexible and extensible and, as such, they tend to be more complex than, say, XP's Luna or the Mac's Aqua (incidentally, Luna absolutely sucks eggs as far as speed and bloat go, and while Aqua is admirably efficient given all that it does, one still must consider all that it does in terms of rendering iCandy). This flexibility is not necessarily a weekness, as it allows a desktop to be tuned for a particular user's needs, ranging from thin-client type apps to my dual-display K desktop littered with SuperKaramba themes. Anyway, what I'm getting at is that feature-set vs. performance is not a huge issue on modern desktops, and in places where it is (like embedded systems) Linux has very sleek, slim alternatives that still manage to be pretty and functional (like, for example, Opie). There are also desktop alternatives available for the KDE and GNOME-hating, thanks again to the modularity of X keeping the window manager and the display server seperate, ranging from GNUStep to Ratpoison.

4. You've got a point about OpenOffice, I must admit. It's not necessarily a bad system, but then again, it's not really anything more than an Office clone. A free and very portable Office clone, but an Office clone nonetheless. One of the good things about Linux desktop software that I mentioned above is that it doesn't try to recreate Windows or Mac with precision, but rather provide a very flexible framework that can be adapted to the user's needs. OpenOffice definitely doesn't fit in with this philosophy, but I'm sure that there are other projects going on out there working to redefine how we think of Office suites. And if not, somebody ought to get to work on that. ;)

5. Just a side note, Fedora isn't exactly the examplar of Linux's efficiency and performance. Go Gentoo!

What all the above boils down to is this: Does Linux have a way to go before becoming the perfect desktop OS? Certainly, and work is ongoing towards this goal. However, we must also ask another question: Is Linux, at this moment in time, a better choice than Windows or Mac for many users and businesses? Absolutely, and it's looking better every day.

Re:TODO List For Linux Desktop

[spasm]

"Not trolling: Go install Fedora and see how it runs on a three year old machine. There's quite a lot of work to do."

Tried running OSX or WinXP on a three year old machine lately? My three year old Mac (brand new 2001) won't even let me install OSX let alone *run* it..

Nice reading.

[miffo.swe]

Looks like linux has more heads on the desktop than Apple. Time for hardware companies to take linux seriously, seriously,

The next time some hardware company excuses the missing printer driver with linux small userbase point at this new info.

I assume most businesses arent aware of this and many of them probably only needs a pointer to some stats.

The only thing missing...

[Space cowboy]

... from a Linux desktop is bundling by a major distributor. People use apps. Apps are available for Linux. Worst case (possibly apart from games) you can use crossover or wine...

Simon.
(Who's been using Linux on the desktop for the last 3 years...)

The Battle has just begun

[argoff]

If you think things are bad with SCO, wait till we start to hurt Microsoft's revenue stream, then all hell will break loose. With that much at stake, things are bound to get violent.

Re:The Battle has just begun

[arcanumas]

Which is one more good reason why the battle to establish GPL and Linux should be against SCO. This is a good thing. There will be a precedent.

Credible

[Mostly a lurker]

This is a truly excellent presentation, as we would expect from IBM. For enterprises, there are two specific aspects that will really inspire confidence:

1. IBM has over 15,000 existing internal Linux clients and this is rapidly expanding.

2. There is no attempt to gloss over potential issues, such as browser incompatibility with IE and weaknesses so far in supporting knowledge workers. These are accepted, but demonstrated to be applicable only to certain categories of users.

The general message, which is convincing, is to look at each user segment separately and objectively and use Linux where it makes sense at the time.

Powerpoint....

[Lord_Dweomer]

Maybe before developing for Linux, IBM should develop an alternative to Powerpoint.......

Re:Retraining?

[MadocGwyn]

I'm thinking the point is more. "If your going to have to do all that retraining anyway, why not do it with us.

path to the desktop

[b17bmbr]

the path to the desktop is through the enterprise. sure, there are HUGE differences in needs, but, this is where windows started. wince it was used at the office, you needed it at home. now, with open source desktops, it is even better. sure, for many users, linux can do most things, but where it fails, i.e. video editing, plugging in a usb camera, etc. is crucial for the home users. but it does suffice for many though. now, go back to the office. linux is perfect. far better security, far easier maintanance, lower costs, etc. so, joe user needs to work on something at home, the boss says, here's a cd, install this on your computer. then linux makes headway into the home. and as that happens, drivers will be written, and maybe the bundled software will be written in cross-platform toolkits (QT, gtk, etc.) rather than win32/.NET. the tipping point my guess is somewhere around 5%.

Problems with Gnome.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the major failiure with OpenSource (I'm saying open source because theres more than just gnu/Linux) on the Desktop is Gnome. In fact, Gnome 2.4 was awful. Gnome 2.2 was better though, and I'm glad that Sun and Ximian are sticking with that tree for now.

Anyway, now that the LG fiasco was solved, I downloaded the Mandrake 9.2 ISOs. Such a relief from Debian with Gnome 2.4. All my hardware 'just works', no typing commandlines and Lots of sources that are easier to set up.

I never want to touch Gnome again until they dump gconf-editor for a real configuration editor, similar to KDE control centre or TweakUI, fix the file dialog, and replace that FOOT with something tasteful. According to Section 9 of the HIG, the Gnome logo is a violation of the HIG, since no body parts are allowed in ICONS.

So, if you want to see what a Linux desktop SHOULD be like, try Mandrake 9.2, and don't forget that KDE 3.2 is around the corner, I tried the Alpha and its FAST!

Linux desktop profitable for Sun already

[ChrisRijk]

The FCS release of Sun's Linux Desktop will start shipping soon and is expected to be profitable for Sun on release - see this article at The Register.

Sun have had a number of StarOffice customer wins for over 10,000 seats, and a few for the Linux desktop bundle it seems (reading around a bunch of press articles). However, most of this is outside the US - see this article:

Not among those seeking a Microsoft desktop alternative are customers in the United States, Schwartz said. "I will be blunt in saying North America has the least sensitivity to price of any nation on Earth," he said.

Here's another quote from him, from this article:

Company Executive Vice President Jonathan Schwartz Thursday said the
appetite outside U.S. for an alternative to Microsoft is "voracious".

Why are they reccomending Gnome?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not kde?

Gnome translate-o-matic

Ever since Gnome 2.4 was released, I have found more and more gnome zealots who MUST absolutely advocate GNOME at every possible moment. Here is a guide to some of their claims, and what they really mean.

Unlike KDE, Gnome is free
Translation : GPL is freerer than LGPL. LGPL allows corporations like Novell and Sun to have propeitry forks and lock away their changes from the user. Now that Novell has taken over Ximian you can expect Gnome to get put under corpirate lock. With KDE you have the choice, you either PAY UP or pay with your source code.

Nautilus is much better than konqueror.
Wrong, if your using nautilus for anything more than a simple finder clone you can forget it. No split screen, no ioslaves and forget about being able to have a decent file dialog, not to forget that it is as unstable as hell and is STILL slow on >3 Ghz machines.

Gnome is easier to use
Yep, nothing like using gconf-editor to edit all except the most trivial of settings. Want tear off menus? Want a useable file dialog? You won't find it here.

Gnome has eye candy
Yes, my pirated Win32 fonts with the patent infringing font renderer. Bit stream vera sans looks like Tahoma put through a shreadder! Of course I still reboot into windows to print using "Comic Sans MS.

Gnome has a new web browser
Yawb! Along with Galeon, mozilla, thunderbird, konqueror, atlantis, lynx, netscape and w3m. Yes I need another browser! Not to mention that its got a religiously offensive name and it dosen't allow bookmark folders. It also crashes like a crazy! Apple chose khtml for a REASON! its stable and light!

For newbies, Gnome is the ideal choice
Despite the fact that the only mainstream Gnome based distro has been EOL'd, and all the newbie distros such as Mangadrake, Lindoze, $u$E, Lycoris, Xandroze, Gentoo use kde default, the Local unix geek showed me Debian, which installed Gnome 1.4 by default, so it must be good if he uses it.

You KDE guys must be sick of the K
Our G's and monkeys are SO MUCH better, gedit, glib, gconf, bobono, ghex, gless, same-gnome.

Gnome is themeable
Yep, choose from High, low and medium contrast, default, and clean ice. Wan't to change the colour scheme? USE GCONF NOOB, plus if you complain about it we will tell you to fuck off and go back to Windows or KDE.

Gnome has multimedia framework
Its a kludge of esd combined with broken xine libraries. No wonder it crashes all the time and dosen't work on 95% of video files

My Gnome work station
My 1.1Ghz Packard Bell box my mum bought for me from PC world, that is made of made to break components, but it has a GEFORCE RADEON 9000 card, so it must be good.On the other hand, no-one (well, nearly no-one) is suggesting that GTK+ is a replacement for Qt...

Gnome allows mac like operation.
x86 compatible 1 button mice are almost impossible to find, and it dosen't copy the whole macbar concept. Not to even mention their auto apply implementation is broken and dangerous! Plus if they did actually come anywhere close to copying the Mac the C&D letters would come flying up their asses.

Gnome is GNU software.
gnu/Yay, gnu/gnome gnu/for gnu/my gnu/debian gnu/linux gnu/500mhz /gnu/celeron gnu/packard gnu/bell gnu/box.

Inspired by the gentoo translate-o-matic.

Some day, but not today

[kuzb]

Linux is still not ready for the desktop. Before people pull out their torches, flamethrowers and other impliments of death seeking my head, lets have a look at why.

1) X - This was a neat idea, and has had a lot of time and innovation put in to it. However, it's still ununified, clumsy, confusing and bulky. When X works, it works great. When X doesn't work, it's a nightmare.

2) Lack of standardization. Simple things which should work and operate the same over many applications sometimes do not. Such is the case with cut & paste, which beyond not being 100% universal, is a really lousy implimentation. If you're like me, and you highlight the text you want to replace with what is in the clipboard, you'll know what I'm talking about.

3) Very basic things which should be autodetected and configured by XWindows are simply not. How long have scrollwheel mice been around? How about mice with more than three buttons?

4) Lack of proper native support for popular applications. Ok, so perhaps this is not linux's fault, or Xs for that matter. However, wine and crossover office are poor substitutes to running windows applications under windows. While it is good that linux software has sprung up to try to fill the void, much of this software is nowhere near as good as their windows counterparts. See: MS Office vs Openoffice or Gimp vs Photoshop. Before Linux is viable, big names need to port applications over to run nativly. Otherwise, you may as well just run windows.

5) Regardless of the advances made with the Linux desktop, it is still not user friendly. More to the point, it's confusing. Having a lot of choices can be a good thing, and a bad thing. For us gearheads, it's great. But for the average user, it's a tedious hassle that takes too long. I can set a windows box up from start to finish in about an hour. Linux almost always takes the entire day.

6) Package management in linux sucks. Installing something in windows is almost always hassle free, and fast. Installing something in Linux is sometimes hassle free. Library conflicts, bad software and things that just don't compile for whatever reason really hurt linux as it increases the complexity of the whole process.

In short, Linux is not really a good desktop operating system. It lacks standardization and most popular modern applications are not available for it.

Lastly, how is a conference on Desktop Linux solutions groundbreaking? I'm sure many have been held before.

But RedHat says..

[nurb432]

That linux isnt for the desktop... Who should i belive.. big red,or big blue...

( as i sit here submitting from Konq running on FBSD 4.9 )

You're right - I tried

[Prof. Pi]

You can't buy a IBM Thinkpad unless it comes with Windows. That 'old "Microsoft tax"

I bought a Thinkpad for a relative in China, who wanted a Thinkpad because of IBM's reputation. (I had to agree with her; I've never had any problem with them hardware-wise, unlike many other laptops.) I tried to get one without Windows, not because she's a Linux user but because she would naturally prefer a Chinese-language version of Windows and the sellers in the US only sell English-language editions.

The IBM ordering website had a bewildering list of models, all of which were very specific as to CPU speed and other features. (For example, two machines with different CPU speeds but identical in every other respect.) There were about 20-30 models with minor differences between them. It was a lot like the way cars were sold before standard options packages. So much for the excuse that vendors don't want to sell preconfigured Linux systems because they only want a few models to simplify manufacturing and inventory. simple.

I called IBM's ordering department and asked if I could get one with Linux pre-installed. The saleswoman said no. I asked why they have so many models with trivial differences between them but they offer no choice of OS.

"Oh, but we do have choice. You can have Windows 2000 or Windows XP." ("We have both kinds [of music]: Country and Western" -- The Blues Brothers.) And no, I couldn't get a Chinese version either.

Next I asked if I could get one without an OS. "No." "Why not?" "Because Microsoft won't let us."

Now, to be fair, her info could've been out of date. Maybe she couldn't thing of anything else to say, Or maybe that's what they told her to say. But if she's telling the truth, wasn't the anti-trust settlement supposed to put an end to this?

The end result was that M$ gets paid for 2 copies of Windows on one computer. (Well, my relative was paying for it, so that's her choice. I would've gone to a Linux laptop vendor, though I don't know if any of them are as reliable.)