Slashdot Mirror


FSF Wants Your Vouchers

Ridgelift writes "California residents can help support the Free Software Foundation by donating their Microsoft vouchers to the FSF. In turn, the FSF will be able to convert the vouchers into hardware. There's more information here at the FSF website. With 1.1 billion dollars in vouchers Microsoft is forced to pay through the recent anti-trust court case, it's satisfying to see some of those fortunes being spent to help create good software for a change."

25 of 320 comments (clear)

  1. Not "Good Software" by SpringRevolt · · Score: 4, Insightful


    The FSF primary goal is *not* to create good software. It is to create *moral* software - software for goodneighbourliness and sharing - the fact that it is good (high quality/few bugs) - is a welcome - but secondary effect.

    FSF's beef with Microsoft is not that it produces poor software - but that it produces non-Free software.

    1. Re:Not "Good Software" by Col.+Klink+(retired) · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The FSF does have a beef with Sun, IBM and Red Hat. They even have a beef with Debian, a distribution which requires all software in its release to be free, because they maintain non-free software on the same servers as their distribution. So, from the FSF's point of view, it is not any more complicated than that.

      --

      -- Don't Tase me, bro!

    2. Re:Not "Good Software" by byolinux · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, but software that doesn't support users freedoms is a bad thing.

      You can charge all you like for Free Software, you just need to understand that I can make changes to it and redistribute it with those changes.

      The FSF charges for software. https://agia.fsf.org/

    3. Re:Not "Good Software" by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How does my not giving you *anything* equate to my not being moral?

      Enforcing copyright is not just the lack of giving something. It is taking something away, the ability to copy and distribute.

      What if my belief system is different from yours, who is moral then?

      Are you arguing that there is no such thing as morality? If so you might as well just quit there, 'cause that isn't going to lead to an interesting discussion about whether or not something is moral.

      "Morals" are not absolutes. What may be moral in one belief system may not be in another belief system.

      So murder is not necessarily immoral, then? It all depends on one's belief system?

      Hey, it's a valid argument, but if you're going to use it then the rest of your argument is meaningless.

    4. Re:Not "Good Software" by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It's up to the creator what they do with their source code
      You are falling victim here to the exact same fallacy that lies behind "It's my knife, therefore it's up to me who I stab with it". Don't confuse freedom over your own destiny with power over other people's destinies. Your {real} right not to get stabbed overrules my {false} right to stab you. And your {real} right to use software overrules anyone else's {false} right to try to stop you from using it.

      See also here

      The benefits of all human endeavour belong to all of humankind. If we are to expect that our fellow human beings will help us to the furthest extent possible short of actually harming themselves, then it follows that we are all obliged to help our fellow human beings to the furthest extent possible short of actually harming ourselves. If we expect any less, then we may as well not have bothered with the whole evolution thing.
      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    5. Re:Not "Good Software" by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Doesn't the FSF deny people the right to copy and distribute software, unless they agree to the GPL?
      No. The GNU General Public Licence uses the same copyright law that has traditionally been used to deny users of software their rights, to protect those same rights. The FSF does not insist that anyone use the GPL for software written from scratch. What the FSF does insist is that if you incorporate source code covered by the GPL into a project of your own, and that usage exceeds your statutory rights of fair dealing {which vary among jurisdictions, check with a local expert, but basically you are usually allowed to lift a small amount of someone else's material verbatim, whether they like it or not}, then you should either release your work under the GPL or seek special permission from the copyright holder. It's really not much different than, say, if you wanted to use code from Windows in something else -- you would have to seek special permission from Microsoft {and hell will thaw out* before they give you it, but that's beyond the point}.
      The only way to be moral about software is to allow people to copy and distribute it without restriction.
      Although the law says that you can't use more than a small percentage of someone's copyright material without permission, there is no law that stops you taking some public domain work, making a tiny change {leaving much more unaltered than the "fair dealing" limit on copyright material} and copyrighting it in your own name. That is why the GPL was created. As long as there is copyright on software, there is a need for the GPL.

      If your enemy has a weapon, insists on using it against you and will only stop when either you or they are dead, then your only chance of survival is to arm yourself. Cf. the late buddhist monk who refused medicine because he believed that germs were living creatures and it was not morally acceptable to kill them.

      * Northern European Pagans will understand this.
      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  2. Re:I think... by Ianoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What, then have them buy Microsoft software to put on those computers? Donating money to a free or open source software organisation (FSF, EFF, etc) means that free software improves. It will receive more widespread adoption. Schools will feel more inclined and more justified using it over Microsoft's products. They can then spend the money they'd otherwise spend on Windows and Office on more PCs.

    Giving the vouchers to the FSF (or EFF) is a long term plan rather than a direct feedback route to Redmond's bank account.

  3. Re:How about the EFF? by Ianoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am inclined to agree. I'm much more likely to donate any vouchers I receive to an open source rather than free software organisation. I'd much rather see the money support projects that really need it rather than those that fit with Stallmann's moral vision.

    I bet the only software he'll be sending machines is that which is licensed under the GPL, not any kind of BSD-style license - and considering many of the important components I'm using on this desktop at the moment are indeed licensed under BSD-like licenses (XFree, GNOME [LGPL]) are also those most in need.

  4. What is good software? by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · · Score: 3, Insightful

    it's satisfying to see some of those fortunes being spent to help create good software for a change.

    Just what is "good" software? Quality good? MS makes quality software. Is it guaranteed that all software produced/supported by the FSF will be of high quality?

    Morally good? How can software be moral or immoral? It just is. You may not think the method of production is moral (think slave labor in diamond mines) or the use of the product is moral (think use of encryption by drug cartels) or even if it was moral to produce the product in the first place (think TEC-9) but really, those cases are really about the morality of the producer and not the product.

    Is Microsoft an immoral organization? What does that mean? If a company has done good and bad which actions determine the character of the company? The standardization of the desktop (Windows) and of basic productivity applications (Office) has certainly accelerated the acceptance of the personal computer, and that appears to be a good thing.

    Of course, Microsoft's motive was profit. But is that immoral? Microsoft is a company. Companies seek profit. Even more than that, companies want to dominate their markets. Microsoft clearly achieved that and not through anti-competitive practices. Once upon a time, Wordstar was king, Visicalc was the sole player in the spreadsheet domain, and GEM was the GUI to use on a PC. Microsoft came to dominate those areas through quality software and marketing savvy.

    Microsoft was successful at doing what it was supposed to be doing. That's not bad any more than the failure of a company is good. Next time think before you throw out your knee-jerk rhetoric. Consider your position and choose your words to say what you mean.

  5. Re:bleah =P by Simon+Lyngshede · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ha, that compiler your looking for is GNU software. You're not geeting very far on FreeBSD with the GCC.

    gcc.gnu.org

  6. Re:I think... by Ianoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The question to ask yourself is "has the usability of Linux on the Desktop improved in the last 5 years?". You're kidding yourself if you think the answer is no.

    The next question to ask is "will this trend continue?". Considering that many free/open source software projects such as the GNOME project are now extremely focused on usability and both they and KDE have won awards for usability, I'd say the answer is almost certainly "yes".

    Some time in the next five years, Linux will be ready for prime time desktop use in any environment. I can't say exactly when that will be due to the order-from-chaos development model of most projects (which is both a good and bad thing). But it will happen, and when it does, I'm pretty sure you'll be pleased you donated your vouchers to help.

  7. Re:hmm by hazem · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Schools don't really care if their kids can get jobs. And they really don't care about what software they use. They're too buys "teaching to the test" with the NCLB (No Child Left Behind).

    NCLB is a good idea, but too many teachers I know are being told by their bosses, "teach the test".

    The same bosses probably prefer more expensive software because it means they get bigger budgets to spend as they wish. No administrator wants their budgets cut, so there is no real incentive for them to start using cheap/free software.

  8. Re:Or RMS could rethink the GFDL by sphealey · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Context for the parent post is at LWN:

    http://lwn.net/Articles/59147/
    I don't agree with the "Offtopic" mods - this is an issue.

    sPh

  9. reasons non-free is immoral by twitter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What you say is true, but it's worth mentioning that there are real social harms tied to non-Free that Microsoft is a great example of. The first and most obvious social harm is the intentional waste that users are subject to. When a vendor decides to change file formats in order to drive sales of a new version, they force their users to convert their files mostly to own the same thing they thought they already owned. Less obvious intentional waste comes from the inability of users to fix their problems. RMS cites a closed printer driver and his inability to fix it as his first brush with non-Free pain. The least obvious but most harful effect of non-Free is it's bad attitude. Non Free software vendors promote knowledge hoarding. A society where everyone, doctors, lawyers, engineers, you name it, acted like that would be highly inefficient and unpleasant to live in.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:reasons non-free is immoral by Bas_Wijnen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A society where everyone, doctors, lawyers, engineers, you name it, acted like that would be highly inefficient and unpleasant to live in.

      Don't forget the scientists. In a sociciety like that, ... Oh wait, perhaps there wouldn't actually be any scientists. All the wannabe scientists would be busy inventing the wheel.

  10. Re:bleah =P by cpghost · · Score: 3, Insightful

    no more GNU software on my computer, I'm gonna go play with FreeBSD, now dammit where'd I put that compiler.

    Beware: There's a lot more GNU software in FreeBSD, than gcc (and binutils, etc...) alone. And I don't mean third party ports that we all love and use, but also in the base system. There is a also a lot of non-GNU, but GPLed software in the base FreeBSD system as well. Just one example: cvs.

    We owe a lot to the GNU project, and would never have gotten that far without their contributions.

    --
    cpghost at Cordula's Web.
  11. Re:hmm by pongo000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Could you imagine if a certain grade school decided, "Hey. I have a good idea! Let's use Linux on all our computers here.". The children learn and get aquainted with Linux then get into Jr. High - Uh oh, now the students from that grade school are way behind.

    The reason for this is because we really don't teach computing fundamentals. We teach computer technology through rote memory. Go ahead, pick up any Windows application textbook. You will find many enumerated lists on how to accomplish Task A, with lots of pretty graphics with pointing arrows. By the time the student is done with such a book, they know exactly how to perform Tasks A, X, Y, and Z--and nothing more.

    We are building a society of automatons, with little in the way of reasoning ability. A big shame.

  12. Good software, bad docs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    it's satisfying to see some of those fortunes being spent to help create good software for a change.

    First of all the FSF doesn't produce any software, they let "their community" take care of that, so for development they don't need those machines.

    Second, good software comes with good documentation, but the FSF blocks all efforts to produce good documentation with their insane GNU "Free" Documentation License, that is not free at all according to Debian, and even according to RMS himself.

    Finally, the FSF is not the right organisation to donate anything to in the first place. RMS rules it like a dictator, there is no Freedom in the Free Software Foundation (cf. the HURD developer that got punted because of public criticism on the GFDL).

    If you want to donate something, donate it to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, to Lawrence Lessig, or to Red Hat for their battle with SCO...

  13. Stallman's a nut, but my hat's off to him by Ridgelift · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Californians, who like many others had little choice but to pay Microsoft's high prices for its monopolistic proprietary software, now have a unique opportunity to help the Free Software Movement

    RMS's stance on non-free software is tiresome, borderline-communist, and impractical. I agree with others that his motives are not great software, but software li[b|v]re.

    But OH-my-goodness...the contributions he's made! Take a couple of hours and read Richard's biography Free as in Freedom. It's a must-read, and as always Richard has ensured it will be a free one as well. You may love him or hate him, but more than that the man has earned the respect he deserves.

    Support the FSF.

  14. Sigh. Just report the news. by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    satisfying to see some of those fortunes being spent to help create good software for a change

    Classic (unnecessary!) Slashdot editorializing in a news report.

    Hint: News has an impact of its own. Ending every story with an inflammatory spin, one that's often misinformed, is not needed.

  15. Re:lindows free pc by mm0mm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    lindows costs more money but it's still was built on OSS so why would i donate it to the FSF and possibly not get a freePC?

    because Lindows Co. does have a revenue source, while FSF depends heavily on donations to keep their operations running. Lindows is selling commercial OS which *happen* to be based on OSS and/or free software. Also consider the fact that thanks to the billioneire-turned-entrepreneur, Lindows has enough budget to promote their products.

    personally I have no craving for a half-ass freePC. Would Debian-based Lindows be successful (not commercially, but as an OS) as it is now without OSS/free software? I doubt it. donating MS settlement $$$ to keep OpenSource and free software movement alive is not a bad idea, imo.

  16. About the second restriction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Personally I wouldnt mind if the GPL stipulated that tools for compilation of the source code needed to be freely available at all ... in fact it seems a very reasonable requirement. That is one of the two things Id like to see changed about the GPL, that and the requirement to abide by the restrictions of the GPL even if you are a copyright holder (ie. as a patent holder you shouldnt be allowed to tack the GPL on code for which the patents arent freely licensed for GPL software, there are a few companies doing this ... and it could be easily prevented by adding some stuff to the license to the license.)

    What is the point of having the right to modify a format without the means to do so?

    BTW the invariant sections only concern the non technical parts of course, so it isnt all gloom and doom.

    1. Re:About the second restriction by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Personally I wouldnt mind if the GPL stipulated that tools for compilation of the source code needed to be freely available at all ... in fact it seems a very reasonable requirement. That is one of the two things Id like to see changed about the GPL, that and the requirement to abide by the restrictions of the GPL even if you are a copyright holder
      I understand why, but consider the consequences of this.

      Suppose a proprietary software company decides that one of their old products no longer has significant sales, so they wish to release the code to the world under GPL.

      Under today's version of GPL, they can release the code even if it only can be compiled with a proprietary tool (e.g. Microsoft's IDE). Then perhaps some hackers outside the company, can start cleaning up the code on their own initiative -- creating Makefiles, getting it to work with gcc, etc. Eventually, after some work is done, it becomes truly free software that you can compile and use on your Linux or Hurd box.

      Under the future GPL that you propose, the software company would not be able to release the code under GPL, unless they took the expense to make it portable first. Unless they're bubbling over with excess resources and altruism, they won't do it, and I wouldn't blame them.

      It is pointless and counter-productive to put things into GPL that impose a restriction upon the copyright holder. If the holder does not like the restriction, then they will simply opt to not use that license.

      What I would suggest as a compromise, is this: if a work can be compiled with free tools, then other parties (other than the original copyright holder) should not be allowed to distribute derivative works that require proprietary tools for compilation.

      Derivative works should be at least as free as the work they are derived from. But do not place too many restrictions on how free that original work may be, or you simply won't get the work released under such a license.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    2. Re:About the second restriction by Dominic_Mazzoni · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What I would suggest as a compromise, is this: if a work can be compiled with free tools, then other parties (other than the original copyright holder) should not be allowed to distribute derivative works that require proprietary tools for compilation.

      That seems silly too. What if somebody ported my GPL'd Linux program to Windows, using the most common compiler on that platform, Microsoft's Visual C++, and in the process they added one new small feature. You're saying they wouldn't be allowed to release the modified code under the GPL because now it requires VC++? I would much rather that they release the code; I can always port it back to Linux later if I want.

  17. The FSF actually helps Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would not donate my voucher to the FSF, because the GPL, which the FSF promotes, helps Microsoft. It does this by making it impossible for small companies to reuse code to build commerical products that compete with Microsoft's. It thus kills Microsoft's competition in the cradle.