Universities Dispute with Red Hat over 'Fedora'

Carl Lagoze points out that a pre-existing software project is already using the Fedora name, dating back to 1998. They're unhappy with Red Hat's claim to the name, and have objected.

Comments

Re:how about the hat....

[Tenareth]

A Trademark needs to be exact, It's a Fedora (Generic) and it's not red, and it's not pointing the right direction.

Just ask Rob about the IBM Logo, IBM said that since it wasn't the proper ratio it wasn't a valid Logo. In an old job we got to co-brand with IBM, and the dimensions were defined down to the width of the spaces and blue in the lettering.

Re:Pot, meet kettle.

[ahillen]

From reading the university Fedora website, it appears that while work on the project itself was around since 1998, it wasn't actually released to the public under the Fedora name until May 2003.

Hmm, I think they are only saying that they released version 1.0 to the public in May 2003. To quote their website:

" There is substantial evidence for prior use of the name Fedora? by the Cornell and Virginia teams starting in 1998. This includes published papers, web sites, software releases, and public presentations."

That sounds to me that even before May 2003 they had software releases, a web site etc. using this name (just no 1.0 release).

Re:Trademarks...

[javatips]

You can trademark common english words if the product/service the trademark will be put on is not related to the meaning of the word.

I can trademark "Truck" for some software product but not for a vehicule.

USPTO Link

[Gunfighter]

Click here to view the status of Red Hat's Trademark filing.

Re:Heavens to murgatroid!!!

[Theatetus]

you can't TM a word and claim domain over all uses of it.

Actually you can, if it's a made-up word. Now that Phillip-Morris is "Altria" or whatever, I can't go and start "Altria Lumber Concern" even though lumber isn't related to their cancer creation service.

But, since neither party made up the word "Fedora", you may have a point. However, the "field" is generally recognized to be rather broad, for example, "software". If some company decided to call its telephony software suite "Nero Burning ROM", Ahead could still stop them even though telephony and CD recording are ostensibly different fields.

fedora.info lies

[oldstrat]

A search at the US patent and trademark office lists 4 registered trademarks with the word fedora in them.

. 73467748 Feb 28 1984 Fedora Cafe and Bar
. 78296509 Sept 5 2003 Red Hat
. 78268874 June 30 2003 cosmetics
. 78312293 Oct 10 2003 Chemical Data Software

The fedora.info site of the complaining fedora project is using a tm symbol next to thier name on the site, but they have not registered it with the US trademark office.

It is not exclusively trademarked for software by fedora.info.
This could be forgiven of a small independent group, but this group is a co sponsored project, part of Cornell University and University of Virginia both of which I am sure have strict policies about things like Trademark, copyright and patents. And both have the legal staff to handle it.

Sorry but they won't get any sympathy from me, and no support from the law.

Trademark is not like copyright law, you must register to get exclusive control for a product in a market.

Fedora IS a hat

[macdaddy]

Fedora is a type of hat.

fedora ( P ) Pronunciation Key (f-dor, -dr)
n.

A soft felt hat with a fairly low crown creased lengthwise and a brim that can be turned up or down.

That's probably why Cornell's Fedora Project uses a hat as a logo and why Redhat chose Fedora as a project name.

Re:Gentoo

[Neon Spiral Injector]

From the bottom of the (file manager) project's home page:

Gentoo the Linux distribution has nothing to do with gentoo the file manager, except the latter runs on the former. I actually used the name first of the two, way back in September 1998. I've been in touch with the Gentoo folks, and we're cool.

Re:Heavens to murgatroid!!!

[nodwick]

Or maybe they need to realize that it's okay to have a Fedora Linux project and a Fedora (something else) project.

Actually, as I read the article, U Virginia and Cornell are objecting precisely because Red Hat is asserting that it's not ok to have a Fedora Linux and a Fedora [other software] project. From the article:

Red Hat's assertion of trademark includes restrictive guidelines on the use of the Fedora name.

This is understandably a concern for the "other" Fedora if Red Hat is going to make them change their name. If you check RH's Trademark Info page, they do seem to have some cause for concern that RH is going to clamp down on them:

Except as provided herein, you may not use "Fedora" or any confusingly similar mark as a trademark for your product, or use "Fedora" in any other manner that might cause confusion in the marketplace, including in advertising, on auction sites, or on software or hardware. Any party wishing to use the Fedora(TM) mark may do so as long as they meet two conditions:

(1) They must only use the Fedora(TM) mark in association with the original Fedora(TM) code found on the Fedora Project website (see http://fedora.redhat.com/) without modification;

(2) If they charge a fee for the CD-ROM or other media on which they deliver the Fedora(TM) code, they warranty the media on which the Fedora(TM) code is delivered, thus ensuring that the recipient receives a usable copy.

Emphasis added is mine. The wording of the legalese seems to imply that the next step for Red Hat is to clamp down on anyone else trying to publicize other software (or even non-software products) also named Fedora, even if it isn't related to Linux. Whether that's legally defensible is arguable, but the intent to try appears to be there.

Re:Pretty boneheaded move on Red Hat's part

[forevermore]

Fedora (Flexible Extensible Digital Object Repository Architecture) is even trademarked

Merely adding the ™ symbol after your name doesn't really say more than "I use this name, I call it mine, and I may be in the process of registering it." Unless you have substantial documentation to back it up (which the universities do claim to have), it isn't really legally binding until you register it with the government and that little ™ turns into a nice ®. However, registering a trademark is expensive, and usually takes a long time, so most people just stick with the ™ if they have enough documentation to support the claim.