Slashdot Mirror
On Rewarding Socialization In MMORPGs
Thanks to Skotos.net for their article discussing how social interaction affects gameplay in MMO titles. The piece suggests: "That the majority of MMORPGs, MUDs, and other multiplayer games ultimately support achiever players over socializers, or even killers, I think begins to outline how poorly we understand - and support - true social interactions in today's multiplayer games." It goes on to discuss freeform socialization ("We slap a chatline into a game. Then we spend as much time making it look nice"), competitive socialization ("the richest form of interaction possible in multiplayer games, yet ironically it's more often been seen as a problem than as a potential virtue"), and co-operative socialization ("One of the few games that has really tried to push this envelope is Asheron's Call with its ideas for feudal structures.")
9 steps to greasing your anus for Yoda Doll Insertion!
All in a days work with a yoda figurine rammed up your ass.
I HAVE A GREASED UP YODA DOLL SHOVED UP MY ASS!
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Because of Yoda's attitude, I usually don't respond to his perversions, but this time I'll make an exception. For starters, the nicest thing that can be said about Yoda's lackeys is that they are goofy insurrectionists out to demonstrate an outright hostility to law enforcement. Already, some piteous Neanderthals have begun to fund a vast web of uncontrollable vagabonds, combative slackers, and naive malodorous-types, and with terrifying and tragic results. What tracts will follow from their camp is anyone's guess. Think about that for a moment. Simply put, every morning Yoda asks himself, "How can I fool the masses today
Most of the players of these games are geeks, like the /. crowd.
Therefore they have no social skills anyway. Most people play games to get AWAY from life and INTO a world where they can use their strengths and avoid their weaknesses.
So why spend time working on a feature that most of the players have little skill in using anyway?
Sure, someone's going to say how much geeks use text messaging. I'm sure they do. It's a nice way to communicate without having to learn social skills and to avoid REAL interaction while pretending to be openly communicating.
they should introduce the player action of anal rape, and assign points for different beasts. x2 multiplier for doubling up on a beast with a friend.
A winner is you!
Most people play games to get AWAY from life and INTO a world where they can use their strengths and avoid their weaknesses.
Precisely. If MMORG players want social interaction, there's a great simulation of it available 24/7 in the big room with the really high blue ceiling. No modem required.
MMORGs meet other needs.
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
Untitled, inspired by Scooby Doo
"GROOBY ROOBY ROOOOOO!!!" exclaimed Scooby, as his powerful 121/2 inches of angry canine lovestick spewed gallon after gallon of semen over Daphne's naked ass and thighs.
"Oh Scooby, that was amazing, as always,' panted Daphne, as the dregs of her 5th consecutive orgasm died away. "But I do wish you would keep your voice down in the future; you know what my Freddy's like, he gets so jealous - I sure he knows there's something between us.'
Fred and Daphne had been 'going steady' for some time now, Fred believing Daphne to be a virgin; however, Daphne had neglected to mention to him the hot lesbian affair she was conducting with Velma (the way she cried 'Jinkies!' upon climax still rang in Daphne's ears) and the fact that she was here in the back of the Mystery Machine every other night, letting Scooby satisfy his animalistic urges upon her.
But she knew she was a slut, and, goddamn it, she liked it. If it had a pulse, or even if it didn't (as had been the case with numerous supernatural entities in the past), hell, then she was game.
Much as she loved Fred for his sturdy sensibility, his all-American good looks, and his impeccable dress-sense, she found him prudish at times. "Not until we're married, Daph!" he would protest, each time she made her amorous advances towards him. Maybe it was his strict Catholic upbringing. Was it any wonder, she often reasoned, that she had to satisfy her cravings elsewhere? If only Fred could understand, if only he could see the fires that burned within her, within her very being, within her moist and welcoming loins...
Well, in the meantime...
"You ready to go again, Scoob?" she purred, winking seductively, and already back on all-fours.
"UR-HUR-HEE-HEE-HEE-HEE!!!" chuckled Scooby, obviously overjoyed at the prospect.
Just as Scooby was getting ready to deftly plunge his gargantuan helmet into Daphne's juicy crevice, Daphne warned: "Please, Scooby, try to keep it down this time - I don't want Freddy to hear..."
"You don't want Freddy to hear what?"
They both looked round. The doors of the Mystery Machine were torn open, and there, his white sweater glinting in the moonlight, stood Fred, the fire of anger burning fiercely behind his eyes. He surveyed the scene before him - the Great Dane, in an obvious state of extreme arousal, hunched over his precious Daphne's naked ass - and he felt decidedly un-Christian thoughts brewing in his mind.
"You don't want Freddy to hear...what???" Fred repeated, with even more bile.
"Freddy!!! I...I...it's not what it seems...we were just...Scooby! Get off! Bad dog!", Daphne stuttered and protested, trying in vain to pin the blame upon Scooby.
"Oh don't start with that shit, you fucking bitch," spat Fred, his face contorted. "I know what you two have been up to. Every night you come out here, I've been watching you through the Mystery Machine's windscreen. You two make me sick".
"But," he continued, "as I watched more of your trysts, I came to realize that...I like sick."
An evil, mischievous grin spread across his lips.
"And now...it's time for your punishment."
Unable to move, unable to breathe, Daphne and Scooby watched transfixed as Fred produced a number of items he had been concealing behind his back; a coat hanger; a 12-inch, jet-black dildo; a length of barbed wire; an extra large tube of KY Jelly; and a curious, shapeless item that neither of them could make out in the gloom.
"RAAAGGYYY!!!! RELLLLP!!!!" cried Scooby in desperation.
"Oh, Shaggy can't hear you," said Fred, advancing on the pair menacingly. "I'm afraid I had to introduce him and Velma to the joys of S&M, followed by violent anal rape, followed by death."
"Freddy? Wha...what's happened to you?" stammered Daphne.
"Oh, nothing much, baby...I just decided to start living," said Fred through clenched teeth. "Unfortunately, the exact opposite can be said for our little friend here..
Killing someone is a social activity too, you know.
RvR in Camelot was a great step, but more needs to be added. I believe developers need to borrow more from sports. For example:
:-)
1) Clearer rules, tougher refs. We've all complained when people get away with cheating. I believe that every game needs to be monstrously despotic in tone when it comes to the rules of its game. However, to facilitate this people need to be clear on what is an infraction, and what isn't one. Too often I see a tactic labelled an exploit, and players penalized for limits in the game engine, especially AI. (No, I don't perch or anything like it.)
2) Announced victors, new seasons, culminating events. People don't simply play baseball forever: there's a set season, and at the end of the playoffs a victor is determined and people move forward. Imagine DAoC where every year from November to the new year the top 3 realms (or best of each realm) were allowed to transfer their characters to a new server where they competed for the championship. (Determined by keep-taking, kill ratio, and so on.)
Why focus on competition? Because that's the essence of any game. I think most games tend to lack a robust competitive environment; once that exists, I feel the support elements (crafting, etc) will take on added importance in the grand scheme. But again, for that to happen, the competative environment must be honed.
-Jeff
P.S. Sorry for the rambling nature of this. Late night, early morning, the usual...
Please learn the difference between a dissenting opinion and a troll before you moderate.
The game is in early beta and has some other really cool concepts. Go check it out, the screenshots are awesome and the community so far is friendly and helpful.
You need only look at SWG or Sims Online, both are advertised with one of thier features being good chatting and social capabilities.
Besides if I really wanted to just chat I would load up IRC, or call up real life friends, or even see if any of thoses avatar chatting systems of years ago is still around.
.... really encourages socialization to advance.
:), and I've found the game to be very deep and downright difficult to advance without the help of others. The first time you notice this is right on the newbie island where all characters start. Typically there are people trying to achieve one of their leadership tests (having other people build totems to them) on the newbie island acting as mentors. The mentors job is to help the newbies understand the game, and get them past the first challenge, which is to get from the newb island to Egypt mainland. This is the first time I've seen socilization rewarded in a game.
I've been playing the game for a few weeks now (since a slashdot story mentioned it
For Tale, it doesn't stop there. Once you are in Egypt, you realize the game is massive and complex. You simply can't build everything you need to advance your skills in the game without trading resources with others. The best way to do this is join a guild (or guilds, it allows multiple). Guilds in Tale are a social structure. Most likely you will join the guild that your mentor belongs to, and it will be your primary. Once you explore the world for a while, you find other people who want you to join their guild and might have resources not available to you in your current location.
I would almost say it's enforced socialization, but it doesn't feel that way when you play. Achievement is so much *easier* with socilization.
Success is as dangerous as failure, hope as hollow as fear.
Most of the players of these games are geeks, like the /. crowd.
Therefore they have no social skills anyway. Most people play games to get AWAY from life and INTO a world where they can use their strengths and avoid their weaknesses.
So why spend time working on a feature that most of the players have little skill in using anyway?
Sure, someone's going to say how much geeks use text messaging. I'm sure they do. It's a nice way to communicate without having to learn social skills and to avoid REAL interaction while pretending to be openly communicating.
Interesting this was downgraded to troll. I guess that's one social skill the moderators (and the rest of the people here) have -- not able to deal with their own weaknesses and wanting to shoot the messenger
I'm the lead game designer for an amateur french MMORPG set in a new universe. It is called Milcis. Now apart from the apparent self-advertising look of this post, I have to say this is a very interesting concern we have discussed from early on. We now have developped a game design device called the "triplette", which is a set of three "variables" (Power, Discovery, Invention). Basically, the goal of the triplette is to allow the player to rate the respect they have for other players.
..
You may say this is open grounds for cheaters. This is, and this is why we had to think a lot about the way the player can use it and cheat. The Slashdot moderation system is obviously a good example of a quite good rewarding system.
Any player can gain triplette either by achieving quests, or by recieving points by other players. It is a pyramidal system that should hopefully balance itself. I won't dive too deep into the rules unless someone is really interested though
Then the interesting thing is the usage of the triplette. It is needed to improve one's magical abilities.
So in Milcis, players can still play hack'n slash, get a huge strength and be the big barbarian we all know (actually, the permadeath makes it harder for PK, but it's not the point here). On the other hand, social players are rewarded with magic abilities (offensive or defensive depending on the magic).
I just wanted to show that, whereas this is not necessarily new to MUD players, there are some MMORPGs (even amateur ones) taking this path of rewarding social behavior and tiding it to the very core of the gameplay and the background. I hope professional developpers will ultimately try this idea too, since it seems like a major requirement to prevent MMORPGs from encouraging hack'n slashers and dumb power-leveling.
theefer
The niggers and other mud races, which are anti-civilization by nature, have been "tolerated", the result being that the civilization is gradually ceasing to exist. As a nigger, for example, cannot be made to identify with that which is not in his nature, he can only make America like that which is in his nature: an anarchical jungle. Those who reign, therefore, are responsible for the growing mayhem in our country. They are responsible for the growing destruction of the American civilization.
The point is that there are more types of social interaction than just those allowed by chat lines. In particular there are many competitive and cooperative actions that aren't generally supported. I'm going to discuss those starting in my article two weeks from now. Shannon
Every MMO that I've played had some very generous "patrons" willing to help start out some of the newer players. They generally don't just throw money at you, but socializing generally will work in your favor as a newer player. It depends on what your definition of "rewarding" is, but I'd say that counts.
The original Asheron's Call also had a "patronage" system, which basically was a higherarchical pyramid that allowed you to gain experience for those that you helped teach. It was interesting, but kind of reminicent of all those "Drug wars" or "zombie" HTML recruitment games.
So why spend time working on a feature that most of the players have little skill in using anyway?
Aside from the "feature" of having brave players trying it out and learning to be social as a side effect, what about the few hundred million other people out there? You know, the kind of people who aren't the loner geek sterotype, and might be interested in a game where they can use their social skills as a "strength"? Might be a large target market out there somewhere, but you won't know until you either do some research or just blindly try it and hope your company folds.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
It's been quite a while since I played any, but from what I recall the conversation tended to be along the lines of reading slashdot at -1. But with a lower grade of spelling, and more cybering. I wouldn't want to socialize with a foul mouthed twelve year old in my normal life, why would I want to when playing an online game? Competing against them in twitch games is one thing, hearing their opinions on who 'r gay!!!' or a 'fucking whore bitch cunt' is another.
Everything will be taken away from you.
what about the few hundred million other people out there? You know, the kind of people who aren't the loner geek sterotype, and might be interested in a game where they can use their social skills as a "strength"?
They're probably out with their friend -- you know, doing the kind of thing people who have a life do -- things like going to concerts, parties, get-togethers, sports events or maybe even out on dates!
I have found that the biggest problem for any MMOG, let along MMORPGs, has been that accounts can get banned, but people don't. There's nothing to keep 'Joe Obnoxious' from getting back on. And since sometimes these people have more money than social skills, they'll buy another copy just to get another valid CD-key to get on and start annoying people again.
As a member of the RPGA, I've been impressed that we have formalised procedures to ban people. Ok, you have to pretty much assault someone to get banned (and some of these guys are HUGE, so assault would be scary), but at least we deal with real people.
What I would love to see is some 3rd-party system that verifies identity. Maybe you can gain points that lead towards beta-testing, prizes, etc. by being a good player over time. You'd have this ID account, and then you could have multiple gaming accounts attached. Say you play about 20 different games. Well one community may hate and ban you, but you'd have to really ruin it all over the place to get permanently banned.
Random Sunday morning rambling, but I know this is the kind of thing that would enable my parents to be online gamers and maybe even pay a subscription for games. From my management experience, this could seriously grow the market.
Linux - because it doesn't leave that Steve Ballmer aftertaste.
...(or even a funny joke) if the article had been about social interaction in non-massively-multiplayer videogames.
By definition anyone who has an interest in multiplayer games has *some* interest in socialization. Otherwise they would be completely satisfied by off-line gaming.
The problem is that no one (even the non-geeks called "social scientists") has come up with a really good model for socialization. Perhaps this is acerbated by the fact that many games are designed by geeks who may be constitutionally unsuited for this task. But the geekiness of the players probably doesn't enter the equation at all.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
There are comparably few people willing to pay monthly for a massmog, just for the pleasure of socializing. (eg The Sims Online)
as such, the return on time spent refining your social tools and rewards is going to peak fairly quickly. compare that to the return on time spent polishing your gameplay (adding special abilities, races, classes, etc) or adding game content (monsters, zones, items). You'd probably get more lipservice in the press for a partical system that took 2 months of dev time, than a social structure that took 8.
for most markets, guild structuring/warring and chat groups is about all the structure the playerbase cares for. EQ doesn't even have guild warring and it continues to set the target for massmog size. Sims Online, UO and AC have the best social tools in the mainstream market, and they're all languishing in relative population counts.
And while they have healthy communities of players, no suit is going to bankroll a massmog if your estimates put the player base at 30-100k after 12 months. they all expect 3-500k.
Social players are more likely casual players. and casual players just aren't paying monthly yet. (and who can blame them. $50 for the box and then $15/mo for a game you get to play for 20hrs/mo max?)
it would take an entirely different game, designed from the ground-up, to sell the casual market, and thereby necessitate better social tools.
imo, the price hook for casual gamers is going to be on the level of pre-paid phone cards. Let them pay hourly, pre-pay at a lower rate for bulk hours, or simply pay a flat monthly fee for unlimited.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
FFXI (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us) has implemented a number of features for in game socialization, some optional and some indirectly enforced by the game rules.
While fighting monsters is the only way of getting experience, the game is designed so that at mid-to-high levels, the only battles that a player can gain significant Exp. from are dangerous for any single player to fight alone. A player who does not want to 'party up' can still play, but will spend a lot more time gaining the same amount of Experience. Also, various skills (from weapon skills to magic to basic skills, like, say "Evasion") will only rise marginally unless you are fighting a challenging battle. The different jobs each have a role to play in a party, and are given skills and tools to excel in that role. If those players choose not(or don't know how) to use those skills, the party will not do well, so mentoring happens quite often.
In addition, the "Conquest" system encourages people to prevent other players from dying to monsters, and social organization between players and groups of players to further the goals of their nation.
Finally, the global chat system(individual players can purchase a 'linkshell' that gives them their 'own' global chatroom, and allow players to join it by giving them an equippable 'linkpearl'), in-game Friend list, and server-wide in-game postal system (for items and money), in addition to the Auction Houses in the various cities, rewards(in terms of paying less for the same items) socializing as far as the economy goes.
FFXI has a lot of other features that make the game enjoyable while also easy to play, but offering great rewards to master.
Ok, that last part sounds like an ad for the game, but that's really how I feel.
Disclaimer: I don't work for Square-Enix, any of their associates, affiliates, or anywhere in the gaming industry, or any industry supporting the gaming industry. I just really like the game.
Frankly, video games will never grow as a medium until it learns to stop marketing to geeks. Oh look, another anti-social, misanthropic game where a woman with large breasts and a big gun kills people. Gee, how original. Oh, it was an elf with a sword, my fault.
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You know, Chris Crawford wrote an article about the state of the game industry. In short, he said that the industry was run by 13 year old prepubescent boys with no social skills whatsoever. Of course, I'm paraphrasing (not by much). It's true. I like video games and I write code for a living. I'm sure I'm knee deep in the geek factor. However, the industry is stagnant. It's just like Hollywood or big movies. Unfortunately, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to hold a video camera or play a guitar (especially if you do it badly). There isn't a solid indie gaming scene.
Here is a link to Chris Crawford's article:
http://www.erasmatazz.com/library/Game%
If it's good for a laugh, I originally read socialization as socialism, which gave a much different connotation.
What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....