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Broadband Over Power Lines in Canada

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the rest-of-the-world-still-dialing-up dept.

Patchw0rk F0g writes "From Europe, we jump to la belle province of Quebec for the latest test of broadband internet over power lines (Real Player stream available.) Seems the utility is already utilizing the system to control traffic lights and such, and is exploring the possibilities of offering a cheaper service to consumers to compete with DSL/cable/satellite. Lower prices? I'm all for it... but I live in TORONTO!"

11 of 254 comments (clear)

  1. Amateur HF Band Issues by Kymermosst · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anyone know if they've done any work on the issues with BPL and interference on the HF bands?

    I, for one, do not welcome the interference from BPL in the HF bands.

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    1. Re:Amateur HF Band Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I just got an arrl newsletter telling all of their members to contact their congressmen and tell them what a bad idea this is. Apparently, according to ARRL research, broadband over powerlines causes significant interference not just in ham bands but across the spectrum. Although I havn't exactly looked at the research in detail, I can't see how the power companies could avoid interference. Powerlines aren't shielded, and for any reasonable bandwidth to be passed through the powerlines, the frequency would have to be high enough that a significant amount of power would have to be used. Unshielded wire is always agood antenna, and for some situations the best. Granted it won't be well tuned, but I've seen worse situations cause a lot of interference. My home is near high voltage power lines (read a large part of San Francisco's power) and even at 60hz, I get interfering harmonics all the way up into 10 meters. Avoiding electrical grid contamination is something every ham has fought with. Hopefully I'm wrong, but unless there is some way of preventing interference, this seems like one of those thngs that will be really good for pacbell and really bad for the rest of the wireless world.

  2. One point in its favor. by Hanzie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It actually seems to work. I've seen 'demonstrations' before where it couldn't even control traffic lights.

    If they're actually doing anything, it's a success, and it just needs scaling up. Even if it's a totally shared bus network, it could have _some_ uses. Just depends on what speed is available and what it's really going to cost to get hooked in.

    I'd be a bit worried about the surges, though. Remember that a lightning bolt has already jumped through a mile or three (or more) of air, and blowing through your surge protector to eat your favorite game box isn't much more of a step.

    Yes, I know that power systems have exactly the same problem, it's just that they're generally designed to absorb small spikes, and sometimes folks forget the modem is another route for bored electrons.

    Best of luck to 'em.

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    1. Re:One point in its favor. by pe1rxq · · Score: 5, Informative

      Bandwidth has nothing to do with the current through a line (or not much....)
      A normal power line has been designed for 50hz (or 60hz) AC. A coax cable was designed for frequencies in the Mhz to Ghz range. A telephone line was designed for atleast several Khz (speach).
      The dampening of a power line will be far greater than a coax cable.
      The same is for shielding. A power line is very suceptable for interference from the outside and can radiate itself far more. That is why greater bandwidth (higher frequencies) will be a huge problem on these lines.
      Simply put: They weren't designed for this.

      Jeroen

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  3. Nortel by JohnnyComeLately · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a telecom Engineer working as a sys and network admin, this just sounds too out there to be viable. Nortel isn't one to trash a technological standard unless they've really tested it. There's quite a few issues with power spikes, power filters, etc that would seem to make this an unlikely competitor. Plus, the market is already crowded with cable, DSL, satellite, and wireless carriers (Sprint) providing WiFi ISP coverage.

  4. Single point of failure by Gary+Destruction · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Power loss will also mean communication loss. If a business is using broadband instead of T1, they risk losing communication in the event of a power failure. Sure, they probably have a UPS but that's not going to keep their WAN links alive.

    It's very scary to think of so many things being handled by one main line.

    1. Re:Single point of failure by mattjb0010 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If the power is gone, the communications are gone anyways, so where is the issue?

      I was over in the US when the recent blackout occurred. I still had about an hours worth of net access after the blackout occurred thanks to backup power on the network and the battery in my powerbook. So it's not necessarily gone.

  5. No Sydkraft Internet Service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Swedish company Sydkraft also offers the service.

    Sydkraft announced a copule of years ago that they would provide Internet over power line. Except for a small pilot project nothing ever happened.

    The reality is that PLC might be technically possible, but the cost of deployment is much higher than compeeting technologies such as: ADSL, Cable Internet and Wireless Local Loop (WLL).

    It seams that power companies like to run trials to test the technology, and make unrealistic press releases.

  6. Sounds like a scam to me by Evets · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It reminds me of a scam run on the US Government in the late 90's. Millions of dollars were granted to a company which had demonstrated such a system. Turns out it was nothing more than a RF modem.

    As I recall, the system was immune to scrutiny in order to protect the Intellectual Property of the company.

    Also... I remember several people citing the impossibility of broadband over power lines because of the interference caused by transformers on the above ground power lines. In order to enable broadband over power lines, you would have to either find a way to sustain a pure signal through the existing hardware (deemed impossible), or design and add a piece of hardware at every transformer.

    I read about this in Wired if anyone cares to go searching for it. The article was entitled Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, printed at some point in 2002, but I was unsuccessful in locating the article in a brief attempt at searching their online archive.

  7. It's not all good... by JimDog · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think it's been mentioned here on slashdot before, but broadband-over-powerline systems have many drawbacks. Because power lines are not shielded, they will act as very effective radiating antennas for the signals they carry. Many of the proposed broadband systems utilize frequency ranges that overlap military, emergency, commercial and amateur radio bands, with the potential to cause a great deal of harmful interference to users of those services. Many countries, including Japan, the UK, and the Netherlands have already rejected broadband-over-powerline technology for this reason. Check out this page for more info:
    http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/

  8. Shocking prediction by lewko · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can't WAIT to see AOL users shoving Ethernet cables into their power socket.

    "You've got Bzzzztttttaaaarrrrggghhhhhhhhhh"

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