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Phoenix's BIOS Roadmap

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the whole-lotta-acronyms dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Phoenix Technologies Ltd. unveiled a vision and roadmap for a next generation of system BIOS firmware that the company calls "core system software" today, at its Strategy 2004 conference. As defined by Phoenix, CSS is a new category of core system firmware that transcends the boundaries of traditional BIOSes and to deliver "extensible firmware that provides the critical foundation of trust, manageability, and connectivity required for networked computing," in a broad range of devices including desktop and laptop PCs, servers, and handhelds gadgets. Specific technologies that Phoenix is integrating into its d-NA CSS firmware include: support for the Trusted Computing Group (TCG) specification, remote diagnostics and error-checking, intelligent configuration checking and integrated system policy management, automated provisioning of servers and server virtualization, "radically enhanced" device power management, embedded TCP/IP, remote management functions including dynamic provisioning, load balancing and software resource control, and an XML and SOAP standards-based interface to CSS functions."

25 of 337 comments (clear)

  1. Thanks but no thanks Phoenix.. by grub · · Score: 5, Interesting


    Trust -- [...] In addition, Phoenix d-NA will incorporate a new class of Windows-advantaged components that leverage the Microsoft CryptoAPI (CAPI) to provide unprecedented trust and intrinsic security for systems running Windows and .NET applications.

    If this crap cannot be disabled then I guess I won't be using Phoenix BIOSes in the future. This whole "trust" nonsense is a thinly veiled attempt at shifting some of the security-onus from the OS to the hardware with the blessing of Microsoft along with the side "benefit" of Digital Rights Management.

    This may start a whole new style of hacking; releasing BIOSes for flashing which have the DRM/Trust shite removed.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Thanks but no thanks Phoenix.. by Araneas · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Not quite.
      A recent Slashdot discussion worried that Microsoft is "taking over the BIOS." But are Phoenix and Microsoft likely to be the sole beneficiaries of CSS firmware?

      "It's not just us -- the industry is pointed in this direction," noted Eades.

      According to Eades, Phoenix intends to publish a technical overview of what CSS is and what services it provides, which will enable other operating systems besides Microsoft's to make use of CSS functionality, including Linux.

      But I agree with your point. In a zero sum game, if Windows is "advantaged" someone's getting screwed. Could we be looking at another DR. DOS this time in BIOS. No thank you.
    2. Re:Thanks but no thanks Phoenix.. by dslbrian · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This whole "trust" nonsense is a thinly veiled attempt at shifting some of the security-onus from the OS to the hardware with the blessing of Microsoft along with the side "benefit" of Digital Rights Management.

      I agree with you. This sounds like a lock-in to MS compliant hardware, and forced DRM. I'll cast my vote by giving my money to a different BIOS vendor...

      Interestingly this might give a boost to the open BIOS movement. When MS started locking people in with "authentication" of their OS and office products, there was a discernable jump in the popularity of OpenOffice.

    3. Re:Thanks but no thanks Phoenix.. by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is certainly where LinuxBIOS comes in. One day those who wish to run a 100% DRM-free system may be forced to purchase hardware for its LinuxBIOS compliance :) I should think there would be an easier way to make sure you're not using anything that requires DRM, however, if that's your objection.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Thanks but no thanks Phoenix.. by cpghost · · Score: 2, Interesting

      will anyone stay 'rogue' and avoid DRM, or will everyone conform

      Nobody is forced to buy Phoenix DRM-crippled BIOSes. There are plenty of manufacturers abroad (China, Taiwan, Eastern Europe, hell, even Old Europe!) that will be more than happy to sell you unencumbered BIOSes. Not everyone cowers before US laws and the DRM cartell (unless you come and invade those countries too).

      --
      cpghost at Cordula's Web.
    5. Re:Thanks but no thanks Phoenix.. by Usquebaugh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      FPGA Yes it's not real silicon but it's the best we can do at present. So fscking use it instead of bitching about no fab. We are never going to have a fab, get over, move sideways and continue. Once upon a time there was no GNU C compiler did people sit around wringing their hands, or did they use the tools they had and write one? People moan about no open source 3D support in Linux, well pick up an AGP based FPGA and implement one. DVD encoding, Factoring, etc PCI based FPGA. FPGA are cheap enough that any hardware hacker should have at least one installed in his PC. The more people that have them the cheaper they become. The more apps that are written for them, the more people will want them. So stop whining and go get yourself a FPGA.

    6. Re:Thanks but no thanks Phoenix.. by DGolden · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am fully aware of FPGAs, thanks. After all, I did link to opencores... But I've yet to see an FPGA CPU competitive with a dedicated silicon CPU. While one could argue that that's irrelevant, because with a few more FPGAs you could do a lot of the work that the CPU normally does, that would require a change of programming model, and overcoming the MHz myth, to actually get people to use the damn machines.

      And that's unfortunate, because it's the CPU that Intel and AMD will be embedding their betrayware in, not the BIOS (which just needs to support the CPU-silicon betrayware).

      --
      Choice of masters is not freedom.
    7. Re:Thanks but no thanks Phoenix.. by vigilology · · Score: 4, Interesting
      This whole "trust" nonsense is a thinly veiled attempt at shifting some of the security-onus from the OS to the hardware with the blessing of Microsoft along with the side "benefit" of Digital Rights Management.

      If this keeps up, the meaning of the word 'trust' is going to change, more so than 'gay' has.

    8. Re:Thanks but no thanks Phoenix.. by Mattcelt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nope, unfortunately. Phoenix, IIRC, is the largest provider of BIOS hardware out there. They specialize in OEM BIOS sales - nearly every Gateway or Dell computer I've ever seen had a Phoenix BIOS. I have already refused to purchase Phoenix-brand BIOSes for years because they lack functionality which is present it nearly every other mfg's BIOS.

      Ironically, they also own the brand Award (my favorite BIOS), which is more fully-functioned than most (if not all) other mfgs. But when Phoenix DRM creeps its way into AWARD_SW, I will be sure to purchase another, unencumbered brand.

    9. Re:Thanks but no thanks Phoenix.. by kisielk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sorry man, but FPGA's are not cheap at all. Even a small to mid density FPGA on an evaluation board costs $500-$700 USD. If you want an FPGA with enough performance and a high enough clock rate to do something like 3D graphics, you're looking at that same price, but just for the chip alone, nevermind memory etc. If you were to purchase an entire board, or build one yourself, you're looking at a $1600-$3000 investment, depenind on the features you want.

      Additionally, an AGP interface is not exactly a trivial thing to implement, and getting a license for a PCI or AGP core costs several thousand dollars as well.

      I think we can safely say that open source FPGA hardware is well out of the reach of the vast majority of Linux / other OSS operating system users. Even if someone managed to implement all these devices, paying for the boards for all of them would costs 5-10x as much as a PC does now, a premium I'm sure most people are not willing to pay just to get open hardware.

    10. Re:Thanks but no thanks Phoenix.. by Uma+Thurman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A long time ago I have a pentium-133 that would not boot from a CD-ROM. I bought a Mr. Bios upgrade and that fixed the problem. It looks like they are in the same business, and you can still buy new BIOS chips for your computer. The brand then and now is "Unicore".

      BTW, the Mr. Bios had about 3 times as many configuration options as the old AMI bios that I replaced. And the manual it came with explained them quite well. For $70 I thought it was a good product, and it extended my use of my motherboard for 3 years.

      --
      This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
  2. Linux BIOS by cbrese · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe it's time to start helping out/using LinuxBIOS. I went to SCALE over the weekend and saw a interesting presentaion on LinuxBIOS, it has lots of benifits over other commercial BIOS's.

  3. Useless layer of crap. by aardvaark · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is braindead. Introducing a huge layer of complexity between the OS and hardware etc. Really the job of the BIOS should be to do as little as necessary and then hand things off to the OS. Does a BIOS truly need a TCP/IP stack? Perhaps it is time to put a bit more effort in to linuxBIOS.

    --
    If I had no sense of humor, I would long ago have committed suicide. -Ghandi
  4. great, more viruses! by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Most of the viruses lately have been of the email-you-are-dumb variety. I'd been wondering where all the excellent boot sector and hardware level viruses of the 1980s and early 1990s had gotten to.

    I couldn't stand yet-another I-love-you clone. I want some real destruction!

  5. Where is the Kitchen Sink? by Kindaian · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I want a kitchen sink included in the BIOS!!!

    Really... why not scrap all that and add a JVM instead... That at least would be usefull...

  6. I'm waiting for... the real McCoy by fruey · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I'm just waiting for the article where someone hacks one of these BIOSes to be a self contained web server serving off a ramdisk using just low level BIOS calls and the inbuilt TCP/IP stack.

    Seeing that take a slashdotting is what we're really interested in... totally in the spirit of slash (TM)

    --
    Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
  7. That's why PCs rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The hardware architecture of the PC IS the open architecture as apposed to Apple, etc. One could argue that MS uses the software to reclose the architecture, but the PCs near ubiquitous nature is due to its open architecture. MS bet on the open hardware architecture and won big.

  8. manageability is useless. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What value is the manageability component if there's no supervisory CPU (a'la something like a PC Weasel ) so you can actually get to the management interface when your OS is hung in a bad way. Real computers have always had supervisory CPU's. I don't see why the PC world refuses to get it right.

  9. Crypto API != DRM by MadMirko · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Crypto API is designed to give your applications a consistent and secure way to encrypt data by asymetric encryption. Support in hardware is designed to speed this process up.

    It might be used instead of PGP to encrypt your home directory, you can use it to securely communicate over networks, you can use it to generate great passwords.

    That it's there is a good thing (tm), but someone might use it to keep stuff from you.

    "Welcome to the real world".

  10. This isn't new.... by The_K4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Intel has been working on EFI since 1998. This is just a rip off of that.

  11. Speaking of trustworthy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    How do I know that they won't resurrect this:
    http://www.cexx.org/phoenix.htm

    and then hide it behind the hardware protection scheme to keep me from finding/disabling it?

    Phuck you, Pheonix. You have already demonstrated how trustworthy you are!

  12. BIOS = OS? by gone.fishing · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With the number of features and calls that they are adding, their BIOS is getting close to being an operating system. Frankly, I see this as a good thing for Open Source.

    The BIOS does not need to be "open" in order for Open Source to take advantage of this. By necessity they will have to publish their calls and protocols to allow the BIOS to be as effective as it can be. Using this information, Opne Source projects can have direct access to this "mini-os" and be able to build whatever they please around it.

    Will this spell the end for Windows? I doubt it. But it may help level the playing field a bit.

  13. Re:Microsoft is going to become Apple? by jceaser · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Microsoft should (IMHO) take over the bios market. Now, before you go and flame me I should tell you that I have no love of MS (Mac fan here - o the shame of it all). But the one thing that I love about Apple is that they take change and make changes to the hardware to insure the BIOS (we call it "Open Firmware" is up to date and actually functional, unlike PCs. You have no true leader, only many highly influential players all struggling to defeat each other with competing "standards" (and I use that term loosely). I have very little respect for a computer that can not network at the BIOS level or manage anything other than a 20 meg (I forget the real number) hard drive or a floppy with out resulting to extensions (hacks). Your BIOS needs to be trashed and updated and who better than the industry leader. You don't want small insignificant players mucking around with this layer of code, it can only serve to fragment an already hopelessly fragmented market. If they can come out with an open product like Apple's Open Firmware than good for them (so long as they don't prevent anyone from installing a real os).

    Remember kids, having an industry leader does not always mean tyranny. Sometimes having an industry leader simply means less anarchy. Hopefully you have a chance for a decent solution. So be careful of assuming that MS "leading" the industry in a particular direction is bad. You PC people desperately need a new BIOS and someone has to write it and get everyone to agree.

    But as a side note: if you insist on buying PC's with all their problems, why do you get complain when you end up with an Piece of Crap. If you want true freedom from MS, buy SG, Sun, Apple, or anything else that does not run windows (or not designed in 1980) otherwise you are nothing more than a hopelessly entrapped user. I don't want to start a flame, I just don't understand why any would willfully buy a computer which has advanced very little since it was originally designed and I see BIOS as a prime example of outdated technology that PC people just can't seem to overcome like users of other vendors have.

  14. Re:Microsoft is going to become Apple? by gillbates · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If you are not in this group, fine, just buy another board, or buy the board, and _don't install Windows_.

    Which is precisely the problem: if Microsoft has their way, this won't be an option.

    The reason why Microsoft wants this so badly is because this would enable Microsoft to charge annual or quarterly subscription fees for their OS. If the PC can't run any other OS, then the PC owner must pay whatever Microsoft demands.

    I just bought a Toshiba laptop with Windows XP. The system is horrible; Explorer crashes constantly, networking works only occasionally, and it's already been infected by the MSBlaster virus. The DRM "features" mean that even though I've got a DVD player, I can't take screenshots. And the best part? It can't read CD-R's burned on other machines(DRM???).

    Fortunately, I was able to install RedHat 9, and now I've got a functional system again.

    However, this might not legally be an option in the future. Consider for example the Lexmark case: Lexmark sued Static control because Static control had to copy the Lexmark handshake code in order to get their cartridges to work with Lexmark printers. Now imagine that instead of printers, it's a PC, and the BIOS requires a digital handshake before it loads an OS. Microsoft of course could pay royalties to the BIOS companies for the copyrighted handshake code. Linux, OTOH, could not. In order to distribute Linux, one would have to distribute the copyrighted handshake sequence; the threat of DMCA action would prevent Linux from even being distributed. (Even if FSS/OS proponents could win the court case, the BIOS companies could enjoin the distribution of Linux until after the case was resolved, effectively killing it.) If Linus found a way around doing the secure handshake, his kernel would be illegal as a circumvention device - in which case, he could be prosecuted criminally by the government.

    And Microsoft would gladly pay the small royalty, because doing so would mean that the consumer could not legally install an OS other than theirs. And considering Microsoft's abuse of power in the past, does anyone really think that they won't charge rent for their OS's? The availability of alternate OS's has prevented this in the past, but with this gone, they will be free to charge as much as they want in annual royalties.

    If this "Trusted Computing" initiative ever becomes a BIOS standard, private ownership of PC's will be a thing of the past - yes, you paid for the hardware, but you can't legally turn on the machine without a lease from Microsoft.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
  15. Phoenix's poor track record on privacy by hama · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Phoenix has mad several attempts to invade the privacy of PC end-users.

    See
    Phoenix Phone Home. 2001-06-19
    and

    Phoenix to embed bootup ads in BIOS
    on Slashdot.

    Phoenix, with its subsidary Award, is the largest player in the BIOS market. The only other big player is AMI.