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Canadian Music Industry Wants Royalties on Net Usage

Dr. Zoidburg writes "Apparently Internet music and movie sharing in Canada has gained enough popularity to turn the heads of the music and movie industry. CTV has a report about a Canadian organization named SOCAN (Society of Composers, Authors, and Music Publishers of Canada) that will "ask the Supreme Court of Canada next week to force Internet service providers to pay them royalties for the millions of digital music files downloaded each year by Canadians". Says the president of the Canadian Association of Internet Providers, "Consumers could very well see an increase in their Internet costs and they could see a slowdown in the transmission speed of their Internet communications"."

10 of 572 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds reasonable by Rat's_ass_donor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Relatively speaking, of course. If "Screw the big labels, who overcharge for music and cannot assemble a coherent internet strategy - I'll just get it for free" is a reasonable response to the status quo, then a blanket tax on traffic to "reclaim lost media revenue" is also reasonable.

    1. Re:Sounds reasonable by timeOday · · Score: 3, Interesting
      hy was DeCSS developed for Linux? Because there was nothing else available to do the job. In case anybody has been living in a cave for the past ..... well, however long it was ..... here's the background.
      I have my own little DeCSS story from just last night. My brother (living in another state) called because he couldn't play a DVD on his computer. He had the software on Windows to play it, but it would bomb out and refuse to play because the TV-Out on the card was enabled. Huh? Where is it written you can't use a computer to play DVDs to a television? But he just wanted to watch on the computer, so he hunted around and we couldn't find any option to disable the TV out. (He has an integrated video card; I doubt if it even has a TV out connector anyways).

      Fortunately as an apprentice computer nerd he already had an installation of Linux. I suggested he avoid all the BS by installing mplayer, which he did, and it worked. My relatives visiting at his place were mighty impressed.

      I also use DeCSS-derived products to copy movies to my laptop hard drive, so I can put an extra battery in the drive bay, and save on the power and noise of the DVD-Rom when flying.

      I think DeCSS is great.

  2. Re:In Canada. by TC+(WC) · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Look at the laws. What you're allowed to copy isn't linked in any functional way to what you pay the levy on, in the law. The law also doesn't have anything to say about the source that one copies from.

    The Copyright Board has actually found that the source needn't be a legitimately purchased or owned medium for a perfectly legal personal copy to be made. There's no reason downloading music shouldn't be covered by the existing legislation. You run into trouble if you start uploading music, though, as it violates the legal restrictions on usage of a personal copy. It violates, off the top of my head, the prohibitions on transmitting copies across a telecommunications system as well as the prohibition on distributing your personal copies.

    The gist of it is, uploading is sure as hell illegal under the current legislation, but downloading is fine unless some magic way to argue against it is found.

  3. As a Canadian resident ... by Tripster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... I feel like freakin' moving!

    This is the first I'd heard SOCAN had gotten this far and quite frankly I'm pissed. I don't even have a P2P app installed in my computer, my MP3 collection consists solely of my own CD collection and is in that format for ease of access.

    What's next? Royalties on showerheads, shower curtains and bathtubs in case we happen to mumble out a tune while showering?

    The problem with our Supreme Court is they'll likely side with SOCAN and we'll end up paying. This is the same court who sided with our domestic DTH satellite providers and outright made it illegal to subscribe to US services in our country, yup for years we did our darndest to broadcast signals behind the iron curtain but when it comes to protecting a few broadcasting monopolies it's ok to ban foreign signals.

    Shit we don't get to vote for a new government until next spring but the media have all pretty much named the new PM who is just the guy taking over from the retiring PM, lucky for us in the rest of the country it only takes Ontario and Quebec to vote in the same idiots time after time, the new guy is very pro big business, heck in his private career he made an effort to get around Canadian tax laws by using ships registerd at foreign ports, just the guy to put in charge!

  4. Could be good news by ajs318 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is a way that the Canadian people could actually end up having a sorted system if this does become law. Unfortunately it requires a high degree of faecal unity on the part of many people.

    While this is going on, you could lobby your MPs {assuming that is what they are called in Canada} to ensure that if any royalty fees are charged on downloaded music, they should be payable directly to the performer {assuming the performer is the copyright holder} and not exceed the amount that would have been paid had the songs downloaded been obtained on the least expensive pre-recorded medium available {whether this be cassette, CD, LP, MiniDisc or To Be Invented}. If Avril Lavigne {faute de mieux} gets x cents when I buy one of her albums, I don't see why it makes any difference to Avril Lavigne if I just make a copy of the album and pay her the same x cents directly. I mean ..... obviously it makes a difference to the record company - just like it makes a difference to McDonalds when you eat at Burger King.

    And, of course, in the case of unauthorised downloading, you would only ever be held liable for those x cents per track - not the thousands of dollars the RIAA conjures up out of thin air. Call me quaint and old-fashioned, but if you steal a dollar you should pay back a dollar; or at the worst no more than what would buy when you come to pay it back,whatever a dollar would have bought when you stole it.

    It would be interesting to see exactly what objections anyone could raise to this proposal. I've even come up with a name for it: non-discriminatory licencing. Basically, if an artist allows a record company to package up and distribute their work for a fee, they have to allow anyone to do the equivalent job for the same fee; anybody's money is as good as anybody else's.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  5. Re:Whoooah by weicco · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In Finland we have been paying "Teosto-payment" (Teosto, Finnish Composers' Copyright Society) from C/VHS-cassettess and CD-Rs (and I think from DVD-Rs alos) for ages. If you can prove that you won't use these medias to store copyrighted material you can get your money back from Teosto by filling an application. I'm not really sure how this works though.

    But this leads to interesting dilemma. Am I automatically criminal when I'm supposed to pay such payments when buying CDRs? I thought person was _not_ guilty until otherwise prooved.

    --
    You don't know what you don't know.
  6. Cabs, churchgoers and kids will pay license fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Yes, of course these people think everyone's a criminal.

    The taxi companies must pay Teosto license fee if their drivers wish to keep the radio on when they've got a customer in the car. It doesn't matter if the broadcaster already paid for the songs...

    They also tried to extort money from kindergartens, schools and churches for the copyrighted children songs/hymns that were being sung by the kids and churchgoers. That didn't go through - yet. I bet they'll try again soon.

  7. Re:I don't think he quite got it by BeneathTheVeil · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You mean, humour, right? ...this is an article about Canada, after all.

    Kidding aside, your post did make me realize I should clarify a little bit... obviously, if the music is freely available, and there is no commercial version of it (on CD, CD-R, as pay-for downloads, or any other media)... then it wouldn't make sense to expect money. I should only expect a percentage of what I charge for the songs.

    I do however, have a commercial disc coming out in December, and another in February/March... neither of these, will be available as free downloads (of course, I will have no problem with people ripping, and sharing the music... if they don't make money from it, then there is no harm done for me... quite the opposite, it means more potential fans, and potential CD sales)... so at that point, since we can assume the music will be traded eventually, one way or another, I can assume that I would be owed some of this 'tax'.

    Of course, we all know 'indie' artists will never see a cent... not without making a lot of noise about it, at any rate.

  8. Programmers Unite! by zpok · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here's the thing:

    I don't mind those taxes on blank CD's and wouldn't mind taxes on bandwidth. As long as they are for the end user minimal in impact. No tax should stiffle growth.

    But the stupid thing is: why should the music industry have sole benefit?

    Come on, guys/grrls! Programmers Unite!

    A shitheap of illegal and legal downloads and copies are made of your work.

    In the end, if the money is well spent I say: "More power to you", but for every ten CD's I burn, maybe one is music - LEGALLY aquired, thankyouverymuch - and the rest is backups, pictures, my own work and programs. I actually don't think I'm very different in this than most people.

    Cheers

    --
    I think, therefore I am...I think.
  9. Small minds have short memories by webweave · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I see this same idea again and again and I HATE it.

    So, because something has worked for the last fifty to one hundred years that is how it must always be? Just keep a bad idea on life support for about a generation and that's it you can go to court and be declared a national necessity.

    It is not the artist but the industry that has popped up to support the commercialization of music that are in trouble here and since they all have skills other than being artist they should be able to find work in other industries. End of story. Thanks music biz, it was nice knowing you but as of about now you are all dinosaurs. You have to do what so many others before you have done, go somewhere else and get a job.

    Now back to the artist, my friend is in a band that has been around for over twenty years. They have had a few "record deals" but have always kept ownership of the music. They tell me they have always made more money touring and selling from the fan club than any contract. Now with the internet they are making more money than ever and the fan club (paid members) is the largest it has ever been.

    It is the opinion of this band that "music sharing" helps them because they would never get on the radio any way or not enough to help but when someone finds their music and likes it, it eventually leads them to the web site or a show and that, is what brings in the money.

    So this proposed tax (and that is what it is, Canadian's have a problem being honest with taxation) will increase costs to the consumer, devalue what ever funds are collected (the cost to process this tax), and what little gets back will likely go into the wrong hands.

    Now more bad effects, by propping up a dying system with tax dollars you not only put off the enviable but the wasted (now) tax dollars put a negative effect on the economy, exactly the opposite effect you were hoping for in the first place. Gee thanks.