Embedded Device Manufacturers Ignoring GPL

swillden writes "Iain Barker and some other Linux Kernel Mailing List readers have discovered that several manufacturers of DVD players based on the Sigma Designs EM8500 chipset are distributing Linux, both in the devices and as binary-only firmware upgrades, but not providing source. Apparently, Sigma Designs provides its customers with a copy of the kernel as part of a chipset SDK, and those customers are making and selling devices without complying with the terms of the GPL. It's not clear if this is because Sigma didn't tell its customers about the GPL and their obligations, or if they're all ignoring it on their own. Maybe they've all bought licenses from SCO and therefore don't have to comply with the GPL? The LKML post contains a list of some of the infringers."

Comments

Re:Have they hacked the kernel?

[EvanED]

*Takes bait*

It doesn't matter if you don't modify the kernel; if you distribute it, you must provide source.

Re:How do they know the GPL is being violated?

[Bruce Perens]

You have to distribute source whether or not it's a derivative work.

Bruce

Re:time to prove GPL's right in court

[3Suns]

No reason to wait... This kind of thing has happened many times before. You send 'em a "comply or desist" letter, which should weed out all those infringing due to ignorance. So far, all GPL infringment cases have been settled out of court, which is why everybody's saying it's "untested in court". In reality, no lawyer in their right mind would actually try to fight the GPL. It's not like this issue's never come up before.

Re:time to prove GPL's right in court

[zulux]

why can't you just ignore the GPL?

As a user... you can ignore the GPL. You can use the software as you see fit.

As a distributer of GPL'ed software - you have to get permission from the copyright holder to copy the software, or, if you'd like, follow the terms of the GPL.

With an EULA, you have to get permission from the copyright holder to copy the software. (Fat chance). Or.... nothing. EULA's don't give you permission to copy software at all.

At Lest Kiss Technology...

[cacepi]

Is in compliance, or at least appear to be.

Re:How do they know the GPL is being violated?

[Bruce Perens]

And by the way, if you don't distribute the source with the product, you must include a written offer with the product, valid for 3 years, to distribute the source to anyone who asks. If that product doesn't come with source and doesn't come with that offer, they are in violation right now.

Bruce

Re:How do they know the GPL is being violated?

[whoever57]

The GPL doesn't state that distributors have to supply source with all products, only that it is supplied on request.

To comply fully with the GPL you have to offer the source code. The GPL is quite explicit about this: when you distribute a binary, you have to tell people how they can get the source code and the offer has to accompany the binary distribution.

Re:Define distribution

[Bruce Perens]

Well, what happens when you sell or give away a computer with Windows? At the very least, you should give the person those pages with the holograms and activation passwords, and the licenses. Oh, but some of those licenses don't permit resale! So you have to remove the software before you sell the computer.

In the case of a computer with Linux, if you give it away you fall under 3(c) of the GPL, and only have to pass on the source-code offers that were given you. If you sell it, you fall under 3(a) and 3(b), so you either distribute the source code with the computer or make an offer to do so valid for 3 years.

Me, I'd wipe the disk, put on a fresh install, and give the buyer the CD set.

Bruce

Re:Keep this within reason, please.

[Pius II.]

Nope, the GPL says "offer [...] to give any third party [...] a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code". That could for example be a little slip of paper, saying "You can download the Linux kernel source at $company_url".
There's normally already lots of little slips inside a generic DVD player package, saying things like "If you can read this, your warranty is void" and other stuff, so one more shouldn't bring the cost up by too much.

Re:No doubt the OEMs have not been told

[Bruce Perens]

Actually, my personal agenda comes into these cases less than you might think. Before I get to talk, the witnesses are all deposed. Then I read the depositions. Then I get to sum up to the judge what went wrong, who was responsible, and what it should cost. The other expert does the same, and the judge decides who is more convincing.

I can't lie under oath. And I have to deal with discovery - the fact that the court can force me to give my opinion whether it is to the customer's advantage or not.

So, when I think my testimony would damage them, I have once or twice told a customer - you don't want me to work on this any longer, and you don't want to know why. And they know not to probe farther.

Thanks

Bruce

LiteOn Phomaster LVD2001 DVD Player

[acousticiris]

I purchased this DVD player late last summer and discovered the Linux kernel present on the upgrade BIOS disc.

This is the response I got from them:
----
From: DCTW_Service@liteonit.com
Subject: Re: Request for GPL Code
Dear Sir,

Sorry at the present, we don't provide the source code.
Thanks for your understanding.

Best Regards!
----
Of course, my understanding isn't important. The copyright owner's understanding is what matters.
I decided to e-mail the folks at the FSF for a follow up. I assumed that was the place to go, though I admit even today, that I'm not exactly sure sometimes.
Here was the response from them:
----
From: license-violation@fsf.org Subject: [gnu.org #114549] Linux GPL Code Violation - LiteOn Phomaster LVD-2001
For some reason, your mail never reached my inbox (indeed, the web interface to our RequestTracker seems to be having a bit of a hard time with it too). So, sorry for the late response.

We've already seen a few violations which look to be the same product as this under different packaging. We will add LiteOn to the list of people to write to about this. Thanks for the report.

--
-Dave "Novalis" Turner
GPL Compliance Engineer
Free Software Foundation
----
The whole process was really quite daunting from my perspective. It is my understanding that the Linux Kernel is not a GNU product (though much of the software in a typical linux distrubtion is). Being a linux/GPL/FSF/GNU newbie, it took me quite a bit of time to hunt down a place to submit my complaint. Does anybody know of a database of copyright owners who use the GPL, and more importantly a convenient location for notifying said individuals when a breach is found or suspected? Even the FSF site didn't have a spot that was blaringly obvious to someone who had never visited the site before for reporting GPL violations of their software.
I will say, its nice to see some attention being payed to this with regard to my DVD player. Not to advertise for the theifs, but its a great player...the new BIOS even allows one to play ogg encoded files written to a DVD or CF card. I'm interested, obviously, in getting my hands on the code and potentially flashing the BIOS with my own handy-work...maybe see if I can get the thing to take a hard drive or wireless network adapter in its PC card slot.