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SSC Trademark Threats vs LinuxGazette.net
Zelligar writes "You may want to check into the brewing trademark issues between SSC/linuxgazette.com and the linuxgazette.net people - linuxgazette is a volunteer gazette, hosted by SSC for a while, and now SSC is taking it over - and threatening trademark litigation to boot!
Here is one story and another on the subject."
Don't worry. SCO will sue SSC out of business. For one thing, it is involved with Linux. For another, it sounds too much like SCO anyway (both in name and action)
There can only be ONE company that files frivolous lawsuits about Linux!!!!
They are required by law to proactively defend their trademark or they lose the protection. This story brings me to conclude that it must be a slow news day.
Black and grey are both shades of white.
I've read both aritcles and I'm still confused. What the heck is the point and why should I care? Its not the least bit interesting. If we could mod article submissions i would moderate this one -1 boring. If there was such a choice. I've submitted many articles that were much more interesting only to have them rejected. I guess this must be a slow news day.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Correct me if I'm wrong:
.. what if SCO started using something like "L1nux" for their new OS eh? :P
Summary:
1. Things changed at linuxgazette.com
2. Some contributers didn't like it (neither do I), and started their own site.
3. They were bright enough to use linuxgazette.net (of all places) for their new site. (even stealing the logo design)
4. linuxgazette.com doesn't like it, and tells linuxgazette.net to start their own site if they want, but not with the linuxgazette name.
5. linuxgazette.net doesn't agree, and the threats start to fly
(6. Profit?)
All very reasonable if you ask me
The path I walk alone is endlessly long.
30 minutes by bike, 15 by bus.
Apparently a group of volunteers has decided to fork the Linux Gazzette website and didn't bother to change the name of it. This doesn't sound like a big draconian company taking over a volunteer publication and beginning to sue everyone in site. It's more of a proper use of trademark law to me.
Who owns the trademark?
Is it a valid trademark?
If the volunteer organization used the name linuxgazette before it was registered by SSC, it is likely not a valid trademark.
I love to see litigation happy companies lose and come out behind.
The Word Wresting Federation against the World Wildlife Fund was fun.
See http://linuxgazette.net/ for the traditional Linux Gazette. Ah, feel at home? Good.
http://linuxgazette.net/issue96/reborn.html is part of their side of the story.
Personally, I think the CMS site sucks and goes against the spirit of what Linux Gazette has been for years.
Anything is possible given time and money.
But what if it was not a copycat site but a site made by some of the people who who ran the first site?
This is about a volunteer project, and the projecst has split. Who is to say which of the two groups can keep the name and which cannot?
Sebastian
If anyone wants to make this even more ridiculous, the linuxgazette.org domain name is still up for grabs. It would be funny to see what the forkers think of their site being forked.
If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
The solution is obvious, AOL CD duel at dawn
Walk ten paces from each other, turn and hurl AOL CDs at each other, the first one to decapitate the other is the winner
(Well its one use for the CDs)
Music is everybody's possession.
It's only publishers who think that people own it.
Fuck Beta
~John Lenno
> linuxgazette.com was first, and linuxgazzete.net is a ripoff of the .com
Of course the website "linuxgazette.com" existed before; but now many (most? all?) of the volunteers who ran this project (and who see themselves as "Linux Gazette" have created a new site, since the old one is no longer under their control. The company who once offered to host it now claims to own it. Read the linuxgazette.net side of the story at http://linuxgazette.net/issue96/reborn.html
Quote:
"SSC, the company who had been hosting - and, to some degree, supporting - our efforts since shortly after the inception of the Gazette has decided that it somehow belongs to them, to change, adapt - or to destroy - at their pleasure."
> The law. That's how it works, braniac.
But how do you know that the company is the rightful owner of the trademark and can do what it wants with it, without knowing about the agreements SSC had whith the linuxgazette people?
Just come up with a better name announce it on Slashdot with the URL and all is good. SSC can rot in hell with the "Linux Gazette" name.
I didn't use the preview button, so get over it!!!!
Mike
Does Microsoft own the trademark on NT magazine?
NT Magazine
As posted below, more info is found here : http://lwn.net/Articles/58065/
:
.net folks for continuing to use the name.
A lot of people aren't reading the links - here is a summary (again)
Linuxgazette.com - originally founded by a group of volunteers.
SSC offered to host them, whee - works great.
SSC took over editing at some point
SSC changed the entire look/feel of the site, trashed the articles at will, and basically started locking out the original founders.
the founders took their content to linuxgazette.net
SSC, in the form of linuxgazette.com, is unhappy with the
IMHO - SSC should be ashamed for its bullying tactics. They should change the name of linuxgazette.com to something else, and give it back to the founders.
The first link on the main article are the SSC guys' comments on this, and the second link is the linuxgazette founders (.net) replies to his comments.
:
.com folks WILL DELETE any posting with the linuxgazette.net address in it. The censor stuff as they see fit.
Here is a link to the linuxgazette.net with their side of the story
Linux Gazette, Reborn
Here are two links to the linuxgazette.com forums - lots of discussion in here from both sides. Be warned that the
Forum: Anyone prefer the old site?
Forum: New Site!
Note that if you browse around the forums, a lot of things are broken. To view the forums in expanded format, most recent postings at the top, add &mode=2 to the URL. For example:
http://www.linuxgazette.com/node/view/104&mode =2
Another LWN article
History of this problem
Why is it that everyone that has previously supported the linux community seems to becoming complete asshats, and are trying to "take over" the efforts of a hard-working community for their own profit? Just because something is "free" does not mean that you can steal it and call it your own. Copyright still applies. What rookies.
SCO, now LinuxGazette, and I don't know how many others. What clowns.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Is this the case I am reading about?
It seems that the heart of the creative effort was at first merely hosted by SSC. But then SSC made contributions of its own. Does making contributions constitute ownership? If so, what portion of ownership is warranted? Even if they can own "part" of the trademark, how can they justify an assertion of wholely owning something they did not create from the beginning?
Clearly there is more than meets the eye, but I feel there is essentially a common clash between commercial desires and those of serving a community. This is commonly mirrored by many things such as the community internet being overtaken by commercial interests at every turn.
I do not wish to "take sides" but I think it is important to note that since the presence of the Amish in Pennsylvania has helped to maintain the level of tourist income, I think it would be appropriate to hang signs advertising other business activities on all "public faces" of the Amish community. The Amish, after all, owe a good part of their success to their popularity as a tourist attraction. It is only fair that they "give back" by permitting advertisers to hand huge signs from the backs and sides of their carts, wagons, horses and barns. We do not feel that a sign reading, "This barn raised, in part, by Rice-a-Roni(tm) the San Francisco Treat!(tm)" would be at all out of place or out of the question.
What SSC has is a *application* for a trademark, and no doubt this will be a disputed application. I suggest that the linuxgazette.NET people write the PTO and explain their side of the story before the trademark publishes... although, they probably have several months to do so. Trademarks take quite a bit of time. SSC's attempt to do a last-minute trademark file and then sue is not only mean spirited, but stupid.o c&state=h prn5r.2.1
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=d
Word Mark LINUX GAZETTE
Goods and Services IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Publication of Journal. FIRST USE: 19950701. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19960801
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 78319880
Filing Date October 28, 2003
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Owner (APPLICANT) Specialized Systems Consultants, Inc. CORPORATION 2208 NW Market St Suite 407 Seattle WASHINGTON 98107
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
That seems to be on the Forkers Side - Just a hosting arangement.
but..
Seems to show that Fisk is turning it over to SCC. If that is the case then this is SCC's
You can seen in the write up where each side is getting their views
Net result, this could have all been handled with a little more tact on both sides. If SCC had just followed the wishes of the people who produced the article, this wouldn't have been a problem.
It should have been the creators of the work, the volunteers who should have been deciding on what direction the magazine should take. Not some marketroid who found way to suck $$, or techie who felt this was his site, and wanted to put up a CMS and/or excert his power.
Time travel is possible. We are quickly heading for 1984.
I too am sick of the greed happening here. Fact: Linux Gazette was started by people other than SSC. SSC later hosted it. That doesn't mean they own it, doesn't mean they own the name. If SSC can show some legal documents saying otherwise, please show them. But I doubt they have such. Unfortunatly, some overly trusting person permitted SSC to register and own the linuxgazette.com domain name. Given the likely lack of other documentary evidence, that may count for something if this actually goes to court. Hopefully the fact that Linux Gazette existed prior to SSC's involvement will count for more.
Another comment mentioned problems with their LJ subscription. I have subscribed since LJ was a thin little staple-bound magazine. I renewed my subscription yet again, a while ago, but the magazines stopped coming and I started getting bills. My AMEX card had been charged. So I figured no big deal, write email. I got a canned response stating that my payment had not been received. Responded that no, my card was charged, such and such date. No response. So I wrote a paper letter to their "customer service" address, with a copy of the AMEX statement and charge circled. No response. Sent another copy. No response. No magazines. Finally disputed it with AMEX, but too much time had passed.
Final resort: looked up SSC's corporate records, sent a certified letter to their registered legal address, with copy of prior letter/statement copy, and said please either send my money back, or I will sue you. That got a a nearly INSTANT response, and a phone call. But no apology, just a request to discuss "this issue." They restarted my subscription.
Given the poor customer service, the direction LJ has taken, and the behavior of SSC in this Linux Gazette issue, I won't be renewing my subscription either.
Larry
I would be shocked and surprised if a hosting company could acquire trademark rights to a web site merely by hosting the web site. If this were so then Rackspace.com would find itself right now in possession of a very large number of trademark rights. Now I agree that SSC provided free hosting instead of paid hosting, but I fail to see how the fact that SSC provided its hosting for free changes anything.
Likewise, although I realize SSC has contributed much effort to LG since SSC got involved with LG, I do not see these contributions establishing any trademark rights either. After all, *I* have contributed to LG before as well, and you don't see me going around asserting that I have trademark rights to LG.
SSC should do the right thing and admit that it has no trademark rights to the name LG, relinquish the linuxgazette.com domain to the founders of LG, and publish their CMS under some other name. It is clear to me that LG is not a CMS, never has been a CMS, and that SSC is going to have a very difficult time arguing that the CMS is truer to the LG name than the rival publication.
I should also point out that even if SSC somehow manages to win a legal case and keep the LG name, it will be blackballed by a sizable fraction (possibly even the majority) of the linux community, who, like me, view the founding volunteers of LG as the true keepers of the LG torch.
who *legally* has the right to the "Linux Gazette" name seems controversial at the very least. that being the case this is how i would approach resolving the situation.
if i were the Answer Gang i would offer SSC the option of having the Linux Gazette name in exchange for a prominent announcement (on the front page of linuxgazette.com) that due to a disagreement some of the contributors have created a new zine at linuxwhatever.???.
this would allow the readers to choose what to read.
if SSC doesn't agree to this i might persist in asserting ownership of the Linux Gazette name only as long as i didn't have to put any energy into doing so. if actions from SSC resulted in legal pressure to stop using the name i would let it go instead of putting up a fight (even though i might win the fight).
i would also request support from readers to publicize the name and location of the new zine. i would encourage readers to contact other readers and linkers to the Linux Gazette and point them to the new website.
in my personal experience a name is only a pointer to something that is real. when my good friend changed her name from alexis to ocean i didn't go looking for another friend named alexis.
readers were drawn to the Linux Gazette because of the writing not because of the name. there may be a lull in readership for the Answer Gang due to a domain name change but this probably won't be for very long. it actually seems like a great opportunity for the Answer Gang to manifest something that is more in line with their visions.
if there is a burden that is incurred as the result of the domain name change i suspect that there are some readers that would love to help minimize this burden.
if you are part of the Answer Gang and are reading this i encourage you to ask yourself: will fighting to keep the Linux Gazette name bring me joy? will rebirthing our zine bring me joy?
ask yourself these questions irrespective of whether or not you think each is achievable. if you choose to fight for the Linux Gazette name ask yourself these same questions again a day or a week later. if you regularly check-in with yourselves as this name controversy unfolds you will less likely find yourselves caught up in an activity that is draining.
peace
P.S.
it isn't a surprise to me that the SSC is behaving the way it is. it is a traditional top-down hierarchical for-profit organization. it's raison d'etre is to make money (i understand that this may not have been the reason the SSC was created). if you remember this then all of their current actions make a bit more sense.