Interviewing with the NSA

George Maschke writes "'Interviewing With an Intelligence Agency (or, A Funny thing Happened on the Way to Fort Meade)' is a humorous and entertaining account of one man's recent experience seeking employment with the National Security Agency (NSA). But this story, newly posted to the Federation of American Scientists website, is also one with a serious message. Written under the pseudonym 'Ralph J. Perro,' it includes discussion of the job interview, psychological testing, polygraph, and background investigation. It will be of interest to anyone contemplating employment with a federal intelligence agency."

Comments

Obligatory "CIA Interview" post

[tcopeland]

A while back there was an opening in the CIA for an assassin. These highly classified positions are extremely difficult to fill, requiring an extensive background check, training, and testing before candidates are even considered for the position. After reviewing several applicants and completing all the checks and training, the field was narrowed to the three most promising candidates. The day came for the final test, which would determine which of equally qualified candidates, would get the job.

The final candidates consisted of two men and one woman. The men administering the test took the first candidate, a man, down a corridor to a closed door and handed him a gun saying, "We must be completely assured that you will complete your assignments and follow instructions regardless of the circumstances. Inside this room you will find your wife, seated in a chair. Take this gun and kill her." The man, looking completely shocked said, "You can't be serious! I could never kill my wife." The CIA man said, "Well, then, you're obviously not the man for the job. Take your wife and go home."

They brought the next candidate in, the other man, and repeated the instructions. This man took the gun, walked into the room and closed the door. However, after five minutes of silence, the door opened and the man handed the CIA tester the gun, saying, "I just couldn't do it. I couldn't kill my wife. I tried to pull the trigger but I just couldn't do it." The CIA man said, "Well, then, you're obviously not the man for the job. Take your wife and go home."

Then they brought the woman down the corridor to the closed door, handed her a gun, and said, "We must be completely assured that you will complete your assignments and follow instructions regardless of the circumstances. Inside this room you will find your husband, seated in a chair. Take this gun and kill him." The woman took the gun, walked into the room, and before the door closed all the way, the CIA men heard the gun start firing. One shot after another, for thirteen shots, the noise continued. Then all hell broke loose. For the next several minutes, the men heard screaming, cursing, furniture crashing and banging on the walls; then suddenly, silence. The door opened slowly and there stood the woman.

She wiped the sweat from her brow and said, "You guys didn't tell me the gun was loaded with blanks! I had to beat him to death with the chair!"

Sample application question

[Octagon Most]

Sample application question:

Which of the following words does not belong with the others?

"Federal, Intelligence, Agency"

This is a repost that needs to be said....

[Greenisus]

Lie detectors are not effective. This is just being used to scare people into thinking they can't lie. I really wish more people knew more about psychology....

Re:This is a repost that needs to be said....

[mntgomery]

Lie detectors are not effective. This is just being used to scare people into thinking they can't lie.

Seems to me, if they scare people into thinking that, then they are effective. Not functional, but effective. ;)

Re:This is a repost that needs to be said....

[George Maschke]

You're right. Polygraph "testing" is a pseudoscientific fraud that is in the same league as phrenology and graphology. You'll find a thorough debunking of it on the website AntiPolygraph.org.

Re:This is a repost that needs to be said....

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps. But the NSA polygraphs are frightening.

I honestly dont think i would be too freaked out about some putz from a police station interviewing me, but when you are in a room with an NSA police officer who specializes in counter-intelligence and has been giving them for 15 years, it all feels really freaking scary.

I knew that i had nothing to worry about, and that polygraphs are inaccurate, but when taking an NSA polygraph, you have to remember you are dealing with the best, and people who activly train people evasion techniques. You cant help but feel a little scared, even though you are innocent of anything. Dont knock it till you've tried it :)

I applied, was offered a crypto position, and got sufficently annoyed/concerned after the polygraphs had dragged on for a few months, that i withdrew my application.

Working for the NSA sounds cool, until you get there and you feel a little too trapped.

Re:This is a repost that needs to be said....

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a tendency to view people in positions of power as something other than what they are. They are quite simply just people. In the case of the NSA, they are mostly techies just like you.

The problem with the NSA, like all government agencies, is bureaucracy not maleficence. They kept having you come back for polygraphs because some rubberstamper would give you a stamp of approval until your polygraph test was perfect. Even though everyone knows that a polygraph test is unreliable. What you should have done is taken some yoga classes and then you would have passed. But instead you continued to view the NSA officer as some Wizard of Oz type character so you could never pass the test.

Do not taunt happy-fun-ball.

Re:This is a repost that needs to be said....

[ajs318]

Defeating a polygraph test is easy. If you can obtain access to a polygraph machine of your own, you can prove this nicely.

The polygraph machine records various parameters {heart rate, skin resistance, movement} on a moving paper roll as a series of questions are asked. These questions fall in three distinct groups. Now let's pretend we have two candidates: Honest Jane {goody two-shoes} and Harry the Knife {low-life}, going for the same test, and look at their answers to each type of question.

1. Control Questions - e.g. "Have you ever lost your temper?" Jane answers truthfully "yes", Harry answers mendaciously "no".
2. Test Questions - e.g. "Have you ever stolen anything?" Jane answers truthfully "no", Harry answers mendaciously "no".
3. Dummy Questions - e.g. "Is it Friday today?" Jane answers truthfully "yes", Harry answers truthfully "yes".

Dummy questions are not the same as control questions, because the answer to a dummy question is obvious - even Harry cannot lie. But with the control questions, the "wrong" answer is less obvious. But even Jane must have lost her temper at some stage. Harry is obviously lying. A lie in response to a dummy question will be found out straight away. So the dummy questions appear to provide the calibration data. In fact, it is the control questions which determine the truthfulness or otherwise of the subject, because Harry and Jane would answer them differently. Even the test questions, where Harry and Jane would give the same, desirable answer, are not much use.

Most of the test is in the structuring of the questions, and the machinery is a prop. If you ever have to take a Polygraph test, this is what to do {assuming you don't have access to drugs, either stimulants or sedatives, which would balls up the result}. Imagine Jane and Harry. Run each question by both of them in your mind, and see how they would answer. Then say what Jane would say. You will pass the test with flying colours.

Re:This is a repost that needs to be said....

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything was going fine for me during the interview process at the NSA in the summer of 2001. I was hoping to get a position there, do some graduate studies (as part of the educational plan they offer), and then move onto Wall Street or continue at the NSA.

Thinking I had secured a position in either of a couple departments that I interviewed with, I spent the summer mountain biking rather than frantically searching for a job. I was confident that my background check would clear as I've never been in any legal trouble or anything of that nature.

I repeatedly "failed" the polygraph, the examiner claiming that I had committed some felony after the age of 18, that I had abused/sold/bought illegal drugs, and some other completely ridiculous claim. It was also probably a mistake to be conscious of my breathing, but it is difficult not to be since they strapped on the abdomen apparatus pretty tightly.

Perhaps it was all just a psychological exam, but apparently I didn't pass anyway (three times). I called them twice a week until they told me late October that they couldn't keep the positions open any longer and that my clearance was not finished. The Sept. 11 attacks probably did not help my situation either.

Now I've found myself at a large IT company in another country making less money than the average Wal-Mart cashier. For anyone applying for a job there, don't expect their process to be quick and make sure you have a current job that you can fall back on. Hope this bit of knowledge helps others.

Re:This is a repost that needs to be said....

[chihowa]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems like you're saying the best way to pas a lie detector test is to tell the truth!

Actually, I see what you're saying, but that was my first impression. Ironically, that's pretty true. If you can lie in the fashion as you tell the truth without getting bothered about it, it will be impossible to tell the difference. If you're scared, it's almost impossible not to give yourself away. You don't need a machine to tell if a scared person is lying, but as a parent up there said, the machine itself provides a good source of fear.

Ralph J. Perro?!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's my name, and I recently interviewed for a job with the NSA. I'm sooo dead.

Same in the UK

[Ianoo]

A friend of mine recently got a job at GCHQ, which is a bit like the British version of the NSA. You ought to see the number of forms he has to fill in... background info, more personal details than you can possibly imagine, and they're going to background check all of it. He put me down as a character reference, I might end up writing an essay about how trustworthy he is and getting inteviewed myself, and I'm not even the one applying for the frickin job!

Re:Same in the UK

[Threni]

> A friend of mine recently got a job at GCHQ, which is a bit like
> the British version of the NSA.

Heh - yeah, in the same way that the Monkees were an American version of the Beatles.

Just wondering ...

[rastakid]

Just wondering, but is it legal to post this sort of information? I would believe that this is classified to some sort of level, since the NSA doesn't want wannabee-feds to prepare for the (psychological-) tests. Makes sense he/she uses an pseudonym indeed, but is it really that way?

Re:Just wondering ...

[KrispyKringle]

That's silly. They can hardly classify an application process--then you would have to apply to be trusted enough to be shown the confidential application process.

Re:Just wondering ...

[Glock27]

So, the HR folks can just look up which recent interviewee requested a $60 transportation refund and they'll know his name

Yah, he also posted a Yahoo e-mail address which I'm guessing the NSA just might be able to penetrate... ;-)

and everything else there is to know about him..

Wow, I had no idea the NSA is that good!

I tried

[slyckshoes]

I interviewed with the NSA for a co-op when I was in college. It went great and I wanted to work for them, but I failed the polygraph. Not once, but twice. That would be fine if I was actually lying, but I told them all the bad things I had EVER done and I still couldn't pass. It said I was lying when I answered that I hadn't been involved in espionage, taken drugs, or committed major crimes. That was my first experience of what a confessional must be like. They called me back and offered to fly me out again to try and pass the polygraph, but I passed. That experience made me lose all confidence in the supposedly all-powerful polygraph test. It's a farce and it's about as effective as reading tea-leaves.

Re:I tried

[TheMidget]

but I told them all the bad things I had EVER done

That's the problem. Questions such as "did you ever steal candy when you were a kid" are so-called control questions, which are intended as a calibration tool for the polygraph. The idea is that everybody hoes done these, but nobody admits, so everybody will lie. Now they know what the subject's biological parameters are when he lies. This is important to have, as each person reacts differently.

Now, if you answer every control question truthfully (whether by admitting that you did indeed steal candy, or if you are one of those rare guys that really never did such a thing...) they have trouble properly calibrating the polygraph. So they might pick up just some general excitedness/exam-stress as a sign of lying, and if they find the same signs of excitedness in the real questions ("Do you work for al Qaeda"), they naturally assume that you are lying on that one as well...

Conclusion: to successfully pass a polygraph, you have to lie to some of the questions, or else they won't know the difference...

Re:I tried

[Garak]

I think the main point of the polygraph test isnt to see if your telling the truth but how you handle such a situation.

The author made many mistakes durning the interviews. The main one that comes to mind was getting in the car and answering questions without checking the persons ID and confirming they are from the NSA.

Little things like that are the real test, how careful you will be with secrets, who you trust, how normal do you look and how you react under pressure and stress.

Re:I tried

[AJWM]

Makes sense. If they can't calibrate the polygraph in your case, they can't tell whether you're just being very truthful, if you're so psychopathic that you don't care when you're lying (hence no physiological reaction), or if you've developed sufficient control over normally involuntary physical responses (eg through biofeedback training) that you're conciously suppressing a response to a lie.

Either way, it tells them that they can't tell when you're lying. Which, conversely, means they can't tell when you're telling the truth either. Which means they can't trust you enough to hire you -- no matter how trustworthy you really may be.

Re:I tried

[trixillion]

I had a friend go through the exact same experience when he was in finishing grad school. One of the smartest and most honest people I know. He failed the lie detector twice on the same set of questions. They just simply couldn't believe that he had never ever experimented with drugs.

Re:I tried

[dillon_rinker]

they have trouble properly calibrating the polygraph
Bingo.

So they might pick up just some general excitedness/exam-stress as a sign of lying,
BZZZT! Thanks for playing.

This is the NSA, not the Goober County Sheriff's office. If they can't calibrate, they realize they can't evaluate. The candidate is thus an unknown quantity. They look at the long line of applicants, most of whom are known quantities, and decide this one's not worth the trouble.

My experience

[olympus_coder]

I interviewed with the NSA. Government jobs have their advantages... In any case, as someone who wanted to get a Ph.D. and be a scientist (an now I'm about 3/4 of the way there), I decided against it because anything I ever wanted to publish after the fact would be subject to government sensors due to the clearance you must have to work for the NSA. I declined the initial offer they made (the one before they do the expensive background investigation) so I didn't go through any of the harder core testing or background checks.

When I interviewed (~1999, pre 9/11) it was pretty relaxed. None of the cloak and dagger, don't admit your are interviewing with the NSA stuff.... I pretty much called and explained I needed a flight for an NSA interview, a hotel for the interview, etc. No one ever told me not to talk about it, or keep it secret.

I did, however, sign a non-disclosure agreement that said I wouldn't talk about what I saw inside their facility (and thus I'm not), but that makes perfect sense.

Hmmm...

[DGolden]

Do you trust the pdf? Why is it a pdf? Is Adobe in league with the NSA? could the acroread you installed to replace the KGhostgview default KDE PDF reader because "the rendering is better" be backdooring your linux box right now, after you were insufficiently paranoid by clicking on the pdf link? Oh you fool. You fool. You're not even wearing your tinfoil hat to stop Scalar/Longitudinal EM wave interference with your brain!

Friend of mine intereviewed with the CIA

[strictnein]

They had contacted him, which was interesting, for I believe a "Field Op" position... but anyways, he didn't tell me much about it, but one of the questions they asked him, when hooked up to the lie detector was:

"Have you ever inserted your finger into your asshole for pleasure?"

The guy was straight faced and did not even show the slightest sign of thinking this question was odd or funny.

A couple other things he mentioned where much much interesting than that... but I don't know, after hearing it I haven't ever mentioned it to anyone (not even my wife)

The Questions on the test (from the article)

[mr100percent]

The Handwritten Questionnaire

The handwritten questionnaire asks for a lot of information already supplied on the security forms, such as:
Name, age, education, marital status, children (if any), etc.
The more interesting questions were (as best I can recall):
- Describe the relationship to your mother
- Describe the relationship to your father
- Describe your parent's relationship to each other

- Have you ever had psychological counseling? (when/how long, etc.)
- Have any relatives ever had psychological counseling?
- Have you ever attempted suicide?
- Have you ever had a substance abuse problem?
- Do you drink? If so, how many drinks per week? per day?
- When was the first time you drank alcohol?
- Have you ever had interpersonal issues at work? (e.g., work relationships)
- Have you ever had disciplinary issues at school/military?
- Have you ever been convicted of a misdemeanor/felony?
- Have you ever been questioned by the police/authorities? (N.B., this would appear to be the catch-all, in case
someone wasn't convicted)
- Do you have any relatives that were in trouble with police/authorities?
- Have you ever taken something that was not yours? (This may have been worded as something slightly different.
but this was the intent)
- Have you ever committed computer abuse? (N.B.: whether deliberate or not, I recall the term 'abuse' being left
unspecified, ostensibly leaving the door open for all sorts of self-reporting ranging from checking personal email at
work, to having used Napster/Morpheus etc., to writing viruses, hacking websites and stealing credit cards
numbers.)
- Have you ever been the victim of a violent crime?
- Have you ever clucked like a chicken? If so, did you scratch backward or frontward?
- Describe your relationships to chickens.

The last page had about 20 sentences for the applicant to complete. Some that I remember were...
- Men should ____
- Women should ____
- I get angry when/because ____
- Chickens should ___

Given the theme, I would hazard a guess that the other sentences were ones that touched on potentially strong
emotional reactions like "I most regret," "If I only could", "I won't" and things like that.

The Computerized Test

As close as I can remember, these were some of the actual questions on the test. (true/false)
- I would like the job of a forest ranger
- I hear voices in my head
- I read the crime reports in the newspaper
- I have a mortal fear of earthquakes
- I have neck/hand pain
- I usually know what's going on (with my circle of friends)
- People are out to get me
- I would like the job of a librarian/florist (I can't remember which one it was, and it might have been both)
- I often feel that I can't get out of bed
- If someone has their possessions stolen from their unlocked car they had it coming.
- I like/enjoy children
"Animal-relationship"-type questions (e.g., "I enjoy animals", "I don't enjoy animals", "I like hurting animals", "It
bothers me when I hear about animals getting hurt" etc.)
- I am totally insane and like to stand on tables and cluck like a chicken

A few previous questions might not have actually been on the exam or the handwritten portion, but you get the
point. The questions went on and on.

Re:Are you sure this is a good idea?

[TheMidget]

I think we all remember the last time the Secret Service had to delete content from Slashdot.

Wow groovy! And I assumed only the Church of Scientology could do that!

Sth new to learn every day!

a side story...

[knitting fool]

A friend of mine from India was recently trying to decide between two jobs, one with the US Government and one in the private sector. He was leaning toward the government job, because he enjoyed the work more, until he talked to a collegue who had just joined the NSA. She told us how the agency required her to report all of her international friends, and keep tabs on their meetings. She had to get special permission to travel abroad. He decided, on the spot, to take the job at the private company.

Re:Are you sure this is a good idea?

[EinarH]

There is no such thing as "this web site" as "any web site" in this case.
"This web site" is The Federation of American Scientists and they have released information on nuclear policy, WMD's and intelligence since the early fifties. They are in a somewhat uniqe position.

I'm pretty sure that would not release anything unless they thought they could get away with it without problems. And they have alwayse stretched the limit of what's acceptable.

actual story about a co-worker who went nsa

[Frymaster]

the guy who does the equivalent of my job in the american office left for a position with the nsa a couple of months ago. he went throught the whole rigamarole of interviews and such and got accepted.

here's the interesting (or frightening) part. two weeks before he left for his new job, i had to send a bunch o sensitive data to some management type. so i called up our spook-to-be and said "point me to yr public key so i can send you this data pgp'd and yout can pass it on." his response?

"i don't have a public key. that cryptography stuff is a waste of time."

good luck national security association in all your future endeavors!

Most relevant question

[aynrandfan]

NSA: "Sir, have you at any time read or posted to Slashdot."

Interviewee: "Well, yes, I have."

NSA: "Arrest this man."

What it takes to join the NSA

[mitchell_pgh]

The article said: "After the process was over, I was talking to one of my references - a veteran Silicon Valley software executive, and former manager of mine. My reference commented on what transpired "That's disappointing. If they can't hire you, I have no idea who they can hire. That process seems to be designed to retain only the most bland." This is VERY TRUE A quasi-good friend of mine is in the NSA. He doesn't drink (maybe 8 beers in his life) has never been drunk, no drugs, lived with parents for 3 years after college, parents do well financially (not rich, not poor), father was a state trooper (parents never divorced), only one sister (small, tight knit family), had never left the United States (except to Canada... once), commuted to college (lived at home), received good grades 3.8+, graduated in the top 3% of his high school class, religious, comes from a small town, well rounded (played sports, basketball coach for teens... I'm also sure he had an amazing credit history and glowing reviews from previous employers. Why would the NSA want to hire qualified people that may be a security risk when they can simply hire people 2-3 years out of college from the middle of nowhere and train them the way that they want them to be trained. What's more risky, someone that is 100% loyal and quasi-qualified or someone that is 100% qualified, but potentially a security risk. They also may have been stringing this guy along to see if he was an agent for another country. (PS, I sure hope they wouldn't hire someone that has the potential to post a 13 page auto-biography and post it on the net!)

The question that lost the job:

[mackman]

Would you ever post sensitive documents on the internet?

Re:Meanwhile

[haystor]

There are relatively few things that disqualify you compared to what they ask you. The purpose of most of the questions and polygraph is that they get full disclosure of what you have done. They need to know all the skeletons in your closet, so they can't be used as blackmail against you.

Espionage often starts very simple. One instance I was told about was about a civilian consultant who asked a military person to buy them cigarettes at the Post Exchange (to avoid taxes). They worked together and the soldier didn't see anything wrong with helping the guy out. More purchases were made with the soldier accepting cash kickbacks on the savings.

This was used as leverage to get him to give them some information. The soldier thought the info was harmless and that this would get him out of it but really he was just more involved. From there it can just get worse and worse and he has more to hide.

The NSA doesn't really care that you tried pot 6 years ago as long as you're not trying to hide that fact. Someone that wants that fact hidden is a prime candidate for getting started down that slippery slope. It would probably start with something harmless, "Tell me what time so-and-so gets to work or I'll tell your entire church you smoked dope." If you're a neurotic person that needs to hide your past actions and pretend you were always the law-abiding, church goer that you are now then that may be perceived as a real threat that you'd go for.

Will Hunting's take

[Blackheart2]

From the original Good Will Hunting script:

WILL: Say I'm working at N.S.A. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. So I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself, 'cause I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and fifteen hundred people I never had a problem with get killed.

(rapid fire)

Now the politicians are sayin' "send in the Marines to secure the area" 'cause they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, gettin' shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number got called, 'cause they were pullin' a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie takin' shrapnel in the ass. And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, 'cause he'll work for fifteen cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile my buddy from Southie realizes the only reason he was over there was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish to scare up oil prices so they could turn a quick buck. A cute, little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at two-fifty a gallon. And naturally they're takin' their sweet time bringin' the oil back and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink seven and sevens and play slalom with the icebergs and it ain't too long 'til he hits one, spills the oil, and kills all the sea-life in the North Atlantic. So my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive so he's got to walk to the job interviews which sucks 'cause the shrapnel in his ass is givin' him chronic hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starvin' 'cause every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue-plate special they're servin' is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State.

(A beat.)

WILL (cont'd): So what'd I think? I'm holdin' out for somethin' better. I figure I'll eliminate the middle man. Why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? Christ, I could be elected President.

I have to agree

[Anonymous Coward]

with what this person has said. I too went for an interview with one of our intelligence agencies and the process he describes is spot on.

I went through the 10+ page background information packet and even had to ask my dad for his naturalized citizen number! I couldn't explain why other than to say, "I need it for a form I'm filling out."

I drove down to the interview location and was told in my pre-interview packet to avoid urinating in the morning before I came down as there would be a urinalysis test. Let me tell you, it's darn near impossible not to take a piss in the morning even if you don't have anything to drink later than 8 pm the previous night.

I did stop on the way down because I knew I wouldn't make it but drank a load of water to hopefully help compensate. (not like I had any worry about what they might find mind you).

The tests on the first day were urinalysis, blood test, sight test, hearing test and after lunch the big one, polygraph. We got to watch a short video about how a polygraph works and what to expect and then one-by-one we were taken to a room for our exam.

The first of my two polygraphs was given by a woma who was polite but professional. We went over the questions she was going to ask so there was no confusion as to whether I understood them or not. In some cases where clarification was needed I wrote down why I was going to say what I eventually said. In my case a relative was working for the federal government and I did have a relative who was not a native-born or naturalized citizen.

While most people are anxious when taking a polygraph I can tell you I was completely bored and almost fell asleep a few times during the questioning. I had to fight to stay awake and resorted to looking at different spots on the wall in front of me.

The two funniest parts of the whole situation were these: initially when she asked me baselining questions she told me I had given excellent responses. Exactly what she needed. Then, after the round of questions was over she walked in front of me and told me, "You're lying. These are the worst readings I've ever seen from anyone."

I had to really fight not to smirk, smile or laugh and finally ended up saying I don't know what she's reading but I answered everything truthfully. She said she'd let me alone for a while to "think over what I had said" and walked out of the room. What did I do? I closed my eyes and rested myself.

When she came back in the second funny thing happened. As she standing there with a cup of coffee in her hand she proceeds to tell me I'm lying again, all the while she's yawning her head off. Again I had to force back a smile and repeated that I was truthful in my answers.

She gave a second round of questions (I was able to stay awake more easily) and was once again told I was giving bad readings. Thus endeth my first day.

The second day was composed of my second polygraph, a booklet of questions (Do you care what happens to yourself?) and finally the meeting with the psych doc.

My second polygraph was with a man who was slightly more pleasant to deal with who, when asking me how things went the previous day, was told, "Apparently I gave the worse readings the previous examiner had ever seen".

We went through the same process of reading over the questions beforehand and then answering. At one point late in the process he asked, "What are you doing?"

I was puzzled and asked what he meant and once again was told I was giving bad readings. I certainly wasn't nervous though I was very relaxed. He came over and adjusted the blood pressure sleeve on my arm (I have small upper arms) and back we went with the questioning.

The only real difference between the second exam and the first was that in the second exam I could see the two-way mirror to my right at about the 1 o'clock position (so obviously was being watched) whereas on the first day it was behind me.

At the end of the second exam the examiner st

Re:I have to agree

[Copperhead]

I know HOW they conduct their evaluation process. I simply wanted to know why I was refused.

FYI, if you're denied a security clearance, you have the right to appeal. The Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals takes care of this.

According to about.com, "If you are denied a security clearance, or an assignment to a sensitive position or a position of trust, or your current clearance or access is revoked, you have the right to appeal the adjudicative decision. Under such circumstances you will be provided a statement on the reason(s) why you are ineligible for the clearance and the procedures for filing an appeal. If you believe the information gathered about you during the investigation is misleading or inaccurate, you will be given the opportunity to correct or clarify the situation."

Re:Important warning to the /. crowd...

[the_mad_poster]

How right you are.

I'm at work on a 'doze box where we're not allowed to install "freeware" or "shareware" (a psuedonym for "anything GPL or BSD licensed" to our idiotic paralegal group). I got into a fight about it and pointed out, rightly so, that according to the legal group's lousy definition of "freeware", acrobat reader is "freeware" and therefore a liability.

Now, nobody at work has Acrobat reader. Oops.

Of course, you may be wondering why I'm reading Slashdot at work. To that, I can only respond: shut up.

(Seriously though: I'm killing time while waiting for a Perl process to quit hogging all the resources.)

/. and PDF files??

[mhesseltine]

What is the deal with people on slashdot not wanting to read PDF files? Why do we need warnings that a link is to a PDF?

It's certainly not about standards compliance (Slashdot generating incompliant HTML 3.2 code anyone?) And, it's not about supporting patent encumbered file formats (GIF instead of PNG, multiple articles on MP3 players)

So tell me, honestly. Why do people have such a hard time with PDFs?

Re:/. and PDF files??

[ipxodi]

Because the average Slashdotter will happily boycott Adobe PDF files while listening to the latest CD and planning to go see LOTR or Matrix 3 this weekend.

Re:/. and PDF files??

[mhesseltine]

Because the average Slashdotter will happily boycott Adobe PDF files while listening to the latest CD and planning to go see LOTR or Matrix 3 this weekend.

So, let me make sure I have this correct:

• Microsoft = bad
• Linux = good
• Adobe = bad
• MPAA = good (LOTR, Revolutions)
• RIAA = good (Kill Bill Vol. 1 OST)
• BSD = dead (just kidding)

Re:/. and PDF files??

[droleary]

So tell me, honestly. Why do people have such a hard time with PDFs?

For me, it's not just PDF but anything that isn't HTML. I don't want my flow of browsing interrupted without any immediate visual indication. I don't care if it's some format there's a browser plug-in for, either. When I click a regular link, my expectation is to go to a regular page, not download a movie or Word document or whatever. It's the principle of least surprise being violated that pisses people off.

Obligatory NSA Recruiting Joke

[Tackhead]

ROFLMAO. I'll see your CIA and raise you an NSA:

"NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and ask for one."

Reminds me of a story

[sirgoran]

My father once told me about a crew member he flew with in the U.S Air Force.
Note: My father was a Navigator on some of the "Looking Glass" flights during Vietnam.

Seems the man was up for promotion and needed to go through a background security check to get his grade increase. After filling out the stack of forms and giving the addresses of every relative, he sat back and waited for final approval and clearence.

After three months of no word, and finding that his C.O. was told to ground him until further notice, he felt he needed to call around to his relatives to find out what the problems were and to find out what, if anything was said.

Being from a very small town in the back hills country of the Ozarks, it took a little while to locate the troubles and find out what went wrong. The man finally got in touch with his own father and asked if Air Force Security had sent someone out to interview them. His father replied, "Yep. Them revenuers been sniffin 'round here askin all sorts of questions 'bout you. But don't worry none. We didn't tell them nothin!"

It took about an hour to straighten out his father and after asking his C.O. to re-submit the paperwork, he got his promotion in about a month.

-Goran

Been there, done that

[freeweed]

I interviewed for a co-op position up here in Canada with the feds that required a pretty high security clearance level. Think Canada's NSA.

15 page background info to fill out, security interview, polygraph, the whole works. The interview was really, really bizarre. They basically want to know every bad/weird thing you've ever done, so you're pretty much baring your soul to these people.

What amused me the most, though, was when he asked if I had ever looked at pornography (who hasn't). And if I still do (who doesn't).

Well! You'd think I just admitted to killing Kennedy. What followed was probably 10 minutes solid of questions relating to it: What kind do you like (and he broke down into specific categories, some of which *I've* never even heard of, and I click on random Slashdot links all the time :), how often do you look, how much money do you spend on it, what do you do when looking at it (duh :), do you watch with other people, do your friends/s.o. know of your fetishes, etc, etc, etc.

I walked out of that room after 3 hours feeling like I had just run a marathon. To be honest, the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth, and I ended up taking another job in the private sector. But it bugs me - the feds basically have every little thing about me on file. Would suck if our government decided to be less than ethical, now wouldn't it?

Looking back on it, it was an interesting experience, and while I have nothing to hide (the "worst" thing I've ever done is summed up in my nick) it's still unsettling. I now understand a lot better why privacy as a value in and of itself is a GOOD thing.

I kinda regret going through the process now, but *shrug*.

Idea

[metamatic]

Point out to them that Internet Explorer is available for free download, then sit back and watch the fun.