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Sun Negotiating With Wal-Mart Over Java Desktop

Posted by simoniker on from the sun-mart-wal-java dept.

An anonymous reader writes "According to an EWeek article, Sun is challenging Microsoft on a new front: the consumer market. Believing its Java Desktop System is "a more effective home and retail solution," the company is negotiating with major retailers Wal-Mart and Office Depot to include the Java desktop on consumer PCs and laptops."

28 of 468 comments (clear)

  1. A discussion of the "Java Desktop"... by tcopeland · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...is in John Mitchell's blog.

    As he says, 'Did you notice how little actual Java there is in the "Java Desktop System"?'

    --
    The Army reading list
    1. Re:A discussion of the "Java Desktop"... by Xentax · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That maybe a true statement, but it's also an ultimately irrelevant one.

      The "clean" or "best" or "pure" solution is rarely the one that's the most popular, or most used, etc. Take your same language example -- more software is written in C, C++, and Java than in Lisp or OCAML, at least outside of academia.

      I dunno that hardware as the profit stream (with the software bundled) is the way to go, in the long term -- it has certainly worked for Sun in the past, though. Ask yourself who has the better profit margin -- Microsoft, the OS and (some of the) applications provider, or Dell, Gateway, HP, etc. who bundle MS software with their hardware?

      Xentax

      --
      You shouldn't verb words.
    2. Re:A discussion of the "Java Desktop"... by Usagi_yo · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You are missing the point if you think this is pathetic.

      Sun is making an entry into the low end PC OS market with an OS alternative to M$.

      Java Desktop capitalizes on the goodwill Sun has built up in the Java name. Why shouldn't they or why can't they capitalize on it? They invest time money and effort in developing it and making standards and keeping other people from polluting it.

      Yes, right now for the entry level and firt year marketting, it is a Java Brand mainly rather then Java Platform. But if successfull and gains entry, doubtless Sun and many developers will pour 100's of millions of $$$$ into developing it into something that takes M$ on head to head.

      Everybody forgets Sun bought Staroffice for millions and then gave it away to the community. Now they are all agag that after improving staroffice, integrating it into linux distro called java desktop and want to sell it for $75.

  2. How long till Sun realises... by ikekrull · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That they are going to make more money off Linux than they ever possibly could off Solaris, do a complete about face, and proclaim 'Linux is the best choice for the server as well as the desktop, and Solaris is `legacy` technology.'

    I give it a till June next year.

    --
    I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
  3. At least... by sirReal.83. · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They're not going to use Lindows. SJD seems to actually emphasize quality over gimmick.

    not that "Java Desktop" is gimmick-free... just call it GNOME, damnit!

  4. A good idea in principle, but in practice? by carl67lp · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The idea of Wal Mart selling PCs with an OS to compete with Windows appeals to me. But it can, conceivably, open up a whole host of other problems.

    Case in point: My retired aunt and uncle bought a computer based primarily on price. Presuming that the Java-OS computers are cheap, then many people who have never bought a computer will be like my aunt and uncle and buy this computer as their first PC.

    What happens when they visit their local techie goods retailer and look for card games, or photo editors, or even hardware like printers, scanners, or digital cameras? Suddenly, things don't work like they're supposed to, and auntie and uncle get upset and call in their nephew to fix things.

    The point is this: The hardware is irrelevant. For most people, hardware is nothing more than nails, tacks, and screws. Software is what matters. Unless Wal Mart has Java-OS-specific software right next to the PCs, and can sufficiently educate consumers that Eudora won't install on their computer, then we'll have problems.

    (Mind, this diatribe is based on my admittedly limited knowledge of the Java OS. But all thoughts apply regardless.)

    1. Re:A good idea in principle, but in practice? by BagOBones · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Mod this one up.

      Consumers are not conserned with the OS or the Hardware.. They just want to do stuff with their PC.

      I hope Walmart is prepared for the MASS software or system returns when people contiue to puchase Windows software and think it will run on this system.

      --
      EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
    2. Re:A good idea in principle, but in practice? by TheLittleJetson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is the classic windows/other catch-22.

      Most software is for windows, because most people run windows, which is why most software is for windows.

      Something's gotta give for this cycle to break.... And you can't expect software vendors to package and ship software for OS's that have no userbase in hopes that one day a market will magically appear.

      Once you get enough frustrated aunties and uncles, the free market will correct, and you'll start to see more software. It won't happen overnight, and it won't be a smooth transition -- but it can happen. :-)

      Plus, if Sun puts in some effort, they could provide what the customer needs before they even get in the car to go to the software store! My mother bought a Mac, and the only software she bought was office -- everything else she uses came on the computer when she got it. This strategy could also help bridge the gap. -m

    3. Re:A good idea in principle, but in practice? by bogie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But do you think that Joe REALLY Average who can't figure out how to install any sharware, retail, or old Windows apps cares about any of that?

      The return rate for PC's loaded with Linux and sold at places like Walmart must be astronomical. There is no way the salepeople at Walmart's PC department even understand how to turn a PC on let alone what Linux is and what it means if a customer decides to buy a Linux PC.

      I like and use linux, but we are many many years away from it having the proper amount of support from Hardware makers and from ISV's like Abobe, Intuit, and Corel etc. Think there are going to be lots of retail consumer Linux apps showing up on the shelves of Compusa? That's the same thing I used to think 3 years ago.

      "Suddenly, things don't work like they're supposed to, and auntie and uncle get upset and call in their nephew to fix things.

      This isn't all that different from the way things are now with Windows though, is it? "

      I don't think I've ever posted something like this on Slashdot, but when it comes to Windows most things do "just work". So your perception about Windows is a bit warped. That's what happens when vendors fall all over themselves to support your OS.

      --
      If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
    4. Re:A good idea in principle, but in practice? by McGarnacle · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Think there are going to be lots of retail consumer Linux apps showing up on the shelves of Compusa?

      This is precisely my point. There certainly *won't* be if someone doesn't make an effort to distributed OEM'd PCs and laptops (which are even more of a problem in my view). Like I said, it's a chicken/egg problem, or the other poster who said it's a catch 22. Adobe *might* make a version of Photoshop for Linux, the chances of that happening increase if people start buying these Java desktops, or the Lindows/Mandrake PCs, or whatever Novell/Ximian may or may not come out with. So yeah, for more widespread acceptance, we need to have those commercial apps that people are used to in Windows, and also to have supported OEM PCs that can be bought at Compusa/Walmart/Futureshop/Wherever.

      If Sun is trying to pull off the latter, then good for them I say. 1/2 is better than 0/2. Sure, Walmart salespeople don't knoq squat about Linux, but how much do they know about Windows? Probably a bit more, but not much. Walmart sells those Micron PCs on the web anyways, there is no salesperson interaction. I would hope that Walmart would train their people to do some elementary tasks with a Linux desktop if they were to sell them in the store (haha, it is to laugh).

      ...but when it comes to Windows most things do "just work". So your perception about Windows is a bit warped.

      My perception of Windows comes from helping friends and family. Which is why the grandparent post really struck a note. Sure, things do "just work", but often enough, they "just work" because someone had to call me over to get it to "just work" for them.

      --

      I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to tell such LIES!

  5. Hooray! by ryanr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Another hardware platform to hack after it fails miserably in the market and I can buy them for $40.

  6. Wal-Mart & PCs by chill · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wal-Mart sells PCs with Lindows on them from their website. They're supposed to be a decent seller, so they probably aren't adverse to the idea.

    I remember dealing with Home Shopping Network a couple of years ago. Their biggest seller was computers, but it was also their biggest return. People just couldn't figure them out properly.

    For most people, PCs are just too complicated. They try to please all of the people all of the time, and fail miserably.

    Sun might be on to something. Time to check up on their stock.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  7. Exactly why do they think it'll work by GillBates0 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I'm at a loss to figure out why exactly it'll work.

    If they expect to steal users over from Microsoft Windows, they're going to have to work REALLY hard at improving the UI that was /. reviewed last week (the crappy /. search won't return the right link).

    If, however, they're targetting current advanced users of Linux/etc, what makes them think these users will pay buy their desktop instead of putting one together themselves and downloading linux.

    I would think most average users would rather go in for a dual boot system rather than linux/unix alone, because of the amount of family/educational software/games etc available for Windows.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  8. That's what I find odd by mcc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    OK, so they're naming something not-very-java-ish "Java Desktop" to capitalize on the Java name.

    But look at the COMMENTS in this thread, even so far! Look at all the posts going "eww, JAVA? for a DESKTOP?". Java is NOT a name with positive connotations. Everyone "knows" that Java is slow, clunky, and jittery. Of course, the only time they've ever directly used a Java app was AWT applets running on Netscape 4 ages and ages ago, but that's still the perception I think most people have.

    Java, from an end-user perspective, was blitzed out before it or the VMs were even remotely ready, was oversold in the embedded-in-web-browsers area (where it ran like crap) and undersold as a facilitator of cross-platform application development (where it ran almost acceptably), was pushed in everyone's face in the form of poorly designed pre-Swing applets, and then quietly retreated completely from the end-user space. This is the last memory most people have of Java (even if it's the woman in wal-mart going "oh, Java? I think I remember that from that email forward from my grandson? that's the thing that makes animations that blink a lot, isn't it?") and outside of the community of programmers and people who know what a "servlet" is, it probably currently has negative mindshare.

    Is Sun actually thinking "Hmm, 'Java Desktop System', that's a name people can trust"?

    Or is the idea that they now trying to rehabilitate Java's brandname by attatching it to a product that (one can only hope) is actually worthwhile and usable?

    --
    Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
  9. Re:Unflattering article with little research. by Otter · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Clearly, the guy is confusing the so called "Java desktop" with Java JVM.

    But that's precisely the point! Sun is trying to associate their new Linux/GNOME distribution with the Java brand -- and the downside of that is people (including this clueless writer) are envisioning some circa-1997 Marc Andreesen/Kim Polese browser-based monstrosity.

    --
    What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
  10. Less is more... by Zo0ok · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If it means I can go out and buy a cheap computer that can handle email, WWW, word processing and printing, then I think it is good. For lots of people that would be a very good deal. If I bought such a computer - for how long time would it serve my fathers needs without maintenance?

    10 years?

    This f***ing business needs to grow up and deliver mature technology.

    I have no idea if Suns Java Desktop is the right way to go - but if simplicity and end-user-needs are in mind I think it is a step in the right direction.

    Also, IF it would be successful we would see yet another OS (as in commercial product) running on ordinary PC hardware that does not feature all the DRM-shit that MS says they'll put in Longhorn. For hacking c-code any stable and open system will do.

  11. Some Links and Questions by Schlemphfer · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Well, even though it's called Java Desktop System, it really seems more like a (hopefully) highly polished front end of a pre-installed Linux distribution. Here's a FAQ from Sun. And here's a link to the project homepage.

    This proposed Walmart deal strikes me as exactly what Red Hat would be trying to do, if they were remaining in the market as a consumer distribution. The article doesn't even attempt to define the Java Desktop System (hence the above links), so there's really nothing in the way of comments as to how good the thing is.

    Also, does the "Java" in the name of this product really mean that the desktop is in fact written in Java? I can't imagine that's the case, or why it would be desirable. But one analyst quoted in the article seems to take it as a given that this thing is written in Java:

    I personally keep Java off my computer because it crashes the system...If Sun had the interests of the customer in mind, then the Sun desktop would be written in C and donated to Linux. Sun is no better than Microsoft.

    From what I can see, if this deal comes to pass, Walmart may soon be selling Linux based systems with a highly polished front end, equipped with a suite of office/internet software that does everything an entry-level buyer could want. Seems to me that this would be a big step up from people buying XP boxes. It would increase the market share of Linux, and result in way more Linux software being developed.

    So I have two questions. If anyone here has used the Java Desktop System, what do you think? And does anyone see any real downside to Linux if this deal is made?

    --
    I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
  12. Yeah.. especially by mindstrm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    since they are hardly even business friendly.

    The problem, I find, with Sun salespersons, is that they are generally of the opinion that Sun is the supreme god of everything, and that everything not sun is garbage.

    I have called sun several times in the past, with a clear, precise list of what I need to buy from them. I explain to them what I want, that I am familiar with all of their services and equipment, and that I really only need what I am asking for. They still manage to waste DAYS worth of time trying to convince me to replace other stuff with sun gear... despite the fact that the sun gear can't come close to doing what I want. Example: Fileserver

    I was about to purcahse a 50 gig NetApp NAS box... the sun guy tried to sell me on some sun fileserver.

    The pros/cons

    NetApp - Hardware raid on FC drives. Filesystem that takes snapshots. Netapp gave me performance stats for NFS ops/sec, etc.

    Sun: Software raid on scsi drives. Smaller array. No snapshots. Could not give me any specs on throughput, etc.

    Now.. come on. I can appreciate trying to push your company's products.. that's their job.. but you lose a lot of credibility when you try to convince me to use GARBAGE in place of what I want, just because it's not yours.

    Example #2: I was about to purchase about $300,000 in sun gear for an E-commerce type setup... I called several vendors. I had my hardware list DECIDED, based on current offerings. Took the resellers almost 3 weeks to get back to me. They gave me some okay quotes... each, ,of course, asked me again for all hte detials i had alreayd painstakingly sent them. Then.. I get a call from a guy actually at SUN who was supposedly in charge of ".com stuff". He asked if I had talked to anyone else. I said no. He said he knew I had, because all the resellers report to him. Then he a) quashed a deal with one reseller I was going to buy from, telling them the pricing they were giving me would end up getting them in shit with sun.
    b) Offerred to set up my whole system for me and guarantee it, on the condition that I let them purchase ALL SUN hardware, including swtiches, etc, and could not mess with it.
    c) Wanted me to say OKAY to this without showing me a quote. His point was that if he showed me the quote, I could just use that as my system specs and build it myself.

    Now.. tha'ts kind of messed up, but he sort of has a point. So I tell him "Look, there is no way in hell I'm committing to anything without full disclosure from you, sorry, what are you thinking". He sends me his specs.

    They are MY specs, minus a few items, but it COSTS more.

    So what the hell, he's accusing me of potentially stealing his plans when he already SAW mine, and they were just like his?

    I started as a perfect customer. We were ready to wire the money immediately if they had just simply GIVEN us a quote for what we asked for. Instead, they fucked around for a month, and ended up losing the sale totally.

    I diligently mailed him, his superious, and all the resellers to point out how this guy had totally fucked up for sun.

    I also went to a SUN meeting one time.. they wanted to demonstrate the SunRAY stuff (which is cool) and also some windows file sharing stuff. They pointed out how it was way better than samba because it was based on real NT code that they had a license to. Now.. this was all fine and great. Except.. it also contained the NT bugs (for compatability). Okay.. I can understand that. I start asking about how I can integrate this with unix stuff.. are the ACLs in text files? Like, why would I actually want this over an NT server? His answer? Nope, you can't really do anything like that.. it's JUST like using windows, isnt' that great? Except it's on a SUN, so it won't crash. You mean the application won't crash? Oh yes, it will.. he means the computer won't crash.

    Sun has made some cool stuff in the past.. and I used to really respect them.. but after trying to deal with them on multiple occassions, I feel they really need to get their heads out of their asses and start dealing with reality.

  13. Good Idea by gilxa1226 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would say this is an extremely smart move for Sun. My dad (who is a CPA) read in one of his Magazines that Walmart contributes either 5% or 10%, can't remember, of the US's GNP. That doesn't sound like a lot, but for one company to have that much share is huge.

  14. quote comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    "I personally keep Java off my computer because it crashes the system," he said. "If Sun had the interests of the customer in mind, then the Sun desktop would be written in C and donated to Linux. Sun is no better than Microsoft."

    I would have a hard time giving credence to a anyone who said something like the above. Especially the "..it crashes the system." part. That is a little ridiculous.

  15. Re:Has this guy used the "Java" desktop? by JohnnyCannuk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yeah, that caught my eye too. Here's the text of a letter I just sent eWeek, to express my disgust at their quality of journalism:

    "I am writing you to point out some inaccuracies in your article, posted on your site today:

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1406463,00. as p

    More specifically, these paragraphs:

    "At the same time, some users are painting Sun with the same proprietary brush they say applies to Microsoft and its products. An IT manager, who asked not to be named, said he could not understand why a user would trade one proprietary desktop for another.

    "I personally keep Java off my computer because it crashes the system," he said. "If Sun had the interests of the customer in mind, then the Sun desktop would be written in C and donated to Linux. Sun is no better than Microsoft."

    This is clearly FUD by this so-called IT manager, who does not want to be identified, likely because he works for Microsoft.

    Firstly, equating this as a "proprietary solution" and "no better than Microsoft" is absolutely false. The Sun Java Desktop is essentially Suse Linux with the latest version of GNOME desktop and Evolution and the latest J2SE environment included. All free, both as in beer and as in speech. All open source. Most certainly NOT a proprietary solution. Since I have the know-how, I could put this exact desktop system together for nothing, and it would work exactly like Sun's offering. The Sun Java Desktop system in Wal-Mart is aimed at people like my mom. But that doesn't make it proprietary. I can still add all of the various opensource libraries and programs to it as if it were just a stock Suse or RedHat or Debian install.

    This so-called IT manager keeps Java off his desktop because it crashes the system. This is a blatant lie. As Java runs in it's own sandbox, if a Java program crashes, it cannot possibly take down a system. I have only seen this happen when using the Java Native Interface, which is RARELY used by most Java desktop applications. But saying that also seems to indicate that the desktop it self is unstable and written in Java. Guess what? Calling it the 'Java Desktop System' is a marketing ploy by Sun for this because it goes along with it's Java Enterprise System (which does use quite a bit of Java and certainly doesn't "crash the system"). The Java Desktop Sustem is written 99% in C with an embedded JVM so you can run various Java - based desktop programs as if they were native. This is exactly what Apple does on the Mac OSX. And Sun already donates many of their projects and code to open source projects (like Open Office, the free version of Star Office). So I guess then Sun does have the interests of it's customers in mind!

    These errors are GLARING for developer and managers that actually work with Java and Linux/Unix on a daily basis. Actually, it's GLARING for anybody that works in IT - most of the .Net developers I work with know this. So glaring that I can only think of 2 reasons this made into this article: you were duped or you are actively involved in a campaign to discredit the system.

    The so-called IT manager, is not in fact a manager. He's one of your hacks - you needed a bit of controversy so you got someone to say this, and used the anonymity to cover it up. Or worse, he's a shill for Microsoft, trying to discredit what is clearly a technological and marketing threat to Microsoft's supremacy on the desktop. The whole section essentially says "Why bother, it's unstable, it's not free. I 'm a professional at this and I wouldn't do it so you shouldn't too." and it's aimed at people who wouldn't know better - people who shop at Wal-Mart. So, did you check this guy's allegations with other "IT Managers"? Did you check his background and credentials? Is that why he would prefer not to be named - because he really doesn't know what he's talking about. I suspect he's the "IT manager" (read office administrator) at your office, so he knows about Windows but nothing else.

    --
    Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
  16. Java (not the desktop) by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would like to see GNU/Linux to become a more powerful platform and by a more powerful platform I mean a platform that provides the user with a pleasant experience. Now, to provide a pleasant experience a platform must give the user a choice - a choice of applications that exist for the platform is a step in the right direction. However, GNU/Linux is not such a platform yet. If it were, it would have been embraced by the masses already and it is not. There are a few things that GNU/Linux system is lacking and one of the more important lacking components is a convenient tool that allows a novice create his/her own software for the platform, software that easily manipulates data imported from multiple sources and allows to create graphical interfaces to that data. In the Microsoft this functionality is provided by such a ubiquitous tool as Visual Basic. In the Free Software world there are many tools that are extremely powerful but none of them have the same kind of momentum that Visual Basic delivers on Microsoft platform.

    To answer the question- "What can be the VB for Free Software?" we need to look at the kind of problems that will have to be solved by this tool. The problems solved by VB are of many kinds, but for the general public VB provides the bridge that closes the gap between a user and a multitude of small problems that the user wants to solve. Of-course it is possible to just create a VB IDE for FS platforms but I believe there is a more interesting solution to this problem and it is Java. Just like VB, Java runs in a virtual machine, so the user will never really have direct access to any hardware resources, but an abstract layer of JVM can provide a nice buffer between the user and the hardware and at the same time Java will always behave in the same way on multiple other platforms, including Windows. Java has thousands of convenience libraries, there is enough Free Software written for Java that can be integrated into an IDE. However there is a big problem with the language itself - it is not Free.

    Sun allows anyone to use Java for free but nobody can modify the language itself except for Sun. In order for Java to become for Free Software and Gnu/Linux what VB became for Microsoft, Java has to be Freed and put out under the GPL. There is also probably a good business sense in it for the Sun Microsystems as well - their language suddenly becomes the language of choice for millions and thousands will work on improving the language, the virtual machine, the compiler etc. In this case Sun will stay in a position that Linus finds himself in - they become the gate-keepers for the vanilla Java tree, but Java will branch and will become much more spread than it is right now. Sun can capitalize on that by providing more Java based solutions and services.

    Now it is likely that Sun management will not agree to the change of their Java's status, however, if there was an immediately profitable reason for them to do this, they just may turn around and start thinking about it. A reason that is profitable could be a large sum of cash available to them upon releasing Java under the GPL. Where could this money come from? These money could be collected by the FS and OS supporters, the developers and the users who would like to see more momentum in the GNU/Linux movement towards a successful (wide spread) desktop solution. I suppose no one will seriously object to have one more powerful tool in their Free Software tool-bag. Java can be this tool and it can be just the thing needed to tip the scales over towards quick appearance of a useful and a popular GNU/Linux desktop.

    --
    You can't handle the truth.
  17. Re:wtf.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I've never, ever seen Java "crash the system"

    What's more, an application can't be responsible if the system crashes. It's the job of the operating system to take care of applications, not the other way around. Those of you who are qualified computing professionals will have been exposed to this concept many times.

    If a system crashes, it's because the system is broken. Period.

    And I notice that the followups which offer their own anecdotal evidence of Java "crashing the system" seem to all be running it under Microsoft Windows. What a remarkable coincidence!

  18. Re:Whatever... by DrXym · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Both of these will pretty much kill the Sun initiative. I think we can be fairly confident that this will fail. Linux on the desktop (basically what this is) would do FAR better if targeted at business users rather than consumers.


    It would do far better if actually provided what consumers want. Stuff such as user friendliness, task centric help, easy managability, multimedia, click N run drivers, games, etc. As a power user, I wouldn't mind some of those things either. MS manages to target power users and home users and I don't see any technical reason that Linux couldn't either.


    Unfortunately Linux in its current incarnation is like a cake baked to resemble a dog turd. Consumers aren't going to bother with it even if you insist its actually made of delicious marzipan.

  19. Apple Share by WarriorX99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's too bad that Macs aren't any cheaper. It seems that they would flourish better with the market that these computers will be reaching while providing the users with a system that's more suited to their digital cameras, printers, etc. that they just want to work out of the box.

    --
    Life today. Uncertainty tomorrow.
  20. Re:Unflattering article with little research. by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "The only way I've ever even crashed a Java VM is by running out out memory"

    Java programs consistantly bluescreen my Windows 2000 computer at work. I didn't think it was possible to do that to Windows2K.

  21. JDS = Java Delivery. Java Webstart is the Future. by zipwow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think what they're trying to do here is set up a system with which the easiest way to get new applications is to get new Java applications through JWS.

    If you haven't used JWS, go and install the plugin and try it out. A friend of mine wrote a class diagram / UML tool called The Virtual Bar Napkin. If you have JWS installed, you can hit the link on his webpage and the application is running in a few seconds.

    He didn't have to write an installer, or deal with a page saying "for this version, click here, for that version, click there".

    And to clarify, It is not an applet. It's an application, running in its own window, etc. Furthermore, it is actually installed on your system, and you can access it later through the regular menu system (on windows) without having to be connected to the net. Upgrading to new versions is just as trivial.

    JWS is a great example of the promise of Java. Write your client application, distribute it seamlessly, update it in near real time, and avoid all the nonsense with servlets and sessions and HTML + javascript web interface nightmare.

    So long as this gets us closer to that, I'm interested.

    -Zipwow

    --
    I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
  22. Maybe this *is* targeted to business users... by Rob+Y. · · Score: 3, Interesting

    These things aren't being sold in Wal-Mart stores. They're only available online.

    Maybe the target market is businesses that want to run Sun JD (or other Linux distro) and aren't big enough to get Dell to sell them PC's without Windows.

    There are enough *real* Linux customers out there that are not being served by the majors. Could this be Wal-Mart's way of going after Dell in the small business market that they've owned for too long now?

    --
    Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...