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TiVo Goes After Sites Hosting Image Backups
TiVo User writes "TiVo has apparently decided to come down on sites that hosted 'image backups,' essentially tarballs of the OS for the machine, which just happens to be Linux. TiVo owners use the images to install on new, larger hard drives (increasing the recording capacity of the unit) or to recover a dead system. Why TiVo has a problem with this, but allows others to sell the same images for profit is beyond me." Read on for the rest of TiVo User's comments.
"The images are not used to create pirate TiVos (as a subscription service, TiVo justifiably controls access to their database tightly), so there wouldn't appear to be much harm in allowing them to be hosted. TiVo has always walked a fine line in allowing the user community to mod their units, perhaps they have finally stepped over that line, considering there are free alternatives that are less restrictive. To their credit, the legal mumbo jumbo in their cease letter is non-threatening compared to most other of this type, but it's interesting the letter draws no distinction between the portions of the software that are Linux, and therefore expressly distributable, and those that are proprietary to TiVo."
There are plenty of free choices now, and they are geting better every day, seems like a bad time for Tivo to start upsetting their biggest fans.
If they are allowing other sites to sell their images for a profit, presumably they are getting royalties, and would therefore want to encourage the growth of this market by stopping people doing it for free. Follow the money...
If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
What, you mean like this source code?
Anyhow, I don't see how distribution of images is related to the GPL. The GPL doesn't require that TiVo provide binary versions of its software. Furthermore, just because TiVos are Linux-based, who says all of the software on a TiVo box is GPL'd? Surely they have their own proprietary programs on there that don't use GPL'd code, and those programs would not allowed to be distributed in TiVo disk images.
How is this different to somebody hosting Windows ISOs? If there is software that is copyrighted by Tivo inside the images and they haven't given the people distributing them license to do so, then they are well within their rights to stop the distribution.
TiVo themselves have already posted their kernel modifications on the web site. They're Good Guys, usually. They have no obligation to let the rest of their code be tossed around the internet.
I suspect their concern is that someone will figure out how to hack their way into their servers or steal DirecTV service or eventually manage to run the whole image on "stock" hardware.
Much better for them to nip this copyright violation now than to try to stop it in a year or two when they'll annoy even more people. It may be harder for people to fix "hacked" TiVo's, but you take your own chances when you break that warranty seal...
DirecTivos don't do their software updates over the phone, they get them from the satellite, then dialup to verify that the machine is active, then run the patches. I can't be 100% sure, but the standalones and the DirecTivos are completely different, so there's no way to just magically make HMO (Home Media Options) work.
Not yet they don't.
DirecTivo's still get their software updates over the phone line. The capability exists to do software patching via the satellite, but to my knowledge (admittedly limited on this point), they have not used it yet.
And the "magic" way to make HMO work on Series 2 D-Tivo's is indeed to copy a Series 2 standalone image with activated HMO to the unit. This was discovered a few months ago. Tivo unified their code base with the series 2 systems a while back, and one side effect of this was that the code became unified enough to where the standalone image was in fact "close enough" to work more or less correctly on a D-Tivo. Doing this and letting it then dial in would be an exceedingly stupid thing to do, but no doubt some morons did it anyway.
This highlights a bit of a problem with Tivo's latest offerings, one that I bitched about on the Tivo Community forums back when I was still welcome there. They are charging, on a monthly basis, for what is essentially a one time software update. Every feature of the HMO (Home Media Option) stuff, with the exception of web access to your Tivo, is done by the unit itself and requires no external connection as such. The MP3 playing, show sharing, picture viewing, all of that doesn't need the unit to call home to be able to do any of it. So it was really only a matter of time before someone flipped their own switches on the box, I argued. The unification of the code base between D-Tivo's and Standalones let people figure out how to flip their own switches on the D-Tivo's as well. Take an HMO activated standalone, copy it to the D-Tivo, voila.
Tivo is headed down the drain, IMO. They made a very good product, and changed the landscape of TV viewing. But they've made some very poor decisions with regards to their business strategies and software designs, and now it's starting to bite them in the ass.
I'm starting to feel like it's only a matter of time before it's full on war between Tivo hackers and Tivo Inc., and Tivo Inc. doesn't stand a chance on this one. The majority of Tivo sales have classically been via word of mouth, and if they don't turn it around, they're going to alienate their best and most vocal sellers, ya know?
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Why do people insist on posting comments on things they know nothing about?
Tivo's KERNEL is GPL, and SOME of tivo's userland is GPL, and tivo has always released the code for their modifications to GPL software they used. But tivos also have proprietary software on them, that is not based on GPL code, and is not released under the GPL, and they have every right to control distribution of it. Just because the GPL binaries and the proprietary binaries are on the same hard drive doesn't give someone the right to image the drive and distribute the proprietary binaries.
I don't understand how people can bash someone for controlling distribution of their own work, and still support the GPL at the same time. The GPL is all about controlling distribution of your work.
Oh, come on. To use one of these images you have to:
a. Open up the Tivo - Torx Drivers required.
b. Play with the IDE cables, IDE jumpers and other crap.
c. Run Linux, or use a Linux Boot disk.
No one who does that even remotely thinks that calling CS is going to help.
I'm the best IRC client ever.
Boy, you sure can read between the lines.. Badly, I might add.
business model is based on extorting a monthly fee for a VCR
With the standalones, it's not all that unexpected.. The unit needs continuing guide data, Tivo provides that data. Value received for payment made. With the D-Tivo's you have a point, but the fee on the D-Tivo's is so low that it's not even worth thinking about it.
acting like a jackbooted thug and violating the GPL
Tivo isn't violating the GPL, in even the most restrictive sense you can possibly put the GPL. They're totally in the clear on this one.
you're saying that you're surprised
I'm surprised in that I'm not sure what this particular action gets them in terms of a gain. It's one thing if this was costing them subscriptions or sales, but it's not, as far as I can see. So I fail to understand why they took this course, because it gains them nothing of import.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
If skipping commercials was a problem, then advertisers would have been bitching since the dawn of the VCR. Tivo doesn't make it any easier to fast forward through a commercial.
All advertisers need to do is make their commercials interesting and relevant. I hardly ever skip the commercials during Adult Swim because they're so fun to watch.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
The "choices" are all shit. No, really. Compared to a Tivo, they are expensive *and* crap. Basically you need a PC to dedicate to the task, that alone is more expensive than a Tivo and then you need to fuck about with it for days to get it half as functional as a lobotomised Tivo.
The software in the Tivo images contains Tivo's code. Taking that code and distributing it without permission is very simply and plainly copyright infringement. You just shouldn't do it. By all means take a backup, but the code is not yours to give away.
Tivo do comply with the GPL, (http://www.tivo.com/linux/) so if you want the GPL'd code, go get it.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.