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AOL Lays Off 450 In California
bmarklein writes "AOL has laid off 450 in California. The former Netscape campus is going from 675 employees to 300. The San Francisco office, which they obtained when they acquired Spinner (now Radio@AOL), and which housed Nullsoft after their acquisition by AOL, is being closed along with an office in San Diego. 100 employees have been offered jobs in Virginia or New York. No word on how this affects products like WinAmp. Justin, are you out there?"
Somehow even if AOL was stupid enough to lay him off, I am sure the creator and lead for WinAmp would have NO problem finding employment. In fact, I bet a certain company in Redmond, WA wouldn't have any problem in picking him up.
AOL started out in the dial up industry which from what I can tell has gone right down the shitter for them, however they still managed to merger with Time-Warner before they figured out. Now what have they got? Certainly dial up won't get them anywhere, and the broadband service they offer is just a piece of seemingly annoying proprietary software. Where can they go from here ?
If the dollar is an "I owe you nothing", then the Euro is a "Who owes you nothing." - Doug Casey
So do I. I remember people talking about them being "the next Microsoft", and not in a flattering sense. I remember the incompatible tags they introduced. I remember the appalling mess of Netscape 4 and CSS.
And then there was the <blink> tag...
I can remember distinctly when I switched to IE, and at the time it was because IE was better, not because Microsoft forced me to. I can also remember switching back to Mozilla (and then Firebird), again because the browser was better.
I would argue that the glory days of Netscape stopped at Netscpe 3, took a break and restarted in the present time due to Mozilla. I'm not certain now what percentage of Mozilla developers are ex-Netscape, but I imagine it's still high enough to be called Netscape-in-another-form.
Cheers,
Ian
Oh well, it can be worse. You could get ranked and yanked, like I did. When that happens, they paper your file, rake you over the coals for a few months and fire you individually. It looks great. In my case, my supervisor made sure he nailed me on my birthday. Another great and integral part of rank and yank is bonus incentives for those not fired. The company was talking about bonuses as high as 15%, knowing they could split the salaries of the people they planned to fire. It's strange how no one but supervisors were excited about that.
Look forward to getting the usual communist propaganda from the company by mail for a while. The idiots in HR sent me a big fat glossy book, personalized with my own numbers, about what great benefits the company has for it's employees. The only thing they missed in the personalization was the fact that I was fired. How sofisticated, the company really loves me.
My company was big, but Time/Warner is much bigger. I wonder if the Netscape people are going to have it that much worse than I did. Nah, it's hard to get worse than fired, no matter how the jack-asses dress it up.
Welcome to the great suck that is the "recovery". I've been out of real work for more than a year. I'm not really happy to have lots of company.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
So do I. Though only as an event in history. Netscape Communicator is gone. Dead. Arising from its ashes, however, is a top class browser that leaves netscape communicator and internet explorer coughing in its dust. Let go of netscape. AOL had no problem doing so.
ibhear
The napkin makers got over it. So should you.
The problem with your analogy is that the napkin makers still get paid. McDonald's pays napkin makers so that a McDonald's customers can have free napkins. And more likely then compared to textiles and gasoline, napkins are probably made in America, which puts money back into Americans pockets.
The main issue with more and more industries going overseas for workers is that less money is being given to the American public, yet people are still in the constant-consuming mindset. And they are going into debt over it, so that they can have that nice car and the big projection TV and the cell phone. Just like all the commercials tell them they deserve.
Although the tech industry has really brought this upon themselves during the boom. I recently read an article (saw the link on Fark, too lazy to look it up) about a guy who started a consultant company. While looking for workers he decided to try something novel (to him and most tech workers it seems, but not to someone like me who's lived this). He decided to offer positions for the same wages that Indian programmers are offered: $45,000 a year. Being a Canadian who hasn't bothered with looking for work in the US, I was personally shocked by this. If the only reason US tech workers aren't finding jobs is because no one is willing to offer a good wage (not extraordinary, buy-me-a-Lexus-and-an-SUV kind of wages, but good enough to live modestly), then I feel no pity for companies at all. The guy who offered those wages was flooded with resumes. People are obviously willing to work, despite not having the huge paychecks. But they have to be given the chance. Companies have to realise the value of hiring locally at fair wages.
Now as for textiles...everyone but the main "Promotional" companies (i.e. Nike, etc) is getting screwed on that deal. People really should be upset over that entire industry...
Oh grow up. You're putting words into my mouth that are utterly without basis from what I posted. I think any job loss is bad news, and 450 is really distressing. I've been in situations where I've put my shirt on the line for a company I believed in and, in some cases, just wriggled through, and, in other cases, paid the price with my job. And, hey, guess what? In one of those cases I was the sole programmer at a company that ended up struggling and decided to cut me loose first.
If you read my direct quotation of the 2% figure as being somehow trivializing, then you're deliberately trying to spin it. 2% of a company's workforce is, to me, fairly substantial. Getting rid of innovative people such as the undisputedly talented programmers under discussion here is a very real and serious action.
Looking at your other post on this topic, it looks like you've got a chip on your shoulder, but it's certainly justifiable. Unlike you, I'm not going to wish you ill or gloat, because I've been there and know how much it sucks, and it's just not worth it to spread the bitterness. I really do hope you find a job soon.
but the real change came when the TW people found out that they got screwed in the merger
Why is it that every time someone uses a phrase similar to this one, they get modded up insightful? I am voiding my mod points right now to respond to this uninsightful BS.
TW was not a clear 'victim' in the merger... So the stock fell... Is that AOL's fault? Everyone's stock has fallen since the late 90s. If you think that the entertainment industry wasn't hit, take a look at the following graphs:
Disney
Viacom
So, just because the stock tumbles, it is AOL's fault? It looks to me that TW stock probably would have fallen just as well... Has anyone ever thought for just a second that maybe AOL was the victim? I mean, didn't TW accept the terms of the merger because they were in debt up to their neck? In fact IIUC, a great deal of AOLTW's current debt is left over from TW pre-merger. So the bubble burst before AOL could pay it down for them, does that make TW a victim (or a bunch of whiners)?
I have a vested interest in TW, but I don't think AOL bashing does any good. It also seems like this is just another case of people letting the press think for them, and not doing any research on their own.
One note I will make though, is that the AOL management was inexperienced compared to the TW management, and the company is in good hands now with the previous TW management in charge (Dick Parsons, et al.). But that doesn't mean it was a fight to push AOL mgmt out because AOL screwed TW, I think that the board just saw the value of TW mgmt experience and moved them up the ladder.
"From that viewpoint going with Microsoft sounds like the smart thing to do. "
An alliance with Microsoft always looks good on paper. It's probably pretty good financially too until the day MS stabs you in the back and takes off with you technology or customers.
War is necrophilia.