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When Good Patents Go Bad

will writes "The Washington Post has a good review of patents in the information age. The insanity of the US patent system has been chronicled on this site numerous times in the past (for example, an FTC report on patent policy, some patents for obvious applications such as Microsoft patenting local weather, and Amazon patenting inside book searching). The Washington Post article does a good job of overviewing IP issues today, why the current US patent systems fails in the information age, and gives an example of patent extortion. Excuse me while I patent my DNA."

15 of 220 comments (clear)

  1. A list of some other ridiculous patents... by tcopeland · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...can be found on Pieter Spronck's aptly named ridiculous patents page. "Scoring based upon goals achieved and subjective elements" - very nice.

  2. Another reason for ridiculous patents by Brahmastra · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's not just that it's easy to get ridiculous patents through the Patent office. There are incentives in most companies for employees filing patents such as cash, stock options, etc. This not only inspires some people to come up with good ideas, but it also inspires a lot of people to come up with crap just so that they can get some $$$ (yeah I'm one of them too).

    1. Re:Another reason for ridiculous patents by maximilln · · Score: 5, Interesting

      -----
      Pharma (15 years) - A chemical composition for curing a specific ailment or modifying a biological process. All Pharma patents must be vetted.
      -----
      Background...

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      That is, the research must be done showing that it actually does what it CLAIMS it does
      -----
      Have you heard of angiogenesis inhibitors? They are chemical compounds which battle cancer by preventing tumours from growing additional blood vessels. If the tumour cannot grow more blood vessels then it, theoretically, will starve itself into remission.

      I was at a project meeting one time where the department head was singing the praises of the latest round of developmental angiogenesis inhibitors. He was pointing specifically to data from mouse models which showed that, after the compound had been introduced to a mouse with a tumour, the tumour decreased in size and entered remission as opposed to mice who had been given a placebo. The size of the tumour was determined by cutting it out of the mouse and using a balance to determine its mass.

      To verify that the compound was doing what it was supposed to be doing I asked if anyone checked the vasculature in the tumour. Were the veins and arteries smaller or thinner? Was there evidence that the tumour decreased in size due to reduced vasculature? Was there any evidence that the compound was working as an "angiogenesis inhibitor" and not by another mechanism? The department head looked like a fish out of water for five seconds and then began a 30 second rant about how I was an incompetent fool that needed to go to graduate school before I understood anything about biochemistry.

      Needless to say the company was still pursuing filing a patent for the new "angiogenesis inhibitors" when I left. It never ends.

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      +++ATHZ 99:5:80
  3. The lawyers will win. by grub · · Score: 5, Interesting


    This is going to be a giant windfall for the lawyers in all this as there will have to be an overhaul of the patent laws and system.

    Here's a prediction too: after the "fecal matter hits the rotary cooling device" in all this patent fiasco you'll see an increase in the number of people going to law school. Mainly for IP law, too. Don't laugh, remember how the non-geek masses took computer science in the 90's because that's where the money was?

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  4. One problem with many patents.. by overbyj · · Score: 5, Interesting

    is that they are fishing expeditions. IANAPL (...patent lawyer) and I don't pretend to understand the intricacies of computer-related patents, but there is a fundamental flaw i the patenting world.

    For example, as a chemist, I search the patent literature trying to find out what chemical reactions have been reported. It is a well-known fact that you have to take the chemical patent literature with a huge grain of salt (no pun intended!) because many times, the reaciton simply doesn't work the way it is reported to work. The chemical patent literature is not a peer-reviewed process like scientific journals are. It is significantly harder to get an article published in the chemical literature than to patent that material.

    I guess what I am getting at, is that there is rampant patenting taking place with few significant things to show for it. Chemists patent anything and everything they can in the off-chance that someone will use it in an industrial process. They are just total fishing expeditions. I know that there will certainly be people out there to correct me with their own opinion, but in my opinion, it just points to a flawed patent system.

    --
    No trees were harmed in the composition of this; however, numerous electrons were inconvenienced.
  5. information patents: life as info by gobbo · · Score: 4, Interesting
    If you're concerned about the dangers of rampant patenting, especially by the 'Life Sciences' sector, check out the research by the ETC group.

    They started as an agriculture research and advocacy group (RAFI) and morphed into ETC about the time they started discovering how broad the patenting system's enclosure of life forms and genetic structures was getting. It's an issue with huge implications, since ideas, biological structures, and living beings are being patented in sometimes outrageous ways.

  6. America's Goofiest Patents by GillBates0 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Google's your friend: Totally Absurd Inventions

    Categorized and arranged alphabetically in all their royal glory.

    My favorite: The Blind Spot Toy:
    USA patent 4,477,3358 / Issued 1994
    It is never too early to start your Christmas holiday shopping. Why not be original this year and avoid the toys that everyone seems to be buying? Why not give the gift that keeps on giving, the "Apparatus for Aligning Image with Blind Spot of the Eye"!! Patented in 1975, this toy allows the user to locate their blind spot! In order to play this amazingly fun game, strap the toy tightly on the top of your head.

    Close your left eye and focus on the dangling tab with your right eye, then switch eyes. Voila! The dangling tab has disappeared into your blind spot. Not only will this invention provide endless hours of fun and good times for everyone (especially at parties), but anyone wearing this apparatus will unquestionably become irresistible to the opposite sex. Enjoy!

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  7. Re:What makes a bad patent? by taniwha · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I've always thought that a great patent should pass the Edison test: "do you think that your patent would impress Edison?" (assuming Edison was up on modern technology etc etc).

    Or in other words - "is it a great wonderfull new idea rather than just an incremental change that would be obvious to any engineer faced with the same problem?"

    IMHO probably one of the worst problems with the current patent system is the inability of the patent examiners to judge the "obvious to a practioner of ordinary skill in the field" test. A few years back I was engaged on an x86 cloning project .... it's a patent minefield, with the spectre of Intels lawyers looming at every term .... we came up with a wonderfull (though complicated) way to get around one of Intels primary (and IMHO obvious, with prior art) patents .... only to have a patent appear from a 3rd company with exactly the same solution ... since both companies had come up with the same solution faced with the same problem boxed in by the same Intel problem patent I would argue that the solution was obvious to "ordinary computer architects" at the time ... but there's no way I can see for a patent examiner to know or understand that - and since there's no way to bring these issues up untill after the patent has been granted - which means going to court ....

    The patent minefield isn't really getting any bigger ... it'sm just that the mines keep getting closer together ...

  8. Why VisiCalc wasn't patented by tigertiger · · Score: 5, Interesting
    There is an interesting article by Dan Bricklin, one of the inventors of VisiCalc (the first spreadsheet programs), on why they didn't patent VisiCalc. It's simple - patenting software was only possible after 1981. Think what the industry would look like if people had been able to patent spreadsheets (VisiCalc), full-screen word processing (WordStar and many others before), and windowing systems (Xerox PARC and Apple Lisa).

    The bad news is that Bricklin thinks software patents are bad, but since they are here, you have to try to patent as much as possible. I guess soon we will have to take out patent-infringement insurance with premiums as high as our salaries.

  9. Re:What makes a bad patent? by forevermore · · Score: 3, Interesting
    their real customers would seem to be the [book buyers]

    Don't discount the revenue of advertisers to retailers. If Amazon is anything like most grocery/department stores, they get a lot of money for product placement. When I was just out of high school, I worked for a company that was paid to go around to grocery stores, take down a bunch of product from the shelves and put it back up in a different order. Why? Because the stores don't own the layout on the shelves - certain products do (in my case, Gillette happened to own the shaving cream and deodorant shelf layouts).

    But this has nothing to do with patents.

    --
    Do you really need reason for beer? Wingman Brewers
  10. Re:What makes a bad patent? by dslbrian · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You're honestly of the impression that there is actually a sizable minority of people who would like to invent something with no guarantee to their right of exclusive production?

    I work as a EE in a company and I've been in this situation myself before. I've become so disgusted with the patent process that I've decided that I'm not filing any more patents. If I was working independently as an entrepreneur I might have a different opinion - and it is my belief that that is the real justification behind patents - to protect the entrepreneur long enough to get their product to the market.

    However the patent system today doesn't serve to protect individuals, its now nothing more than a corporate club for litigation against any would be competitors. Its used by companies that are already well established and are in no danger of not getting a product to market. I remember someone once telling me the way patent settlements are reached is that the lawyers all gather in a room and the companies put their stacks of patent papers side-by-side, the difference in height yields the settlement fee. More recently there has been a trend towards reviving old patents on things that are obvious or have been in use for decades (ie. Forgent's "jpeg" patent). Its nothing more than a money grab by parasites abusing the patent system.

    So back to the original point, yes I've invented things before - but no I don't care if the company I work for gets exclusive rights to it. You see it takes time and effort on my part to file a patent, and what do I get for my efforts - a small wad of cash, big freaking deal. Now on the other hand if I don't patent it, I get to take that knowledge and use it again, for myself or for any other company I work for. Further as soon as the circuit I worked on gets fabricated, it becomes prior art and can no longer be patented after that. Its a selfish motive on my part (no more selfish than the patent grabbing company though), but in the end my method serves myself and everyone else better (well at least the people I work with since they get direct benefits of that prior knowledge)...

  11. Re:All I can say is... by elwinc · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Perhaps Berners-Lee read Don Lancaster's Patent Horror Stories (pdf) or some of the other stuff in his Patent Avoidance Library. Don makes a pretty good case that the patent system is at best misunderstood and frequently inimical to the small inventor.

    --
    --- Often in error; never in doubt!
  12. Anti - Patents? by mhotas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There ought to be such a thing as antipatents. These would work like regular patents, in that they would be registered, and somebody gets to claim credit, but also disavow ownership. So whatever the idea is, it's explicitly in the public domain, and whoever claimed it first gets some positive attention. Kind of like the GPL, but not just for code.

  13. The really scarey part by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It is not that patents are being granted here in the US to large companies who make large contributions to Politicians. Rather, it is the fact the we are pushing this insane approach to patents on other countries and they are actually considering it.
    We have created a monster and that should be obvious to all. Yet other nations and regions are considering it. What a nightmare.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  14. Re:IP/slavery meme by argoff · · Score: 3, Interesting


    Actually there is a story behind this. It was at a time when i was doing alot of thinking about copyrights, but every time i thought about the problems with copyrights - some of the logic - it sounded like somthing i had herd before. I finally came up with an essay comparing it with slavery and sent it to RMS. Believe it or not, he replied, and said somthing like I should be carefull because the suffering caused by slavery was far more atricious than what is suffered by copytights. Like more often than not, he was right.

    So anyhow I was chewing on that for awhile, and long behold a week later I stumbled upon an article in the berkley daily planet writen by a pharmacutical exec trying to justify some AIDS patent lawsiuts against africans. The arguments that they had no incentive without patents, and that they were generous to Africans sure sounded like there was no incentive to grow cotton, and we are kind to our slaves on the plantation. From my history lessons.

    The meaning of the 1850s today, the quiet violence, the nature of rights, the historical perspective, all those have stories too - but i just dont have time to elaborate here.