Spain, Morocco To Build Undersea Rail Tunnels

DoraLives writes "The BBC reports that Spain and Morocco 'have agreed to build a 39-kilometre rail tunnel beneath the Mediterranean Sea, to link Europe and Africa.' and that 'This plan could be put into action as early as next year...' Fairly daunting technical piece of work should they attempt it, but the prospect of an all-rail trip from Edinburgh to Tangiers is intriguing to say the least."

Comments

Having lived in the area...

[mindstrm]

I lived in Gibraltar for a while.

There are a lot of ferry rides across between Spain & Morocco on a daily basis. They are usually always packed.

Ferries run from Algeciras to Tangiers and Ceuta

Ferries also run several days a week from Gibraltar to Tangiers (not to Ceuta, I dont' think.. Spain hates Gib)

There is definately money to be had, anyway....

The economic value of such a tunnel would outshine any "spat" over territory...

What are they fighting over, anyway, Ceuta?

(Ceuta is a spanish protectorate/territory/colony/whatever in morocco, basically across the straight from Gibraltar.)

Commercia shipping is probably one of the largest reasons. Right now, the only way to get stuff from North Africa to ship it over the water. That's slow.

This would also give shippers a reason to bring more goods through Spain, as opposed to shipping around Spain (once you have the stuff loaded onto a ship.. might as well use that to your advantage.. why bother with spain at all?)

From Gibraltar or Algeciras to the coast of Morocco is about 15 miles, on a clear day you can see the Rif mountains in Morocco... if you are elevated at all, you can see the beaches and houes of Morocco.

A bridge or tunnel is not THAT rediculous, though given the fact that it's open ocean, and all that implies, it's no easy task.

Re:Why not cars?

[tornado2258]

Tunnels are dangerous enough for trains. The last thing you want to do is let any old person in there with a car. Any accident causes lots of problems.

This is going to be a 39km tunnel and if you have an accident in the middle then you have problems getting emergency services in and other people out. The other people tend not to react all that sensibly either when they see flames and realise thay are 15km from an exit.

From a moroccan who has resided 4 years in Spain:

[__aailob1448]

Morocco exports a lot of goods to Europe. Some of them completely native like fruits and vegetables, phosphate, (hashich :p), etc. Others are produced by foreign companies outsourcing to Morocco (though not nearly as much as one would hope for) France, Spain, Germany, Italy and the U.K are some of Morocco's main economic partners.

It goes without saying That Morocco also imports from those countries quite a bit. Some more traffic right there.

Morocco is also a touristic destination. (And I am shamelessly plugging it when I say: Go visit! I swear you'll like it. Really :) I believe it gets around 2-3 million tourists a year (many of them people of Moroccan extraction residing in europe) which, while by no means comparable to Spain's 50 millions or France's 70 millions are still important to its economy and are a vital source of hard currency. That's some more traffic right there.

And last but not least, It is also a hub between Europe and Africa so part of many african countries' exports and imports also go through Morocco.

Anyways, My point is that there is PLENTY of traffic taking place between Spain and Morocco and that a tunnel or a bridge linking the two countries DOES make plenty of economic sense. As the article pointed out, talks about this have been going on for decades now and it is actually surprising this has not happened sooner (taking into account that The distance between Tangiers and Algeciras is a measly 10 miles).

And for those unfamiliar with the territorial "spats" between Morocco and Spain, it goes something like this:

A few hundred years ago, Spain conquered a couple of northern moroccan cities (sebta and imlilia a.k.a ceuta and melilla). They have been spanish ever since but Morocco still officially wants them returned (The truth is no moroccan I've ever known cares about that.) They are tax-free zones and a LOT of cheap contraband stuff (from eletronics to candy) comes from them. My first playstation most probably came from there :)

The Western Sahara is a different issue. Spain was ocuppying it during the days of european colonization and it was taken back about 3 decades ago at the end of a "million men" peaceful march. Since then, Spain has been trying to make it an independant country so that they could fish within it's territorial waters for cheap. Now THAT is a very touchy subject for your average moroccan. You know..pride, territorial integrity, yadda yadda. The government has been stalling a referendum supposed to take place there and giving incentives to Moroccans to relocate there in hopes of skewing a future vote.

Back to the topic. I'm a bit disappointed that the tunnel is going to be trains only. I was actually hoping for something that allows cars and trucks to travel through. I guess the ferry businesses lobbied against it to avoid certain bankruptcy.

Vaporware Tunnel

[bruckner]

Full disclosure ahead: I am a Spaniard, I lived for 2 years in Morocco (Casablanca) and I work in the railway business (software engineering, not civil engineering, but you can't have it all, can you?)

Believe it or not, but this is actually possible. Spain might not be any more the country many of you thought it was. Civil engineering in Spain and the rest of Europe is pretty advanced these days, as far as huge tunnels are concerned. Just look at Madrid's Metro and its spectacular growth here: http://www.metropla.net/eu/mad/metrosur.htm. The Line 12 was put in service in just 3+ years, and spans 40+ kilometres of underground tracks and stations. Look at the 27 kilometre high speed rail double tunnel currently being built beneath the Sierra de Guadarrama, a granitic mountain range 2500 metres high (http://www.geodata.it/english/progetti/gallunghe/ guadarrama/), which will connect Madrid to the northern cities of Segovia and Valladolid. And last, but not least, the longest metro line in Europe, currently under construction, is the Line 9 in Barcelona, which will also feature fully automated trains (http://www.finanzas.com/id.5214701/noticias/notic ia.htm, in Spanish).

However, having said this, I don't believe we will actually see this happen in our lifetimes. First of all, 27e6 euros (30e6 $) aren't enough even for preliminary studies of such a complex undertaking. The current Spanish government is extremely interested in infrastructure and development work if and only if two or more of the following apply: a) political gains are to be obtained, b) civil engineering firms tycoons line up their pockets even more and c) the european union foots a significant percentage of the bills.

And then comes Morocco, a developing country en route to democracy. Morocco has comparatively few transportation infrastructures deployed: around 1000 km of electrified, standard gauge railways. You simply don't build a tunnel to nowhere, unless Spain and the EU are strongly commited to finance development works there (and they currently aren't, and most likely won't be in a foreseeable future, even though it might be a hell of a good idea to even out differences and further good neighbour relationships in the Mediterranean area).

Lastly, governments of Spain and Morocco are at odds over several issues, the least important of which are the ones that got more attention in previous comments: territorial disputes and terrorism. The main troubles between Morocco and Spain (and the rest of EU) are immigration and commerce, and both of them receive a harsh treatment by the Spanish government. No compromises will be agreed upon unless forced by a third party, just because such an attitude improves the outlook of Aznar and his cabinet among the population right wing.

So, unfortunately, I believe this tunnel is just vapor, and will dissipate sooner or later depending on the result of the ongoing UN-sponsored Western Sahara negotiations...

Ivan