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Open Source CD Lending For Public Libraries?
phatlipmojo writes "Bob Kerr has taken what might well be an important step in getting open source software to the masses: donating CDs to public libraries for lending. It's a simple idea, but fraught with complications; indeed, at first, he couldn't give the CDs away to the wary libraries. Mr. Kerr dealt with the complications admirably, and has had a great deal of success getting open source CDs into lending libraries around his home country, as Mr. Kerr's howto PDF and this NewsForge article detail. What kinds of suggestions would Slashdotters make in addition to Mr. Kerr's to help make open source software on public library shelves a widespread reality?"
Hmm...
This could do well in association with a local User Group of some sort, methinks.
Getting a bunch of people together to organize the CD labeling, DVD-cases instead of jewel cases, etc could help spread the cost and work around, as well as creating a perfect "next step" for the people checking out the software - a user group basically waiting for them.
I especially like the quote: Forcing anyone to do something they don't want to do just breeds resentment.
That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
I suggest to Mr. Kerr, that he consider BYOCD (bring your own CD). Users could burn their own cdroms from a plethora of projects that meet a particular library criteria, for quality and safety.
It might be smart for libraries to offer two methods for achieving this:
1) Library burns cds on demand for a small fee.
2) Users burn cds themselves.
Having actual cdroms on a shelf for people to "check out", as it were, is likely a bad idea for a number of reasons. The large volume of cds occupying shelves would be a copy of the old library system, so it would likely be their default method, but it's incorrect, imho; it's a waste of space; it goes against the mighty electronic way. Burning on demand is the way to go because the open source community could ensure that the most recent versions of software are available, and that fresh new content would flow into libraries everywhere, rather than fill up shelves until the place has no more room.
Stop gaps could be issued at the base system, to prevent abuse, and this would be much easier if the product was electronic.
...he even provides a sample CD cover insert (on the next-to-last page of the PDF file).
Major props to him for taking the time to write up his experiences - both the successful moves and not-so-successful ones as well.
The Army reading list
...just to make sure what went out is what came back in. :-)
(Admittedly I have not yet read the article he may well have covered this.)
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I just love this idea. I can just imagine the thrill I would have had a teenager back in the late 70's to be able to go down to the library and "check out" an operating system, install it, and return it the following day. Perhaps I'm simply nostalgically emoting, but this seems like a nice idea to increase the grass roots of open source generally.
www.enthea.org
I guess it's time to add some trojans to CD's and give them to the library.
A project for your local Linux group: Take an old machine with a burner and donate a Linux kiosk to the library. Install enough hard drive space to hold ISOs of recent versions of the most popular distros. Make an intuitive menu for selecting a distribution to burn and then just have the user insert CDs after that. The library could sell blank CDs or users could bring their own..
Create an Event out of it.
... now you're talking!
Encourage people to bring their PCs and have them installed/configured with various FOSS stuff like OOorg.
Combine this with a programme to train young people in IT and you have your enthusiastic staff.
Use the library as the place where these two meet.
Turn it into a para-religious experience: "Born Again Penguins", as people dip the parasite-ridden carcinogenic carcasses of their old WinXP boxes into the holy water of Linux and come back home with a brand new box.
Mix it with booze and music.
Move it from the library to a spacious converted warehouse.
Add a coffee bar and wireless hotspot.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
A lot of software are large downloads, which people without broadband connections for whatever reason (for example, living in the middle of nowhere, like me) can't reasonably download. It would be much easier and faster to get software from somewhere, already downloaded.
I was checking around the stacks at my local library and saw that they had a Learn Linux book (Yah!) but the installation CD was for RedHat 6.2 (Uhoh..) I was very tempted to slip a recent install into the book along with a card explaining it.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
OpenOffice.org
KNOPPIX
Mandrake LiveCD
Debian installation CD
Fedora
The for-Windows
Can anyone think of any more? Mandrake and RedHat aren't likely to want people selling copies of their software, they'd probably want you to buy it from them, instead.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Am I the only one that thinks this is a bad idea? All it takes is one script kiddie or spammer getting the idea to check out a CD, take it home, replace it with their own kernel/binaries/whatever, and voila! Ownage. I think an alternative would be to get behind hosting community Open Source events... after all, anyone who is interested in Open Source Software, probably already has the means to access the large, free, online library known as the Internet from the comfort of their own home.
Someone recommended a burning on demand. Not a bad idea if someone is willing to keep the people there upto date with new images couple months and train people how to burn the CD's. Its sad to see that many don't know the difference between, say, buring a music CD and an ISO.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
I'm surprised that more libraries don't have a library of CDs of various Linux distros and larger open source packages. I also wonder if some chariable OSS-minded soul could donate a pre-configured tighty locked low-end PC and CD-burner to a local library. With used PCs being so cheap, a basic setup (with a 100 GB IDE HD) would be under $200. Either the donor or librarians could make a set of for-checkout CDs or library patrons could make their own CD bundles (paying a nominal fee for media or bringing in their own media).
Do we need an open source project to create a simple locked linux library distro and easy-to-use CD maker?
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
I live in a small town with ~21.000 peoples in it. We have one public library, and I work there in my spare time (4 hours a weak). :P
Anyway, I'll see what I can do. What software would you suggest?
I thought about Open Office, but it sucks to set up for danish support (my native language). What else would be appealing?
A full Linux distrubtion like Mandrake?
A live CD?
Some games?
While this may make sense in Scotland, does it really make sense in places where broadband is more readily available?
I mean, first off, Linux simply isn't ready for the desktop or the unclued user. I hate to say it guys, but it's true. My dad could install and use Windows, but he could not install use Linux (that would be any distribution you care to name). And I consider him to be an average computer user.
Secondly, it seems that there's a large disparity among audiences here. People who are capable of installing and using Linux simply aren't the kind of people who'd get their copy from a library shelf. Perhaps in areas where there is no broadband, okay... But in areas where there is fast connections (like an ever increasing majority of the US), they'd simply find a fast connection.. Like work, or a friend's cable modem, or DSL, or even the store shelves at Best Buy. Whatever. The library simply isn't where you find software.
For that matter, what library *anywhere* has software on its shelves? I've been in a lot of libraries, in big metro areas and small communities, and many of them are just now starting to carry DVD's, and even then it's hesitantly. And the only reason they carry movies in the first place is to attract a different kind of crowd. I mean, if the idea here is to do the same, by attracting a different kind of crowd, then more power to 'em, but that doesn't seem to be the thrust of the article here.
I guess I'm wondering what exactly the point of putting OSS on the shelves of the local library is.. What's the goal? What does this accomplish? A user wanting to install Linux around here certainly wouldn't check the library. I think the shelf space there is probably more suited to, oh, *books* or some such thing.
I'd predict that even if all the hurdles of convincing a library to maintain an OSS CD library were jumped, the library itself would suffer the same fate as technical books at most local libraries.
The technical books themselves take so long to procure because of the multiple(albiet not vast) layers of red tape that by the time they end up on the shelves, they're flirting with being out of date (just as new tech books flirt with being out of date before even hitting the store shelves).
I can't think of any open source project that isn't regularly patched, and because of this constant progression, I can't see a CD library being up to date, ever. It would require an individual or group of individuals who would simply cost too much to justify having them in the first place to maintain it.
This man may just have radically altered the course of Scottish society. He is bringing enlightenment to thousands. This could be the best thing to happen to Scotland this century.
Well done!
Stick Men
I'm the IT manager at a large public library, and I wouldn't touch this with a ten-foot stack of catalog cards.
We have almost completely stopped circulating CD-ROMs of any sort because the patrons have an expectation that the library will help them make it work, and if you mix initially lousy or just plain old software ("this storybook requires you to install quicktime 2.1") with who-knows-what the patron's got at home, it spells customer service disaster. No matter what kind of a disclaimer you put on it, circulating this kind of stuff would incur far more ill will from clueless patrons than it would benefit any unlikely geek who knows what they're doing but doesn't have access to sufficient bandwidth.
However, I would happily offer burners for public use and make blank media (and our bandwidth) available. That way, they get to keep the disc. Or hand them out at intro to OSS classes. Or mirror some trees. But put them on the shelves? No way. On top of everything else, they'd be outdated before they even made it through cataloging.
Nice idea though.
Most public libraries I know have windows machines which can be used by anyone to hop on the net. Schedule meetings with librarians and convince them to put linux on these boxes instead. They don't get a lot of money in these places, so if you volunteer to set it up for them for free they'll probably accept. The cash they save by not paying for windows licenses is more than enough. Sure, patrons might not know what to do at first, but the library is a place of learning. They'll soon learn to click on the red dinosaur instead of on the blue e.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
This is a good idea. Especially if the library has broadband internet access (as many do nowadays). The local LUG could then administer the box by providing updated images to it remotely.
I figure that with just a bit of effort, you could make a small tabletop version of this for under $1000 or so. I mean, all it needs is a cheap system, a burner (preferably without a tray, as they tend to get broken in public places), and a monitor. Form factor could be exceedingly thin with a custom casing for it, esp. if you used an LCD panel for the screen.
Thin and small is good here, because that means it's not taking up space in the library, which would make getting the librarians to agree much easier.
Write some custom software to basically provide a menu of images that the user can pick from (and optionally allow the local LUG to remotely administer the thing), assure the librarian that it's all open source software (which entails explaining OSS to them), get their agreement and assure them that it's no maintainance at all for them (plus let them sell blank CD's/DVD's on a markup, and it'd be done.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
http://fossile-project.sourceforge.net/ If I had the money, I'd just buy the latest "Linux (insert version number here) Bible" book and CD set and donate it to my favorite local branch every year.
I tried to get one system into our local town library. The director of the library flatly refused to even consider the proposal to have a linux workstation in the library.
Essentially, even if volunteer-maintained and/or no maintenance required(think Knoppix), she said that they were Windows, and Windows only, and that was because that's what the Minuteman Network supports(the Minuteman Network is a nice little corporation that's making money off the local town libraries.)
Despite being exceptionally polite, she wouldn't even examine the proposal, and complained about issues I had addressed already- in the proposal, if she had bothered to read it.
Please help metamoderate.
Hello all, Firstly I think this is a magnificent idea with some possible drawbacks. It would be simple to distribute with a donation of a CD Writer or 2 per library with a OSS catalogs on DVD distributed out to each library through the existing library resource network already in place, for instance here in Michigan a larger library organization is the lakeland Org., gathering a representative from each org (which already exists) they in turn contact the OSS distribution org for access to the DVD listing, DVD get delivered and then are listed in the software dewey decimal system for access too. Then as joe/jane user comes in, looks through the available list and selects a desired program/OS to try at home, he/she asks the librarian for the disk with *** software on it. for a fee of the CD and small recoup for library time and equipment (1$ US perhaps)the software is cooked to CD and presented to joe/jane at that time. With this said, the first time joe or jane asks for software, they are presented with a form stating quite explicatly that NO support comes from the library system for this software at all. seek a technician (perhaps even have a local Tech listed as someone to contact) The software is free, the overhead of electrical and the librarian, the CD and the access DVD's is covered via the fee. local techs gain business, libraries become cool places for geeks and non-geeks to hang again, ice cream tastes better, your clothes fit and look better, your teeth are whiter, etc etc etc
From the article:
..."
1 /rights_and_enti.html
On the CD I donated, I also included the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It states, in Article 26, "Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free at least in the elementary and fundamental stages
I'm a libertarian, so I don't agree with this, at least as worded.
A "right" is something that you must always be granted, no matter what. If you look at the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution, you will find they are rights to be left alone: the right to free speech (no one can silence you), the right to not have to testify against yourself, etc. These are "negative" rights, your right to be left alone. (You will notice a right to own and carry weapons, but no mention of where you will get them; no one has any obligation to provide them to you.)
If you have a "right" to education, where does it come from? Do you have a right to grab a teacher and make that teacher teach you? How does your "right" to education compare with a teacher's right to decide what he or she wants to do? What happens if not enough people choose to be teachers -- do we need to force some people to be teachers to guarantee that there are enough teachers for everyone?
I would agree with wording that says "Education is important, and society should make education a priority." I'd even agree with a right to own educational materials. But I don't see how you can make a "right" to education really work, unless the word "right" doesn't mean what I think it does.
Here's a good essay about this:
http://libertarian.typepad.com/independent/2003/1
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Quite frankly, with open source material and high speed connections at many libraries, I doubt that trying to convince them to find a way to catalog and loan out open source software is the way to go. Some better steps would be to get rid of, or at least repair, the annoying software they install on their systems so that you could at least download files to a pen drive or hard drive attached to the USB port. Another nice addition would be a CD writer or two in the library (these things are so cheap now they are often "free after rebate" items, certainly a public library could afford a couple). They might even make a modest profit if they also offered blank media at a small cost. This could encourage people to get the open source sofware right for them, not old copies of dated stuff on the shelfs or worse stuck away in a drawer somewhere or "lost".
Of course, I'm not sure that very many people who would use the public library as a source of open source software would not have the high speed access already, but if the original claim is that open source software should be available through the library I think there are better ways to go than to convince them to put a few CD's in their collection.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
We just dropped off about 300 free CDs at the Berkeley Public Library last week (stop by the Info Desk for a copy), during some recent events. As others have pointed out, libraries don't really want to catalog and manage stuff, nor do they want to worry about broken and scratched CDs. So, give 'em a spindle of 100 burned CDs or DVDs and let these discs walk out the door!
There are a lot of challenges to making this work truly smoothly (like the cost of putting a nice label on the CD, and troubles with competing DVD formats that don't always read correctly, and who's willing to burn them), but if the goal is to get content "out there," why bother with lending when it only costs a few cents to just give away a CD?
At Gutenberg, we're trying to start a volunteer-based effort that will let anyone request one of our CDs or DVDs via a Web form, then we'll send it to them by postal mail -- free! For a few hours of volunteers' time per month, and minimal costs (donated or reimbursed), why not!
I have seen MANY comments in this thread discussing the concept of donating Linux CDs to libraries.
In the cited articles, the products listed included Freeduc, OpenOffice, Gimp, and others. It was also stated that the software packages were installed and tested on a variety of systems, including Mac OSX, Win9x, Win2k, and WinXP.
OpenOffice, for one, is available for Windows as well as Linux.
This entire article is about OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE. There are OSS products available for non-Linux platforms.
That's all, carry on.
I am forced to agree as I worked in a Public Library for over a year as their network administrator. While the idea expressed in the article is good, there are a few problems. First (and the one you mentioned), the budgets of most library's would not be able to handle an open-source software checkout. Second, most users of library computers are low to middle-class. Finally, most of the users who would use the software already have high-speed Internet connections. The results are a worthless system and a waste of valuable resources (a.k.a. money) that could be spent on other improvements to the library's offerings.
Public libraries are frequently the most parochial in the USA.
... for the purpose of study, use, install, .... Students/community may one day habitually and freely install and upgrade the most current OS/GPL software for personal use.
OS/GPL software has an initial general target audience "The Desktop".
I suggest, in the USA, obtain a LOC ISSN [http://www.loc.gov/issn] listing as an annual "Open Source" software reference on CD/DVD media with an abstract description of a desktop OS Linux distribution with appropriate supporting GPL desktop software for YYYY. Then again a different path may be more appropriate (like a periodical) check under the LOC Cataloging Programs and services [http://lcweb.loc.gov/catdir].
Donations of OS/GPL software references (listed in the LOC catalog) to university and community college libraries, in the USA, may be accepted as a gift to the library and checked out by students, professors,
University students are more likely (I think) to discover value in OS/GPL software, and maybe even request the university library obtain the most up to date releases of the Linux kernel and other OS/GPL applications. Well, where would educational institution libraries obtain free (or media cost) OS products for their shelves and loaning to students?
OldHawk777
Reality is a self-induced hallucination.
Authentic People prefer dominion over the moment, a place, and self.
Authentic People plant seeds of human evolution, destiny, and envy.
Primitives will always enviously try to raze the dream and ideal.
_ Plutocrat Tyrants prefer judicial jeopardy to honorable death.
_ Plutocrat Megalomaniacs prefer death before public recognition.
_ Plutocrat Capitalist prefer a debased public to civilization.
_ Trivial Denizens prefer a sullied public to honorable endeavor.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
Author states that it's important to use only pressed CDs for just this reason.
Also, the author is in Scotland and states that broadband penetration is 5 to 10% there, which means 90 to 95% of the population is NOT going to be able to download these in a reasonable manner.
Even in the US, there are large chunks of the population where broadband is not available, even just a few miles out of large cities, sometimes.
http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/ Seems like an appropriate 'distribution' for libraries
Most people don't even know what an operating system -- hell, don't even know what "Windows" is.
A service like this would be of very little appeal and I would imagine the machine hosting this service would start gathering dust and would be used only once every few months.
Basically, it's a waste of time -- the effort would be better spent getting Linux into schools and such.