Slashdot Mirror
Sports Videogames And Sports - Symbiotic Or Parasitic?
Thanks to CNN Money for their column discussing whether sports themselves are helped or hurt by the increased popularity of sports videogames. The author argues: "You've got to wonder if sports leagues are sleeping with the enemy embracing video games. Youth participation in sports is declining, as is overall viewership of sports on cable and television by the targeted group." The NBA's licensing director also mentions a perceived change in attitudes: "In the past video games wanted to look like TV. Now TV wants to look like video games." Although the leagues argue "the [video] games can spur participation and viewership in the [real-life] games", the CNN columnist isn't so sure, concluding: "The leagues may not have a choice but to try to embrace the video games. But the video games' popularity isn't a long-term win for the sports themselves."
The popular Tony Hawk series of skateboard games has definetly helped skateboarding.
It's not cheap to buy into the league, give up time for the kids, check up on the coach to make sure he's not a child molestor, peddling steroids, or administering cortizone injections.
On the otherhand, $50 bucks every couple of years for a console little Timmy already has, which keeps him docile and occupied for hours on end without the need for direct supervision, pretty freaking cheap. A game which a middle class parent might have to shell out for anyway, to keep up with the Jones' pop warner or not.
The things that the game has added that look like a video game don't come from video games, but from the same demands. We all want to know exactly what happened, and have a common set of information with which we can form our own opinions, and we want it to be there at our convienence. It makes it easier to enjoy the game if some of the finer and more esoteric points are blatently spelled out for you. If everyone wanted to spend years learning something so they could enjoy it, we'd all run linux.
I've always disliked sports games. I tend to think, if I want to play sports I'll go outside and play sports. I never saw the point in playing a game-of-a-game.
Now it seems like there's no point in playing sports when you have the game!
For instance, American Football is a sport which is known for tactical depth and rule density.
In addition to the NFL, I'm a huge fan of NFL Europe (arguably a bigger fan of NFLE than the NFL). On online fora (web boards and mailing lists), I've encountered large numbers of people (mostly under 20) in the UK who became fans of the sport thanks to playing Madden. The game allowed them to get into the rules and understand the strategies, which is a critical part of becoming a fan of the sport.
Youth sport interest is not going down because of videogames, well not directly. If it truly has gone down, I think it's because of the overall decline in athleticism in kids today, because of health and obesity problems. In one of my medical school classes, we read a medical journal article that says that for all american babies born in 2000, ONE IN THREE will be a diabetic (type ii - the type more related to lifestyle, to WAY oversimplify it) - and I wouldn't be surprised if europe is experiencing similar diabetic explosions (cue unfunny '+5, funny' comments). That statistic is #&@*! insane!!! This is the first generation whose life expectancy might actually DECLINE from the previous one.
There isn't a single time in my entire life where I've been with a friend and we wanted to play some tennis, but instead decided to play Mario Tennis instead. I never wanted to go for a run one minute, and then decide "Nah, lemme play Track & Field on the NES instead and hit the 'a' button as hard as I can instead of a 3-mile run."
However, so while I don't think Madden has been a substitute for some real-life backyard football, it is possible that videogame players habits as a whole have lead to some of the weight/sedentary lifestyle habits of its players. If that's so, then tv and non-sports games would also be just as at fault...
Having now read the article, I'm struck by the stupidity.
The main argument against sports games is advanced by the sporting goods manufacturing industry. Of course kids are going to play less physical games when they can do it in a video game (whether that in and of itself is a bad thing is another matter).
However, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not going to watch games on TV. I haven't played baseball in years, and I'll still watch it if it's a good game (especially if the Red Sox are playing). I haven't played football (touch or tackle) in years, and I am a massive fan. I've never played hockey (except for a few games of street hockey years ago) and I'll watch a hockey game.
Ratings across the board are declining (thanks to more channels and electronic entertainment in general). Sports, however, is actually declining more slowly than news and entertainment programming.
That's stupid. Maybe, just maybe, more people are not playing sport because they're too fat to move? (And lots of people watch TV! It must be TV's fault! Right? Right?)
What is completely nuts though is to blame *sports* video games
This *IS* a CNN article afterall - and CNN isn't exactly known for being bright or informative to say the least.
:D
And the reason why more people play sports games? Maybe it's because it's safer then playing the real thing and risking serious injury?
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
I'm not a big sports fan, but I somehow got the impression that a lot of pro athletes (especially in US league sports like football and basketball) were kids from the wrong side of the tracks--a lot of whom wouldn't be the sort of spoiled middle-class brats who'd have access to a Playstation, or the upbringing to sit inside all day long playing Madden XXXV.
On the other hand, what are big league sports really about? Not just entertainment, but seeing people who're "larger than life". Watching a big European soccer game, or going to a baseball game, or having a Superbowl grill party is a fairly particular experience. Little Charlie Jones' Juventus scoring 8 goals against Bobby Smith's Man U online isn't and won't ever be in the same league as watching Barry Bonds knock one out of the park.
I think this goes both ways--people play sports both for the fun and sport of it, and maybe a bit for the knowledge that they're doing the same stuff as their "heroes" on TV, and people watch sports on TV because here are a bunch of dudes doing really well what you just do for fun. And wa-hey, if it leads to the death of bloated overblown pro sports, well, I don't know if they'll be missed much--people will always play pickup hoops in the park.
A friend of mine found what I think is the perfect balance--on Formula 1 weekends, he'd invite a bunch of people over for a few rounds of racing on his console, then a BBQ, then the real race. So I think it's definitely a complementary experience.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
TV is only a long-term win for some ultra-high payed sports(wo)man (Is thtere already a gender-neutral word avaiable? Id prefer sportsperson
* Dont take me serious, please!
The checkbox said "Requires Windows 98, NT, or better. And so I installed Linux
people that buy sports video games are going to be too busy playing them to go out and watch/play an actual sport. just like the people who bought the Return of the King game will be too busy to go to the movies today. that logic makes a whole hell of a lot of sense.
and then we can flip the tables pointing out how the tomb raider game killed the movie. so perhaps the next really bad football game from EA (or whoever makes bad sports games) will ruin the NFL...
It would seem that this might be a last generation to play or watch football (to take one example) of both the real and virtual kind. If the kids of today do not go to football games or watch them on TV, then financial interest in the game will plummet (empty stadiums and low TV ratings are the death knell of a sport). Football, and other sports, won't be shown on TV (except maybe on some obscure low-budget cable channels). Eventually this leads to even less public interest in the sport.
Ultimately, there will be little reason for next generation video gameboxes to even have football as a game because, by then, few people will even know what football is.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
OMG, he said the forbidden word!
I hate sports games, mostly because many of them are rereleased every year, adding some new functions, voices, and teams. I mean... I have never really seen the idea of buying them. If you want the adrenaline to pump in your veins, then play a god damn action game!
i started watching tennis from playing virtua tennis, it taught me the rules, and i understand the strategy of football and basketball much better from playing madden and nba live, both sports ive played and i watch more now because i understand the game more. video games give a person a chance to learn the game alone at their own pace, a chance that physically playing the game or watching it on tv don't give. sportscenter is nice but it doesn't explain football formations at all, madden at least does a little explaining.
Just to note, I'm a big fan of sports in general, but particularly American football. I was also active in many sports for years.
You can often tell whether or not somebody wants to play actively at a very early age. If you've ever played tee-ball or watched a game of it, you'll know what I am talking about. There's some kids sitting in the outfield picking at grass and watching the sky, while there are others that really try hard. Sports video games really don't sway the young kids because they are too complicated. Do you really think that a kid would be able to decide what play to run or what pitch to throw?
Most parents take a scattershot approach to finding out what sports their kids like at an early age by enrolling them in almost every sport available. Then, as they grow older, they focus on which sport that the kid likes the most, if any. By the time that somebody would be playing sports video games, their interests are already set in and therefore the games still won't have too much of an effect.
There are many factors as to why kids might not like to actually participate in a sport. They might find playing the sport boring. They might not be able to play the game well enough. Their parents might exclude them from it because they worry about an injury risk. The list goes on! That doesn't mean that they might not be a fan of it. They still might want to play a sports video game if they are nothing but a fan. Chris Isidore, the author, doesn't seem to take that into consideration.
Chris also mentions about how non-sports games are nothing but detrimental to sports. Most people who play sports usually aren't very interested in games anyways. They generally prefer a more active lifestyle. If a video game, or anything else for that matter, is all that is needed to keep somebody from playing a sport, then they probably just don't want to play. If they're not interested, they're not interested. Don't blame it on the games.
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
Without the real sports, the games would have very little appeal to most people.
I suggest that the decline in participation has more to do with peoples' lack of time, and the same reason for decline of viewership. A game, OTOH, you can play whenever you have a couple free minutes.
JMO, YMMV.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
These two are totally unrelated. I love how the media will pick out all BAD aspects of society and blame it on games. Kids nowadays are just lazy. It's much easier to sit on your rump and play video games than it is to go find friends to play with. It's sad but true. If more kids are sitting at home playing sports games rather than going out and playing sports themselves because of this "gaming link", wouldn't the same twisted logic say the violence that the kids are participating in as they play their games would lead to a decrease in violence in society? Yet instead games are blamed for the violence. So by this logic again, playing sports games should lead to an INCREASE in kids playing sports.
Kids are out of shape and lazy. That's the simple truth. Don't try to blame it on games. Blame it on the parents who feed their kids fat and calorie laden food with no veggies, the parents who say it's ok to stay inside and play games for three or four hours a day and then watch another three or four hours of TV each day.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
You hit on a good point there. When I was younger, I used to LOVE to play sports outside. Really almost anything active. The problem was that once I got into high school and college, I still loved to do stuff outside, but most of my friends just wanted to sit around and do sedentary activities like watching TV or playing video games. It was very frustrating, because I really did want to be active. But when the whole world (or at least the particular group of people I hung out with) is against you, it's hard to do that.
So I don't necessarily think that kids today are more lazy... it's just that there's too many tempting sedentary activities out there. While almost anyone can play video games and enjoy them, you have to be moderately in shape to have a chance at enjoying real sports. And connecting with the right people just continues to get more difficult
The sending of this message pretty much inconveniences everyone involved.
Sports games co-exist with other forms of sports entertainment. In the same way that a person may now go to a bar to watch the game, or throw a ball with their kids, or read Sports Illustrated, they may also now play the videogame. One could just as well argue that adults read the sports page instead of watching the game. If a college kid is playing a round of NBA Basketball between classes, that is not going to prevent them from playing in the intermural sports teams after dinner.
Videogames are now irrecoverably part of the sports ecosystem, the same way that radio broadcasts created sports heros and television broadcasts created the instant replay.
Lumping all videogames together in this article is unnecessary, and shows a lack of understanding on the part of the author. It's as if supporting sports gaming implies the support of Deus Ex. He doesn't say how non-sport television shows doesn't do anything but hurt... Or how bars that don't show the game are contributing nothing to the cause.
Honestly, professional sports is on a slow decline in this country because they are out of touch. While most kids are skateboarding, rock climbing, and doing other physical independent activities, sports broadcasters have stuck with the idea that large traditional team sports will always be the ideal. We're moving away from a team-oriented society, to one where individuals and very small groups work with a great deal of autonomy and specialized knowledge to achieve their ends. A weekly x-games show would probably be a hit with the ratings, but the chance to do such a thing has passed by the broadcasters (again) because of their lack of vision.
They might receive more sympathy, if professional sports weren't prohibitively expensive. Certainly, not being able to afford actually going to the game has nothing to do with waning interest. With tickets going for roughly the same price as a trip to the Opera, most people are priced out of seeing any professional event in person. Playing hockey will make you like the game, but seeing it in person will make you a fan of a team. That fandom is an essential part of the sporting ecosystem.
Part of the image of the classic baseball player was that of the clean-cut but slightly unshaven man sleeping in a bus on the way to his next game. They were hardworking individuals with a strong ethic, rough but approachable. With player salaries hovering around 800,000 per year, the image has changed to that of the pampered superstar, likely to get off the plane and have a manicure before being wisked away in a limo to the Park Plaza. Sure, they train all of the time, but that hard work is only emphasized in Gatoraid's commercials. And certainly, no modern sports star from the majors can be considered approachable, emulatable, or otherwise attainable. Tony Hawk retains this ability (and whose public stardom is based on his tremendously successful videogame) because Tony is "one of us" who worked hard and got good at a sport, but retains his middle class status. Barry Bonds is now firmly upper class, and would never be seen with any dirt on his uniform.
The sports moguls lost touch, plain and simple. This demonizing of videogames is just a sign of that.
The ______ Agenda
I live in SW FLA, 6 months out of the year the outdoors is pretty much uninhabitable (humidity 100%, 90-100 deg. F, time to burn =10 minutes w/o sunscreen and afternoon thunderstorms + big bugs...), the other 6 is's either muggy, or cold. only for 2 months or so is it really 'nice' IMO. That and with my sensitivity to light (a geek who lives in a cave... thats a new one) and general dislike of the outdoors (parents took me on a mountain hike of some 5 miles when i was 2, they didn't know it was that long... hated outdoor activity since), and i don't do outdoor sports. I bowl, quite well i say. I watch Football and baseball and hockey on TV and go to the occasional game in Tampa.
Methinks within 30 years, however, pro sports will be on the decline, as the demographic of the average sports viewer isn't getting any younger.
Logistical Chaos Officer http://www.slagg.org - LAN Gaming in Sarasota FL,USA