Slashdot Mirror
FCC Approves Highway Radiosystems
prostoalex writes "According to iWon/AP, the FCC has approved a range of radio frequencies to be used on US highways for transmitting important traffic information. The technology is still 5-10 years away from being implemented in cars and on the roads, but the FCC has set aside a special area of the spectrum instead of sharing the frequencies with other applications and devices. As for uses, there's currently a test running at an intersection in McLean, Va., where sensors can automatically warn a motorist when another car is approaching, thus helping to avoid a collision."
Does someone have a decent brakedown of the FM freq allocations? It seems like that space is getting crowded.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
What's next, putting people in helicopters that fly over highways to get the information to broadcast?
paintball
What the hell is to stop this from becoming as useless as the current emergancy vehicle light switching system (ala traffic lights), that used infrared frequencies? Some schmoe is going to make a device that makes your car think you're going to rear-end someone at his whim... Until finally the whole system will have to be thrown out, due to abuse.
This thing will be abused before it's even anywhere near fully deployed... what a waste... and as per the article, how about getting people to focus on driving... as in paying attention to thing around you... how the hell is making sure you don't rear-end the guy infront of you not a normal driving task? WTF?
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
"where sensors can automatically warn a motorist when another car is approaching, thus helping to avoid a collision."
Who would have guessed... they've invented traffic lights!
Don't they already have a device that allows people to see around blind corners? I beleive it's called a "mirror"... but then, I guess they can't get a patent on that technology.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
People ignore the data in that spectrum, and its right in front of their eyes!
Unless it calls people (OK, myself included), on their cell phone, no one will ever notice. Priorities: 1. The conversation about what bar to meet your friends at, 2. Lighting another cigarette, 3. The road, and finally 4. The radio
This technology could help save lives during right-turn-on-red accidents that happen at obscured intersections. Sensors on the cross-street detect triffic on the greenlighted street, relay a signal to the stop light, and warn the right-turners if it is unsafe to turn.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
IMHO, it would be more economical to mandate that car manufacturers put some kind of collision detection hardware in the cars themselves. This seems like an unnecessary taxpayer expense that will be woefully out of date before it's rolled out.
Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
over the X-Band
Let's not all suck at the same time please
Wanna bet this tech is gonna be used to track speeding and other unsafe driving violations?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Has anyone thought of or has taken staps toward integrating a radar detector with wireless and GPS to create a long-range, fault tolerant radar/lidar detection network? Seems like this this is a patent wating to happen...
FAQ here.
And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
IEEE 802.11 is working on this NOW. The Task Group is called WAVE (Wireless Access in Vehicular Environment), and the next meeting is at the IEEE 802.11 Interim Meeting in Vancouver in January. IEEE Meetings are open to all, BTW. Just pay your registration fee, show up and participate.
One of my long-standing dreams (realized in movies like Minority Report) is automated, self-diriving cars.
That's where I think the technology should be heading. Look at TV remotes- they prove that the average Joe doesn't want to move 3 feet on his own to change the channel.
If you got a car that reliably drove itself, even if it was expensive, you'd have people falling over to buy one.
This statement is solely an opinion. Kindly take it as such in all cases.
This sounds like a good tool. The only concerns I have are the following:
1) It doesn't replace the people actually DRIVING the vehicle needing to be at their utmost alert. We've all seen what cellphones and driving do to people.
2) It doesn't get used later on as a spammer's paradise. The last thing I want is that every car in the country comes standard with these alert systems only to hear, while driving down the highway, "ALERT! Your car's engine is not optimized! Go to carspeed.com to help!"
3) It doesn't get used as a monitoring network. I'd assume since it would be sending personalized messages to cars given their position in traffic, cars around them specifically, etc., that you'd need some sort of unique identifier per car. Let's not abuse this like the FastTrack crap we heard about earlier, and have a constant, rudimentary GPS system in every car that uses it.
Other than that, it seems like it'd be a great tool for informing drivers (non-invasively) on what's going on on the highways.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
The FCC's release says it's been allocated 5.850 - 5.925 GHz. The press release (it's a PDF) has some background on the service, and also a few notes on things that have to happen before the use of this new radio service can become widespread.
I thought that the AM band was already the unused frequencies they used for traffic reports.
Truckin'- got my chips cashed in
Keep Truckin' like the doodah man
Together - more or less in line
*LOOK OUT! YOU'RE GONNA CRASH!*
Just keep truckin' on
We have RDS in the states, you just need a tuner that can handle the piggy-backed data. RDS runs over existing FM frequencies, and requires the Radio stations to buy devices which allow them to put RDS data in their signals.
This systems is a completely different band. It's Out of Band in regards to any existing broadcast system. The concept near as I can tell, is a municipalty would install some sort of sensor(s) at a high-risk area (like the intersection mentioned) that would allow directed broadcast to a vehicle or vehicles in a specific area (100 yard limit) in order to warn or inform them.
The vehicles would be equipped with the capability to receive and relay the broadcast to the occupants (or later, possibly directly fed to some sort of software control system which could then do a visual warning instead of a audio one).
So no, this isn't anything like RDS, but thanks for being a typical slashdot noobie and not reading the article.
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
Why are they deciding who gets to broadcast over what frequency.
It's not like they could stop you if you decided to start transmitting with a bunch of stuff from Radio Shack?
What's this country coming to?
$30 Off All Plans: Use code TRIPLESAWBUCK
Many years ago I remember a collision avoidance trial in a steel plant between locomotives. We were not sucessful due to interfernce from subsonic frequencies thru the high MegaHertz range. Microvave was not feasable at the time.
... it seems to me that there is no specific need for a spectrum allocation.
I have believed that collision avoidance is quite possible but some mechanism to diminish "scattering" was necessary.
Given the wavelength and directionality of this
I don't know about you, but I've already got the early warning system installed in my car. It's called a "passenger". Specifically, that passenger that suddenly shouts "OH, OH, OH, OH!" as you driving down the street.
Then after you slam on the brakes to avoid an unseen danger (while hoping you don't get rear-ended in the process), your passenger continues, "I didn't know there was an In 'N Out here!".
...like the RDS TP/TA system...
...which has been used in Europe for what, almost a decade now...
RDS is designed to be super-imposed on an existing broadcast signal (double sideband suppressed sub carrier blah blah.) It is applicable to broadcasters that have a loud signal covering a wide area.
Allow me to save many readers the 10 seconds it would take to discover what RDS TP/TA means: TP (Traffic Program flag) is a part of the RDS signal that indicates that a particular RDS broadcaster provides "traffic announcements" a some unspecified time. TA (Traffic Announcement flag) is another flag that indicates when an "traffic announcement" is being broadcast.
If you want to use RDS (via existing broadcasters) to send a signal to a specific vehicle to prevent a collision, you have to multiplex the data gathered by a large number of sites into a single RDS stream, broadcast it, and then find a way for all the receivers to filter out irrelevant RDS data (thousands of other cars not about to collide.) Or you might scale down RDS to deal with things like individual intersections, but you would then need a reserved spectrum...which is exactly what the FCC just approved.
A network of transceivers designed to monitor, signal and possibly control traffic has a number of obvious technical constraints that have probably never been considered by RDS. Off the top of my head I think of; latency guarantees, non-interference in confined areas, an elaborate definition of codes necessary to impart traffic relevant information in real-time, priorities, etc. RDS doesn't do all this.
RDS is widely available in the US. I have it and I didn't even know it until my Bose started displaying song titles broadcast by local stations. It probably implements TP/TA for all I know. I've never bothered to look.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
ok, so this can help drivers not to violate red traffic lights. Won't the traffic camers installed at intersections potentially record fewer violations of drivers going through the red light? (you know, take a snapshot of the car's license plate; send a bill to the owner.) Won't local communities demand a subsidy for the lost revenue due to this sensor system?
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
First of all, I remember a system similar to this from when I spent some time in Germany a few years back. I would be driving down the road and suddenly the radio would switch over to this emergency frequency. You could not switch the channel once it came on or disable the feature altogether. I found it to be extremely annoying and altogether useless. Second, how long do you think that it will take spammers/telemarketers to put this to nefarious use. I magine driving down the road and suddenly every station is interupted with an advertisement using the pirated system? Make the transmitter mobile and short range and you'll have roving advertisers all over the road. You drive within, say, 50 feet of their vehicle and you get the ad. Oh what fun that will be! Obviuosly, I'm not a big proponent.
From the blurb:
"Smart radio technology means smarter highways, safer roads and a more secure homeland," FCC Chairman Michael Powell said.
How, precisely, would a radio broadcast regulated to be useful no further than 100 meters away be useful in securing the "Homeland"? At first, I chalked that up to some sort of bureaucratic lemming syndrome where anything that happens needs to be connected to securing something. But then I put my brain in gear and figured it out; what a great way to create an industrial strength vehicle tracking system. Build out a collision avoidance system and, "discover" how useful it is in tracking bad people, and then...generalize!
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
Personally, I'm looking forward to driving around in a world full of vehicles with automated collision response systems. The first thing I'm doing is hacking the rear emitter so the next time some nitwit on a phone is compelled to tailgate me, I "inform" his BMW that I am now traveling BACKWARDS!
Muahahahaha
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
The technology is 802.11 based. It is currently referenced as 802.11p. The standard implements IPv6, and modifies the MAC to enforce channel priorities (safety first, McDonalds drive through second). The standard currently includes no applications. It is generally expected that various industries (toll, ITS, entertainment, etc.) will each standardize applications for their respective industry. Expect to see fairly comprehensive security systems implemented in applications that are public safety or financial in nature.