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UserLinux Continues Debate Over GUI
An anonymous reader writes "Following up the earlier Slashdot item on this, LinuxWorld is carrying both sides of the discussion as to whether UserLinux GUI should be GNOME only, as Bruce Perens last week decided "by fiat," or include KDE."
They're targeting the enterprise market -- defined explicitly by Peren's whitepaper as (paraphrasing) the market that Red Hat gets $$$ in support fees for.
I just don't see companies who want that level of support settling for "here's our linux distro, and if you want support, uh... here's a list of 3rd party providers." Remember LinuxCare? They're still around, but only because they moved away from providing third-party support solutions.
Please ! Stop to feed the troll !
.doc is the winner of the .sxw/.abw war !
The mailing list becomes really full of this old and crappy Troll...
There's no place for two DE in UserLinux... So there's a choice. If KDE was choosen, all gnome's fans will stand up !
I talk a lot about the Desktop and I continue to receive comments about that.
Well ! everyone has is own choice.. We don't have to speak so long about it !
Who is the winner of the Gnome/KDE war ? MS Windows of course ! Like
Ploum.net.
The argument is this :
... and ...
SCO's bosses at Canopy controls Trolltech which controls Qt which controls KDE.
(do an nslookup of www.trolltech.com and www.kde.org to verify that last bit of logic)
The second contention that's a touchy subject is "Canopy controls Trolltech". Somebody is going to post a link to the trolltech site that says "only 8% of Trolltech is controlled by SCO/Canopy".
Then what the hell is Ralph Yarro (Darl Macbride's boss) doing on the board directors of Trolltech?
Link here for the skeptical.
The issues is real simple. If Canopy doesn't control Trolltech and Trolltech support Linux, then why haven't they
1) Come clean on exactly what their relationship is with Canopy
2) Voted Ralph Yarro of the board.
Trolltech should come clean. What is their relationship with Canopy? Does canopy have contractual rights to sit on the board? Do they owe debt to Canopy? Does Canopy have warrants on Trolltech? The silence is deafing. Speak Trolltech, tell us the truth.
The sad thing is QT is a good product. They could increase their respect and marketshare by telling the Canopy chumps to take a hike.
Its just like you can simply download and install mozilla/firebird/opera/etc on any windows machine - internet explorer would only be the default. You dont have to use it.
UserLinux is targeted at the enterprise community. It probably (and hopefuly) be used by non-geeky types who simply use what is installed on their computers. You can see KDE go the same way as netscape if UserLinux ever becomes popular.
I am not sure what the right approach would be though. It makes sense for an OS to have a consistent "face" to a non-techie user. Though choice is great (and it is the reason why I use linux), it can be a hinderance for someone who is not inclined to try out 5 different window managers before she decides which one to use!!
Don't Panic
Bruce writes:
It is possible for us to make our system entirely royalty-free for solution developers, both Free and proprietary. This dictates some software choices: GNOME and PostgreSQL rather than KDE and MySQL, simply because of the way those products license proprietary developers. This will support a large ecosystem of both Free and proprietary solution developers by lowering the financial barriers to entry all the way to zero.
So, let me get this straight - he wants to discourage the use of GPL'd code in UserLinux in order to have businesses create proprietary applications that can not in turn be included into UserLinux because they will not be free?
Sounds like an interesting one-sided ecosystem.
If he took this commercial-friendly argument to its logical conclusion he would dump the GPL'd Linux from UserLinux in favour of BSD. But then it would not be much of a UserLinux, would it?
I can understand the business decision to go with one DE over the others... this makes good sense. What I *don't* understand is why Perens refuses to include the KDE libs by default. Including the libs and a few choice applications to fill the gaps where kde apps outperform what gnome offers (k3b and others) would do a lot for improving the total package of UserLinux and keep some of the critics at bay.
If I can put on my tinfoil hat for a second here, the best reason I can think of for not including the KDE libs is to stir up the traditional KDE/GNOME debate and get more coverage on slashdot and other sites. Trolling for media coverage, it's the wave of the future!
501 Not Implemented
Lord, this arcane bickering seems pointless. From my reading Perens' goal is to develop a distro that "just works" for the average corporate user.
I just wrapped up my semi-annual "download a linux distro and see if the damned thing will work" exercise, and once again I'm falling back on Win2K, which does everthing that I need, and does it with a minimum of BS.
Over the last few years I've tried RedHat, Mandrake, and a half dozen other distros, on both bare machines and dual boot systems. In every case I hit the wall when trying to implement some simple or essential feature. Every time I found myself led into that arcane and recursive hell known as man pages and how-tos. (and mailing lists, and discussion groups and...)
I'm good with hardware, and can make Windows do anything I need. I have managed to troubleshoot some exceedingly obscure problems in the past. Still, once again I've abandoned Linux because I can't afford to invest weeks of obscure research just to do day to day work.
I really want to be rid of Microsoft products. I find them more irritating than useful, and surely don't like MS' business practices.
I love OpenOffice and have pretty much abandoned MS Office. I like Mozilla, and use a wide variety of freeware and open source products.
I would in a minute abandon MS Windows if it were practical, but to do that I need a distro that will do what Windows does:
Find and configure all my hardware, set up internet access and networking to allow all of the computers on our system to share files, and easily allow others to use the printers attached to my PC, easily set up my two video cards and monitors, set up to sync my PalmPilot.
And have decent looking fonts.
So far every distro I have tried has blown at least two of these basic goals and has offered no easy way to achieve them.
Again, I cannot afford to spend days or weeks tracking down the obscure solution to make something like HotSync work.
It does not matter to me whether this happens with GNOME or KDE. If I can boot from CD and have all of these things come up working, I'll buy it.
If including only GNOME allows Perens' the time to make a truly reliable installer, then I'm for it.
Three Squirrels
You make a good point about GNUStep - by selecting it, you open up the work of Mac software as well. Some not-so-drastic changes to the code and a recompile later, you've got an x86 version of PPC application.
Perhaps GNUSteppers should start THEIR own distro.
Heck, with the licensing options, all the major desktops should have a distro. Let the market decide!
I'm not kidding.
To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
I am not trying to be a smart ass, but I would really appreciate it if you would enlighten me on this issue. I may be victim to the slashdot-fiction as IANAL and I have not studied either license in detail.
My understanding from what I have read is that if you are going to make a commercial product with QT, you need to buy a royalty license. Is that not the case?
"My understanding of Bruce's goal is that UserLinux will be the one distribution that all comercial software and hardware makers will chose as a point of reference."
If hardware makers support it, then, because it is just re-packaged Debian, that support will be available for any Distribution out there.
If software makers support it, then, because it is just re-packaged Debian, the KDE people can add it to KDE.
"I fear a future in which all comercial developers will only support UserLinux."
Why? It's just re-packaged Debian. What are you afraid of?
"I believe this is what the KDE developers fear also."
Afraid of what, SPECIFICALLY?
Not according to Trolltech's investor list, which claims that the employees own nearly two-thirds of the stock. Even Borland owns more than Canopy and SCO, which put together control less than 6 percent of Trolltech.
So, to reiterate the parent poster's question: what the fuck is Darl McBride's boss doing on the board of directors? As one who has defended KDE and spoken rather vehemently against UserLinux's exclusion of arguably the most mature Linux desktop in previous stories on this subject, I'd really like to know. Frankly, any business with a relationship with Canopy is open to serious question, given SCO's recent behavior. Guilt by association may not be popular or politically correct, but in the business world, where almost all backroom deals are run on personal contacts, suspicion by association is very warrented.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy