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MandrakeSoft Publishes Support Policy
joestar writes "MandrakeSoft has posted a statement about its product support policy on its website: 'At a time when some of the established Linux companies are turning away from their Open Source roots and progressively abandoning full-time commitment to Open Source Software, many people have asked MandrakeSoft to clarify its position regarding product-lifetimes and its Open Source development model.' As a result, this interesting reading provides 8 Golden Rules that lead Mandrake Linux development and product support lifetime. This certainly makes MandrakeSoft one of the most 'Open Source' Linux companies, and all Linux companies should maybe think about releasing such a statement."
4) Free as in 'Libre' and Free as in 'Beer'!
These guys must have the best pub ever! Where did you say they were based again?aterr - an open source threaded discussion board.
4) Free as in 'Libre' and Free as in 'Beer'!
A download version of Mandrake Linux, consisting entirely of Open Source software, will continue to be released, provided without cost, and supported.
This is great news in my opinion. Any company that won't offer a "preview" of their product (like ISO's of a downloadable version in this case) will never earn my bucks. This is imperative if they hope to get me to join the club, buy the boxed set, etc. Besides, what I really want is a DVD so I don't have to swap CD's, so if I like the ISO's enough, there is a fair chance I will buy their power pack and get the DVD.
Four >0 posts, two of which are moronic SCO comments. Is anyone else nostalgic for the days of All Your Base Are Belong To Us?
Don't you, for one, welcome new jokes?
That's nice, but it's still not a Social Contract
"2) Product lifetimes are not hidden
A product lifetime table for all major MandrakeSoft products is publicly available on the Mandrake Linux website. For example, the Mandrake Linux 9.2 Download, Discovery, PowerPack and ProSuite editions will be supported with core updates until March 30, 2005. "
Why they didn't provide the link to the table I have no idea, but after several minutes (way to damn long) of searching here it is:
Product lifetimes
They sure did a good job of hiding it in my opinion. If this is something they are actively marketing, why don't they have a huge link on the front page?
Open Source Time and Attendance, Job Costing a
It is still early in this companies lifetime - so it remains to be seen if they will keep to their own rules. The fact that they published the rules is indeed a heartening step in the right direction. I hope that other distros follow suit, especially in the category of product lifetime. If Mandrake can follow these rules, they become a more attractive alternative to the jaugernaut that is RedHat, and Suse. This is especially so for corporate rollouts where EOL is important and so is ease of installation. As the "linux market" becomes mor mature each vendor will have to carve out a niche. Mandrakes may be "Easy to install and our support lasts longer than your computer". Refreshing in these days of "rental OS" and forced upgrades.
AngryPeopleRule
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
Can I get OEM Suport for Mandrake products through Support/Service providers like Sun, HP, Dell etc?
Most large corporation like to have just one support contract from one major service provider (sun, dell, or HP etc). They don't want to manage several contract for the data center equipment.
One thing I like about RedHat is: OEM support for RedHat products is available from Sun and HP.
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
You're right, it isn't a statement that can be legitimately compared to Debian's statements. That would be because Debian is not a company.
I _love_ Debian. This laptop I'm writing this on is running Debian (Thinkpad 570, -unstable, to be precise.) One of the big wins with Debian is precisely that it can make such a social contract. Companies cannot, and stay viable.
That Mandrake is willing to go this far is a wonderful point for them, and we should applaud them.
I'm vaguely reminded of a time in college when I was lambasted for only offering a couple of hours a week at a charity. When I pointed out that dedicating more time would likely result in me flunking out, thus losing my loans, thus moving somewhere else and not being able to give a couple of hours a week to the project, I was ridiculed for lack of dedication.
I forget what 8 was for.
one of the sales pitches for the powerpack version is:
"9. Compatibility: run Windows and Mandrake Linux on the same computer."
and a picture of vmware running is shown. i would buy it in a minute if it came with a copy of vmware.
but, *sigh*, it doesn't.
how can they plug this as a benefit if it can't do it, or in this case, for only a limited time?
> Why they didn't provide the link to the table I
p hp"
> have no idea, but after several minutes (way to
> damn long) of searching here it is: (...)
Did you read the statement?
"Additional information is located at:
# The home of the Mandrake Linux project.
# The home of the "Cooker" community.
# Mandrake Linux's Wiki for Cooker
# MandrakeSoft products
# Official MandrakeSoft product lifetime table
http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/productlifetime.
The club has three pricing levels, each with slightly different benefits. What I get from the club is their community RPMs, and discussion boards. Silver members get DL access to their PowerPack ISOs for free as well. Club members get to help shape what goes into future releases, and have early access to Mandrake RPMs of new releases. Mozilla, NVIDIA Drivers, etc. Don't see an RPM you want, vote for it, and someone will probably generate it.
Anyway, if you think that MandrakeSoft is doing right by the Linux community, this may be a nice way of sending them some cash, while getting a little more use from the distro you're probably already using.
... if you include Fedora Core as a Red Hat product, with the possible exception of #3 (no change in product lifetime).
#1 - Software updates for all supported products. Note that anything older than Mandrake 9.0 is already not supported, and therefore they have no committment to provide updates.
#2 - Product lifetimes not hidden. The same is true for Red Hat, or at least it has been for the past year. The EOL of the 7.x series was announced way back in March or April, and was very easy to find.
#3 - Product lifetimes will not change. This one they may have on Red Hat. I don't remember the old lifetime for RH 7.3 or 8, but I did expect it to be longer.
#4 - Free as in libre and as in beer. True if you include Fedora Core - and Red Hat reps have gone on record saying that RHEL would have no future without the free distro.
#5 - GPL code. Same is true for Red Hat's installer, config and other tools. They're picky about trademarked names and logos, but all the code is open source.
#6 - Open source development. Mandrake Cooker was there first, but Fedora has picked up the same model.
#7 - Free Support. Note that they specifically mention "community-supported MandrakeExpert.com" - so Mandrake itself isn't pledging to provide anything more than the forum for other people to provide support.
#8 - Mandrake listens to you. OK, this one they may have too. On the Fedora Core lists RH seems to be responding to people, but there's always the "faceless corporation" side of things. This point could easily start a flamewar, so I'll keep out of it.
Well, in my opinion both Mandrake 9.1 & Mandrake 9.2 were really better in term of quality. I compared them to the latest Red Hat, on five (different) machines, and I got two install failure with RH (the installation just... crashed), and on 2 other machines I got random X freezes... These things never happened to me with Mandrake...
Obviously targetted at ideologues angry at Red Hat, this is a lame marketing ploy by Mandrake to rally True Believers in another attempt to sell product.
Nothing new is announced here. Mandrake -- a good distribution -- is simply engaging in a bit of transparent posturing.
Open source entails no obligation by any individual or any company to make their product available gratis. If it does, it will be the death of open source. Mandrake can continue to attempt to make a profit selling the same product it is also giving away, but lot's of people consider that to be an incredibly stupid business decision.
Open source does not obligate a business to provide support for a product any longer than it wants to, regardless of how angry that might make some people. Nothing that Red Hat released as open source has been withdrawn.
Open source is commonly touted as software that can be supported even if the company selling it goes away. So, then, why are different standards applied to the company known as Red Hat? Red Hat users have the source. Support it yourself, OK? Isn't that what open source is all about?
Red Hat has no ethical obligation to support any of its products for any longer than it wishes to, and assertions to the contrary are hypocritical and contradictory.
The primary ethical obligation of a business is to turn a profit. That's what Red Hat chose to do, and that is exactly what Mandrake is doing with this self-serving advertisement.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
primarily for support of device related software running on sun or hp platforms. if i have a problem with the driver for an hp array controller, there's not much that mandrake (nor red hat) is likely to do about it. similarly, when i'm having trouble installing hp insight manager agents on a server, there's little hp is going to be able to do about it when you're running a distribution that they aren't 100% familiar with. when you have a vendor that will stand behind a product top-to-bottom, it counts for a lot. i wouldn't ever touch an os in a corporate data center that didn't have complete support for the hardware, and this almost always comes from the hardware vendors themselves.
Ask any MBA student on day one of classes: what is it that any company must do to survive? Of course, the answer is "profit." If you're asking, 'What about charities and non-profits?," then realize that even they rely on someone's profits. So the question for Mandrake, which has struggled mightily with finances in recent times, is whether a 5-year product life means a great deal when the company's welfare over the next 24 months is itself an issue. I like Mandrake and hope they will do well; I wonder, however, whether they have the teeth and bones, like RedHat, to profit sufficiently to improve and maintain their product whilst paying their developers, managers, accountants, et.al., a decent day's wages.
It's only funny until someone gets hurt. Then, it's hilarious.
Every bit of this can be applied to slackware.
This is simply the base ideals for any company/group that has a clue as to what linux is about, nothing more.
Kudos to them for publically saying that, but all of those reasons are exactly why I trust slackware only for my servers... Although Mandrake is my choice for laptops and desktops cince redhat's change.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
In some ways, it's better. The Debian social contract makes no time commitments on updates. It could be that Debian's support is so long because it takes them so long to get a new stable release out. On the other hand, Mandrake explicitly commits to 18 months of base updates. That's a solid commitment for those of us who want to put off upgrade hell.
Even for a publically owned company.
It's the goal pursued within ethical constraints.
The shareholders are the employers. No employer can ethically oblige you to be unethical, just as a soldier is not obligated to obey an unlawful order. Nor can a coach ethically require a team member to cheat in sports. Profit does not trump other ethical requirements.
Sure, the officer of a public company has an obligation to do right by the shareholders, but only to the extent that other obligations aren't shredded.
What? You meant it? "They make money?"
I realize you're having a problem with the OP's phrasing, but yes, they do make money. Besides the free download version, they offer a boxed set, a *professional* (more stuff) version, a server version, and a firewall product that all have a price tag. There are also quite a few users who support Mandrake's efforts with yearly contributions as a form of payback and in exchange for a few perks. The support for the free product is generally community support and the forums. Hope that helps you get over your hysteria.
Hmmm, I happen to like Mandrake, and use it on 5 systems. What their government does is their governments concern (re: the French.) And, as a funny historical side note to your comment ...they will look back to the moment they threw their support behind a tin pot dictator and basically shitted on the idea of people living free from oppression.
You do realize that, a few decades ago, the United States of America actually "...threw their support behind..." Iraq (and it's "tin pot dictator") with weapons, training, and intelligence during the Iran/Iraq war?
With your pathetic RAH-RAH pseudo-patriotic post (AC, of course), you give the impression that we should Boycott anything and everything Italian, after all, they supported Hitler. Boycott anything and everything Japanese, after all, they bombed Pearl Harbor. Boycott anything and everything English, after all, they tried burning the White House. Boycott anything and everything insert any country in the world here because ALL government at one point or another does monumentally stupid shit.
So you just go ahead and fuck off with your ridiculous boycotts, and eat your "freedom" fries, and I will happpily continue using my "freedom" distro.
For those who describe their systems as 'boxen', do you order multiple 'boxen' of corn flakes also?
I wish to know that at least one of the main desktop Linux distros will stick around for many years, be it Mandrake, Suse, Redhat, whatever. Otherwise, how can "Linux be ready for the desktop" if all the distros close down or stop supporting after a short while? Imagine it, you've managed to persuade your friend|relative to use [insert distro] only to have it stop being supported next year. At least with a Microsoft OS, you know it's going to be a few years before they stop updating, patching etc, it.
I just uninstalled mandrake 9.2 from one of my home machines thanks to your little press release. I am also regretting buying 9.0 retail not too long ago (which, supplemental to point #1, is your oldest supported version), and I'm no longer considering joining "the club".
Please do not bash other companies to try to make a buck in the name of integrity. I read through your 8 points and could not find one thing that Red Hat violates (I assume this press release is targeted towards Red Hat users). At the very least, the Fedora project is a community project with deep pockets thanks to Red Hat. They are not abandoning their heritage, instead it's a similar project with a different name. The only difference is now, in addition to the hundreds of Red Hat engineers working on the Fedora project, anyone else can contribute openly.
Conversely... I'm sorry, what is your oldest supported product again? Also while you say your are committed to providing a free product, your "download" link seems to have disappeared from your home page. Of course digging further reveals it, but then I'm provided with two choices in order to actually download a product:
I agree to support Mandrake Linux, please send me to the Mandrake Linux Users Club Registration page
or:
I'm already a member of the Club or plan on registering soon, please send me to the download page
Does that mean by downloading your free product, I agree to become a member sometime in the future?
fo0bar
(Please forgive my irrational tone. While I believe all I have stated here to be true, my annoyance has taken over my civility, and for that I appologize.)
Errata policy updates and product end of life Dec. 19, 2002, two months after the release of Red Hat 8 (well after? I think not).
And, Red Hat 7.3 is being supported for 19 months. Not quite your 2 years, but close.
I doubt it. Not only have the openly sent notifications for RHEL errata, but they also provide the SRPMs in accordance with the GPL.
It just amazes me to keep seeing this anti-money attitude in the oss community. Open source isn't about giving away software. It's about freedom. This confusion is one of the main reasons I think that it should not be referred to as "free software" -- it fosters an uninformed and misdirected belief that if someone doesn't give their work away then it's wrong. It's not people. Get over it. MandrakeSoft is a strong supporter of open source and I, for one, hope they do survive and become profitable.
Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
"Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
Actually, are they cash flow positive? I kind of thought they were not. Anyway I'm one of the people that support them through donations. Mandrake is, after all the best Linux distitution around. ;)