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Warning: Exploding Batteries
batlike writes "It seems I have been quite lucky up to this point as I habitually leave my laptop in the trunk of my car - which is just over the gas tank (duh!) . See this article in InfoWorld by Ephraim Schwartz for details. You may want to give it a once over if you currently use lithium-ion batteries."
Article was not much more than an advertisement for Valence and their new Battery Technology.
(sigh)Lucky for us they didn't require us to pay for that crap.
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
They're "venting with flame". (Kudos for the link to the site go to Steve Cowan)
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
when I read three stories, all in reputable news outlets, well, that's a trend.
This reminds me of the shark attack reputable news outlets suffered a few years ago. Nothing much was happening, so they covered the ongoing tragedy of swimmers who are attacked by sharks. Yes, this may happen but I'm no more worried about my cell phone or laptop exploding than I am about being eaten by a shark.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Don't you mean power density (watts per cubic inch)? I would love to have a battery with the energy density of a nuclear reactor.
Wasn't this the cause of all the PowerBook 5300's catching fire and exploding back in '95 when they came out? Or perhaps that was just a charging issue.... I must agree though that article was very clever in its promotion of the Valance Saphion technology.....Bringing in quotes but no actual numbers(probability) of current batteries actually exploding... I know my iBook battery sure gets toasty, heck the whole laptop and charging unit warm up to well over 100F. But I've never heard of a iBook battery(Lithium ion) exploding.....Maybe they're talking about operating these things inside a furnace, or perhaps on Mercury, or even the face of the sun....
-sonic
...not the trunk. Don't believe me? Stick yer head under the car and follow the fuel fill pipe. Tell me where it goes. ;-)
overcharge?
Li-ion batteries have controllers for a reason. When my laptop battery is charged exactly 0mAh is supposed to go in/out of the battery.
In fact my laptop battery led will blink if I take the battery out while running on AC. This kinda tells me the engineers want to make sure I keep a battery in there.
It does make me a bit weary to think I'm hurting my battery by leaving it in but really if I have to buy another battery in three years... so be it.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
"spray red hot lithium metal all over your legs and genitalia".
....
nice troll, looks like you're getting modded up too. pity there isn't any pure lithium present in the batteries mentioned
Fry: heh, Yakov Smirnoff said it
Leela: No he didn't.
Automotive batteries can vent explosive gases too.
That's why the experts have you make a "jumper cable circuit" by attaching the last ground connection away from the battery. In theory, the spark could ignite gases venting from the battery, resulting in an explosion.
I've never experienced such an explosion.
actually... they do contain acid...
superacid with negative pkA..
It's just not a liquid, its a solid conductive polymer and it's not corrosive.
I expect to replace any rechargable battery after 3 to 5 years.
I've learned over and over again that you always keep modern rechargable batteries as fully charged as possible. Never run rechargable batteries low, and if you're not using the device, keep it on it's charger!
The only exception are the obsolete and stupidly toxic NiCD batteries.
Most AC adapters max out at something like 400 mW. They'll shut off if they're asked for any more than that. Most laptop ones will only give out 2 or 3 amps at 18 V or a max of 54 W. Not 1.8kW, but pretty scary nonetheless.
-Your friendly neighborhood EE
The previous sig has been removed due to
Lithium is toxic, but only in huge amounts and, more importantly, only after a long exposure (weeks). It is used in the treatment of certain psychiatric disorders, and it isn't unusual for a patient to receive several grams of lithium daily. A short-term toxic dose of lithium is probably contained in about 20 or so batteries, and only assuming you inhale ALL of the fumes resulting from their explosion. Not likely to happen.
I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
defibrillator
Lithium primary batteries are not the same as LiIon rechargables. They can be a serious explosion risk though. PC's contained them for many years, and the PC ones would explode if you wired them backwards. In many cases the connectors of these batteries were not polarized either. This problem has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Of course they don't really explode into a fire ball but rather short circuit, heat up, melt, and leak acid everywhere.
While they don't literally explode as in ka-boom, they do 'vent with flame' (a phrase the industry prefers to use) not unlike a torch flame. Thus, they have a much greater chance of causing injury or starting a fire than other battery types.
Upon visiting Sony's support site recently, they had an alert out for just this sort of problem - but they claimed that it would only happen with third-party batteries, not the much more expensive Sony certified batteries. FUD, or is there a real difference between the two types that makes the third-party batteries more dangerous?
--- Bwah?
Yeah, your lowly little AA rechargable would happily dump 6,120A in 1 second if the short circuit had small enough resistance.
You're neglecting the fact that a battery is not a perfect voltage source. To correctly model a battery you must put a resistance in series with the voltage source, since all batteries have a internal resistance.
That having been said.. a standard D NiCd cell can put out almost 1000amps for short periods. This is why fuses and other standard short circuit protection devices were invented. Most battery packs have at least one internal fuse, larger ones will have several to handle the possibility of intra-pack shorts.
I'd love to know the Ah specification for the battery in the back seat of the Honda Hybrids. It absolutely terrifies me to know that idiots are buying them and driving around.
Then look it up.
"a total output of 144 V and 6.5 amp-hours" for the Honda Insight... about 6.0amp/hr for the Civic. The batteries themselves are Nickel Metal Hydride "D" cells.
The batteries are time bombs, hazardous waste and chemical burn nightmares.
Hazardous waste? There are far more Superfund cleanup sites caused by leaking gasoline/oil storage than battery manufacture. Lead Acid batteries are the most recycled item in the United States (more than AL cans). 95% of the battery itself can be recycled (the plastic case is often discarded. Lithium should ideally not be disposed of in the trash, but in a LiOH battery it is pretty stable. Lead Acid does offer the possibility of Acid burns, but the dilute acid is really only a problem is it gets in your eyes.. on the skin it typically only causes irration and a mild rash. And don't forget.. the explosive potential of the gasoline in your car is equal to almost 3 sticks of dynamite.
The charging process is inefficient at best (<50%).
Not sure where you get your numbers... Lead Acid batteries charging in large strings is over 90% efficent. From powerplant to road electric cars are more than twice as efficent as burning gasoline in an internal combustion engine (more than 50% of the energy in the coal burned in the powerplant ends up moving the car, as opposed to only about 11% of the energy of gasoline). Better still if you factor the environmental/energy cost of transporting, and refining the fuel (Think of the fuel it takes to run the tanker that brings the gasoline to you).
A gasoline car will always emit the same, or more pollution during its life. Most powerplants get cleaner everyday from tighter environmental resitrictions. My electric car is powered entirely from renewable energy (wind) and is more or less "zero emmission" because of it.
How many new coal and nuclear power plants are gonna have to be built when 10,000,000 Los Angeles commuters start plugging in their electric cars every night?
Most electric cars will be charged during the evening or early morning hours when demand for electricity is at its lowest. The EPA estimates that over half of the cars in California could be electric, and no additional power generation would be required. Indeed, one company showed a prototype electric car that could be used as battery when plugged in, and provide desperatly needed peaking power to avoid brownouts.
I have actually seen a video (by Valence) of a lithium ion (cobalt) battery being driven into thermal runaway... it goes off like a torch. Not something you want to have happen, but the safety systems in the batteries themselves are excellent. There have been only a handful of battery fires in the millions of currently deployed batteries.
I realize this is slashdot.. but if you want people to believe your college educated it never hurts to do some research before opening your mouth.