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Joining the Global Village
Sandeep writes "This article tells of an initiative in rural India, to provide internet access for farmers. The initiative is called e-choupal, a name taken from the Hindi name for village square. An incongruous image when you consider they still use bullock carts for carrying the produce..."
Raising the educational level of all mankind is a boon to all mankind. I am glad India is taking this step.
1) This article was in BusinessWeek about 2 months ago... Old news... Interesting use of technology.
/. membership when I say - ENOUGH WITH THE NY TIMES ARTICLES. We're sick of screwing around with the speed bump that they call "Registration". It's assinine, and we need to recognize it and tell the site that they can keep their precious news to themselves. We'll take our 250,000 users and visit some place with the same damn news - San Jose anyone?
2) I think I can speak for a significant portion of the
We are a force to be reckoned with, let's start using that force for change.
we americans should not allow this to happen.. we could lose our trade advantage
Don't want it to happen? Then do something about it. Fix up your own house instead of deciding to tear down the Joneses 'cause they're committing the crime of hubris by catching up.
Enough people here take the free market as a religion, the sole and primary characteristic of anything good, that I'd expect people to keep that in mind. They usually do in the business world. But ohhhh no, as soon as foreign countries - especially those "subhuman" ones lumped under the title of "Third World," as though Nicaragua, Brazil, Afghanistan and India all belong to a single, undifferentiated bloc of squalor - then they must be foulest evil fit only to be destroyed if they approach our sacrosanct grandeur.
So what the hell is it with that? Is America's hegemony so shaky that you can't stand the thought of another major country getting its technology base built up without wetting yourselves in abject terror?
You don't like it? Then go improve your own country, culture, and economy. Then, maybe you'll have something worth boasting about should you stay on top because of it. Another country pulling ahead worries me a lot less than one country deciding to keep the rest of the world down to protect their precious egos.
If you can't hold an advantage on the world stage by continuing to produce better technology, by managing a better economy, et cedera, then you bloody well don't deserve to.
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
I'm I the only one who finds it hilarious that you question the usefulness of the Internet for these farmers and yet provide links to web sites providing information that you feel is more germaine. I think you've just answered your own question about whether the Internet is useful or not.
No issue is quite as one sided as you make it appear. It is true that the United States has become slower to change, happily grumbling along as the world's unchallenged and unrivaled superpower. And it is true that many speculate the rise of nations such as China or India to rival superpower status. However, most Americans would cringe at the methods of their advancement tactic. India for example has those who are spectacularly wealthly, and enough "middle class" to possibly outnumber the entirety of the US, however, the disparity of wealth distribution is staggering creating a per capita income substanially lower than developed nations. This is exactly why these nations have been deemed as "developing nations." Millions still live in what the west would consider impoverished conditions and many more in conditions not so much better off. With rapid globalization, labor (technical or otherwise) has been diverted to the lowest bidder, namely India and China. By burning through human capital, India and nations similar to India are able to compete with larger nations. But at what human price?
Contrasting this situation is the United State's early run in with Japan's ultra modern and efficient sttel and car industry. Japanese competition was very much that, competition. The products made were of high quality, and cheaper or if not comparable prices to domestic products. Japanese corporations did not succeed by implementing substandard labor practices (as deemed by the UN human rights), they fought with more efficient technology, buisness practices, and market savvy.
How can any nation compete on such an economic plane. Without a substantial percentage of the population participating in the economic activities of the nation, a rise to a position of a superpower would leave little room for human rights improvements. An economy that produces materials and good which many of its own citizens cannot buy is not one deemed for any long term stable growth. Furthermore such economic situations tend to cause political instabilities and resulting market scares.
This analysis fails to regard private and political institutions and religious factionalizations within India, but is just a gist of what I am alluding to.
The promise of a better India doesn't scare me, just the idea of the future one.
Nuclear war would really set back cable. - Ted Turner
>>Is it really a good idea to disrupt these peoples'
>>traditional way of life, so that they can download >>pornography?
It is an interesting question... A friend of mine come back from a half year trip for some comparative study about rural development in the Third World, in which he teamed up with the Oxfam volunteers in many parts of China, India, and Vietnam. The conclusion was the more the villagers know about the external world (but cannot join it), the more desperate they are.
For example, contrary to popular belief, the illegal immigrants killed when trapped inside UK cargo were from one of the quite okay village in China. It is the attraction of the money and better lifestyle that driven all those people to the death road...
They are not trying to suggest that isolation would be the best for the village. The argument was, with better education, the transformation would go much more naturally in 1-2 generations time...
Will you for a moment think of "internet access" as something other than Spam, pr0n and /. ?
/.; oh well)
/. ]]
(of course, this is
The aim is not to provide "internet access". The aim is to provide farmers with live prices, so that they can sell accordingly. A similar project is on at IIT Kanpur (Digital Mandi -- see http://www.iitk.ac.in/MLAsia/digimandi.htm)
The rationale is that, because (a) farmers (i.e. producers) are not aware of what the current market price is, and (b) $BROKER is going to try to maximize profit by any means, the farmers usually end up selling there wares for waaaaaaaay less than the current market price. The diff is such that market price is anywhere between 2 to 5 times the price the farmers get.
Considering how many farmers have very little cash to spend (even by Indian standards), every extra buck per kilo they make is A Good Thing (tm)
[[ Yes, I am an Indian, living here for *quite* some time, and am aware of these problems despite reading
US is now divided as the "Red" and "blue" states. Red States = communist countries. Coincidence? I think not
This a great idea in principle but who's paying for it? /. tradition, neither you nor the moderator who modded you insightful read the article.
In the great
This is not a govt. initiative. This is an initiative by a private company who wants to become the wall-mart of India for the rural areas. So, they figure they will open something call "e-choupal", which will serve as an information center and get the "customers" to visit. Of course they run it like a franchise model, they provide the equipment, train a local person to operate the computer, and then that trained person now can charge money for the services. So, this becomes a money making enterprise.
Of course after this they start getting customer ( read farmer) footfalls in the e-choupals and now they can sell stuff like seeds, tractors etc.
P.S. Just wanted to add this because some people have been claiming lack of tractors in India, which is totally false.
India is the world's largest tractor market, with the largest tractor company in India, and 4th largest in the world Mahindra holding a significant share of USA tractor market See here, where I have quoted from-- link
Ah another post modded insightful, when it is obvious that the poster did not read the article.
This is an initiative by a private company, with the aim of making money, and they are making it. If it was a waste of money, they would not do it. They are using this e-choupal as a place to allow people to get information, and increase customer(read farmer) footfall, so they can sell them seeds, tractors etc.Even the providing of information part is run as a business in the franchise model.
As, for the benefits(if you would have read the article you would not need to ask this) -- a couple of actual examples should suffice. A farmer find from the Internet that the market about 200 miles away is paing Rs 5/kg higher price then his local market, rents a truck, sells his stuff at a higher price, and makes extra money.
A soyabean farmer looks at the futures market in chicago to decide how much soyabean to sow, and how much of the land to use for patatoes.
If you feed but don't teach, you'll just be left with the same hungry people the next year. Besides, you cannot keep a nation such as India fed with crappy rural farming methods and food aid (free food, which kills whatever farming is left in the area). India has a large population that cannot be fed by simple farming methods alone; they need technology. Do you think our own farmers use Internet because it's interesting, or because they need it to be as productive as they are?
Besides, it's not all of India that is starving. I bet that the villages that are being provided with this service are already quite self-sufficient, or at least close to it. After all, the company providing the service expects to make some money off it. Education and information will take these farmers to a new level of productivity and prosperity, and that prosperity will benefit others in the region as well. Or are you saying that we should not start education and technology in India before the very last person there is fed, clothed and healthy? That's a good way to keep them in the stone age for the next century, and all the while they'll have to draw on our support...
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
I got karma to spare so here goes..
Please, for the millionth time, anytime you see another article about India, dont go all mushy eyed about its billion residents going hungry to bed every night, the cruelties of its caste system, blah..blah and blah. These things will change as time moves forward. It wont be a revolution, more like a natural progression as the old habits die, and the old system dies along with it. The young people of this country are as progressive and liberal like the rest of their counterparts in other countries, and do not judge each other on the basis of color/creed nor caste. Cause, its just not cool to be a racist!
Now, if India were to focus just on feeding mouths, then it would lose out on all other fronts. Pakistan is more than just another threat, past has taught us more than just that. China is another grave threat that we are trying to turn in to a positive relationship. Sure every country has a good side as well as a dark side and I am sure India does its own share of black ops against its enemies, but they are less and too far in between.
India hasnt been so lucky in its neighbours like United States (except for poor Cuba), like Israel. Which is why, these two countries share a special relationship which persevered even through the cold wars, when relationships werent so perfect between India and United States.
Anyway, if the bureaucrats want to create a portal for the farmers of these godforsaken villages, why would you stop them in the name of feeding mouths? You want to stop all technological advancements just because everyone doesnt have enough to eat? If every country decided to do that, there would be no advancement at all, neither in the public, nor in the private front.
Dont be stupid! There will always be incompetent/stupid leadership if there are people to vote them in to power. To see an example, we only need to look inwards..(here..bushie..bushie..) If there are enough stupid people in this great country to vote a village idiot in to power, then are you going to blame them for voting in to power, corrupt politicians?
Rapid Nirvana
An ox can go through narrow streets and flooded fields. It can pull. It can carry. Its requirements are easily found and inexpensive. A simple cart can be built and maintained by one's self and local craftsmen with no need for dealer-authorized training nor expensive tools which might only work on one kind of cart.
And how many people ever get run over by ox carts? Do you have any idea what happens to an automobile's driver and passengers after they've rounded a blind corner and hit somebody in a remote Indian village?
Now, please allow me to rant.
Who the f*ck are you to sit in your comfy little chair (in, most probably, your parents' basement) and pass judgement on these people 9,000 miles away (from US)? Don't you think that the people in India care about poverty just a little bit more than you do? If the poverty in India does bother you so much, then sell your earthly possessions, take the first flight to India that you can get, and go live in a village and help them out, OK? Don't sit around outside, trying to lecture them.
India is not the US (nor is it UK, Australia, France, Germany, etc.). They have their own problems, and want to come up with their own solutions. LET THEM EXPERIMENT! Don't pass judgement; if you can help, then, by all means, please do so; if not, then S.T.F.U.!
Assuming you naysayers live in the USA, here are some statistics for you (from this site:
So, please tell me: why should the US be spending any money on weapons, Internet, Reality TV, etc. etc. when there is so much child poverty? Are you running around in your neighborhoods, telling poor folks not to spend any money on gifts/computers/TV, until they have gotten out of poverty? If not, then please start lecturing in your neighborhood first, before lecturing some people 9,000 miles away.
Thank you.
Did you RTFA, or did your trollbox just cough this up? "West", my ass. It is an Indian company doing this. Don't you think the locals there have some right to use this technology as they see fit?
When asked what he thought about western civilization, Mahatma Gandhi replied, "I think it would be a good idea."
Not everyone's idea of civilization is the same. People in India may wonder how ass-backwards we are here, when they learn that we are using gas-guzzling air-polluting machines to transport our produce to the market.
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.