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Joining the Global Village
Sandeep writes "This article tells of an initiative in rural India, to provide internet access for farmers. The initiative is called e-choupal, a name taken from the Hindi name for village square. An incongruous image when you consider they still use bullock carts for carrying the produce..."
Since all the west seems interested in is providing them with internet access, of all things, here are some links the farmers might be interested in. How to get clean water, avoiding GM crops and reducing pesticide use.
You would think the editors would remember to add a parody of NYT, free registration required!! Then again whats wrong with me for wanting to rtfa. I must be new here.
--- Justin Dearing http://www.justaprogrammer.net/ We're just programmers.
like no surfing while driving in the front seat of your oxen cart.
we americans should not allow this to happen.. we could lose our trade advantage
Don't want it to happen? Then do something about it. Fix up your own house instead of deciding to tear down the Joneses 'cause they're committing the crime of hubris by catching up.
Enough people here take the free market as a religion, the sole and primary characteristic of anything good, that I'd expect people to keep that in mind. They usually do in the business world. But ohhhh no, as soon as foreign countries - especially those "subhuman" ones lumped under the title of "Third World," as though Nicaragua, Brazil, Afghanistan and India all belong to a single, undifferentiated bloc of squalor - then they must be foulest evil fit only to be destroyed if they approach our sacrosanct grandeur.
So what the hell is it with that? Is America's hegemony so shaky that you can't stand the thought of another major country getting its technology base built up without wetting yourselves in abject terror?
You don't like it? Then go improve your own country, culture, and economy. Then, maybe you'll have something worth boasting about should you stay on top because of it. Another country pulling ahead worries me a lot less than one country deciding to keep the rest of the world down to protect their precious egos.
If you can't hold an advantage on the world stage by continuing to produce better technology, by managing a better economy, et cedera, then you bloody well don't deserve to.
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Once Palm gets a whiff of this they'll be selling BILLIONS of Farm Pilots... No wait. Maybe I should invest in Redhat. The potential Redhat Farmix. Wow I don't know about you but I'm excited
MoFscker
But seriously there are great things that small farmers can do with connectivity, it has a great possibility to increase these peoples quality of life.
Fo those who do not wish to deal with the sign-in process...
Here it is:
Indian Soybean Farmers Join the Global Village By AMY WALDMAN
Published: January 1, 2004
TIHI, India -- At least once a day in this village of 2,500 people, Ravi Sham Choudhry turns on the computer in his front room and logs in to the Web site of the Chicago Board of Trade.
He has the dirt of a farmer under his fingernails and pecks slowly at the keys. But he knows what he wants: the prices for soybean commodity futures.
A drop in prices on the Chicago Board, shown in red, could augur a drop in prices here, meaning that he and fellow soybean farmers should sell their crop now. An increase there argues that the farmers should wait for prices to rise.
"If it goes up there, it goes up here," Mr. Choudhry said. The correlation is rough but real. Real, too, is the link between farmers in rural central India and around the globe, thanks to a company's innovation.
The concept is the e-choupal, taken from the Hindi word for village square, or gathering place. The twist is the "e": providing a computer and Internet connections for farmers to gather around. Mr. Choudhry supervises the project for Tihi and several nearby villages.
E-choupal allows the farmers to check both futures prices across the globe and local prices before going to market. It gives them access to local weather conditions, soil-testing techniques and other expert knowledge that will increase their productivity.
Nonprofit organizations have tried similar initiatives but none have achieved anywhere near the scale that e-choupals have. There are now 1,700 in this state, Madhya Pradesh, and 3,000 total in India. They are serving 18,000 villages, reaching up to 1.8 million farmers.
As a result, say those who have studied the concept, the company behind e-choupals, ITC Ltd., has done as much as anyone to bridge India's vast digital divide: most of its one billion people have no access to the technology developed by some of their fellow Indians, whether in Bangalore or Silicon Valley.
E-choupals may offer a model for all developing countries.
"It is a new form of liberation," C. K. Prahalad, who led a case study on e-choupals for the University of Michigan Business School, said of the transparency and access to information they give farmers.
More than two-thirds of India's people still depend on agriculture for their livelihoods. With little chance of the huge manufacturing boom that has employed many rural poor in China, the challenge is to increase farmers' productivity.
Even more tantalizing, ITC now has the means to reach into some of India's 600,000 villages, where 72 percent of the people live and where the greatest potential markets lie. Most businesses never venture to an area with fewer than 5,000 people, said ITC's chairman, Y. C. Deveshwar.
Eventually the company expects to sell everything from microcredit to tractors via e-choupals -- and hopes to use them to become the Wal-Mart of India, Mr. Deveshwar told shareholders this year.
"We are laying infrastructure in a sense," Mr. Deveshwar said. Sixty companies have already taken part in a pilot project to sell services and goods, from insurance to seeds to motorbikes to biscuits, through ITC.
By overcoming the infrastructure problems that have hampered progress in India's villages in the past -- ITC decided to use satellites and solar panels, for instance, to sidestep the state's shaky power supply and lack of phone lines -- and by offering full Internet service on the computers, the company has instantly broadened villagers' horizons.
"We never dreamed of this, that our vi
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
they still use bullock carts for carrying the produce...
And why not? Have you priced tractors lately? If you don't have alot to pull or plow, an appropiate technology.
Anybody can work under ideal circumstances. -- Jeff K. (January 4, 2001)
Well, it seems that Indian powers that be have focused on making India a tech savvy country, providing programming education to her inhabitants... that's a good thing... the problem is that when you deal in selling cheap sooner or later some other will sell even cheaper.
What will happen to all these people when some African, East Asian, or emerging former Soviet republic offer the same services with the same quality at a lower cost.
ON the other hand, India should definitely do something to feed most of her population, tear down the caste system (yeah, India may be the most populous democracy in the world, but a very unjust, quite corrupt one), and stop spending so much money on the more than morally unsound purpose of eventually blowing Pakistan to pieces and try to challenge China as the local superpower. This could also be applied to Pakistan and other countries in the area.
Many will call me a troll, but the truth is that is sad to see such a wonderful people suffer so much under the hands of such corrupt, incompetent leadership.
As many Non-gov agencies will tell you in order to help someone you have to feed him and provide him with clothing and shelter first. Then you can start thinking about an education.
... y Dios vio que Linux era bueno... Genesis 99.666
A friend of mine went to several Indian villages to do a documentary and tells me that there are many projects initiated by the government to bring modern ideas and methods to villages that have functioned, more or less, the same way for hundreds of years.
These projects are bringing new ideas and ways of thinking to the villagers (like gender equality), but at the same rate, many of the young people of the village are being encouraged more and more to leave the country and find their fortune in the city.
Now will this internet-access for all encourage young people to stay in the country, doing all of their work and research online; or, will this extra exposure encourage more to leave? I'd be interested to hear others' views on this.
Mod this one -- better formatting
c gi/00/1 2509.ctl
j eev.htm
I don't get it. Why is it whenever countries like India start coming up some people in west like you get scared?
I think whenever people talk about fall of western civilization they make two serious assumptions which are wrong--
a)West has always been rich and powerful. FALSE
Figures for 1750
share of world manufacturing output China(32%)+ Old India(24%) ==56%
share of Asia == 80%
share of west = 18%
share in word population
west = 20%
asia = 60%
So, Asia outmanufactured west even propotional to it's population, and, this was true for pretty much all of the known history. Asia being even wealthier as you go back in time. Why do you think columbus wanted to discover india? for its famed money and riches. Ofcourse he ended up discovering America, and called the natives Indians which frankly causes so much confusion.
After 1750, bristish de-industrialized India,and it stagnated(for e.g. never in the recorded history were there any famines in India before 1800s. They cut off thubs of all the textile weavers becaus ethey couldn't compete-- simple solution no thumb no production etc. etc.), and China's wealth fell after 1800s.
Read this book:
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/hfs.
and this article for the numbers
http://www.rediff.com/news/1998/jun/08ra
b) Rise of India+China means fall of west FALSE.
This is not a zero sum game. With world trade both west and asia will end up getting richer.
Is it really a good idea to disrupt these peoples' traditional way of life, so that they can download pornography? That's what'll happen, make no mistake. The do-gooders implementing this change don't care a whit for the traditional way of life, and in fact want to destroy it altogether because it doesn't fit into their "modern standards". The children will see a larger world outside their village, and quite naturally won't want to live in a mud hut when they can see everyone else in the world is living in skyscrapers.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
No issue is quite as one sided as you make it appear. It is true that the United States has become slower to change, happily grumbling along as the world's unchallenged and unrivaled superpower. And it is true that many speculate the rise of nations such as China or India to rival superpower status. However, most Americans would cringe at the methods of their advancement tactic. India for example has those who are spectacularly wealthly, and enough "middle class" to possibly outnumber the entirety of the US, however, the disparity of wealth distribution is staggering creating a per capita income substanially lower than developed nations. This is exactly why these nations have been deemed as "developing nations." Millions still live in what the west would consider impoverished conditions and many more in conditions not so much better off. With rapid globalization, labor (technical or otherwise) has been diverted to the lowest bidder, namely India and China. By burning through human capital, India and nations similar to India are able to compete with larger nations. But at what human price?
Contrasting this situation is the United State's early run in with Japan's ultra modern and efficient sttel and car industry. Japanese competition was very much that, competition. The products made were of high quality, and cheaper or if not comparable prices to domestic products. Japanese corporations did not succeed by implementing substandard labor practices (as deemed by the UN human rights), they fought with more efficient technology, buisness practices, and market savvy.
How can any nation compete on such an economic plane. Without a substantial percentage of the population participating in the economic activities of the nation, a rise to a position of a superpower would leave little room for human rights improvements. An economy that produces materials and good which many of its own citizens cannot buy is not one deemed for any long term stable growth. Furthermore such economic situations tend to cause political instabilities and resulting market scares.
This analysis fails to regard private and political institutions and religious factionalizations within India, but is just a gist of what I am alluding to.
The promise of a better India doesn't scare me, just the idea of the future one.
Nuclear war would really set back cable. - Ted Turner
No issue is quite as one sided as you make it appear.
This is true. I wasn't simply replying to the AC's post (which wasn't flamebait; slashdot needs a "-1, Stupid" mod though) as much as that general tendency that I've seen directed towards not just India, but all the developing nations, and not just from Slashdot, but from nearly every forum or discussion-y site that I keep an eye on.
Manifest destiny is alive and well, only writ large. Your point on just how India's getting things together is a good one of course, but my point is that a frighteningly large number of people in the developed world would see any developing countries' improvements as affronts which need to be punished. The responses to China's space launch earlier in the year, the disaster at Brazil's rocket facility (people cheered the deaths of the technicians! Fucking cheered them, because their deaths were reducing pressure on "us!"), the list goes on.
I'm generalizing because it's a general trend, and not a very pleasant one, that's born out of the idea that somehow the fact that we've gotten into the condition we're in somehow denies others the right to that same goal. The fact that reasonable-sounding people can pull an Adam Yoshida, demand the destruction of entire cultures rather than risk being eclipsed, and recieve respectful attention both boggles and bothers me.
However, most Americans would cringe at the methods of their advancement tactic. India for example has those who are spectacularly wealthly, and enough "middle class" to possibly outnumber the entirety of the US, however, the disparity of wealth distribution is staggering creating a per capita income substanially lower than developed nations. This is exactly why these nations have been deemed as "developing nations." Millions still live in what the west would consider impoverished conditions and many more in conditions not so much better off. With rapid globalization, labor (technical or otherwise) has been diverted to the lowest bidder, namely India and China. By burning through human capital, India and nations similar to India are able to compete with larger nations. But at what human price?
For the most part this isn't terribly different from what the west went through, really. A few generations of technology were skipped when possible (and thank God for that!), and they have the advantage of more of an awareness of these sort of problems.
I freely admit that the US isn't the only country with a tremendous cultural inertia - after all, both them and my own Canada are mere children alongside countries like India and China, and I freely acknowledge the fact that they probably had eye surgery and monumental architecture while my own ancestors were busy painting themselves blue. India, China, and most of the other developing countries are going to have that same sluggishness towards reform going on.
However, my take on it is that it isn't going to be a permenant or possibly even a longterm state. I personally despise the sweatshop mentality, and agitate against it when I can, but I do know that it's going on in India and Brazil, just like China's at least partially riding their own production improvements through the laogai and similar institutions. However, I think it will be on its way out soon in India. Not next week or even next year, but certainly in a matter of a generation or so.
I want them to not have to suffer through that kind of thing, but if they have to I want them to get through it quickly, and two generations is an eyeblink by the standards of such things. Part of it might be my inner historian's taking the longer view of things than most people - I kinda like being able to think at least a little beyond the next election - but I do think that is a remarkably short time for a country to modernize in, and the fact that we're in a world that actually views "human rights" as somethi
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Because Hindi is
(a) The "official" national language
(b) Everyone here has a rudimentary knowledge of hindi, and can therefore understand to a certain extent
(c) Support for Indic languages is not yet complete, Hindi is one of the better supported ones
Take your pick.
(YES, IAAIII)
US is now divided as the "Red" and "blue" states. Red States = communist countries. Coincidence? I think not
Please, don't perpetuate ignorant data.
r m_equipm ent/farm_profile.htm
Tractors are very much in use in India and in very large numbers --
Infact India is the world's largest tractor market, with the largest tractor company in India, and 4th largest in the world Mahindra holding a significant share of USA tractor market
See here, where I have quoted from--
http://www.mahindraworld.com/mahindras/fa
This a great idea in principle but who's paying for it? /. tradition, neither you nor the moderator who modded you insightful read the article.
In the great
This is not a govt. initiative. This is an initiative by a private company who wants to become the wall-mart of India for the rural areas. So, they figure they will open something call "e-choupal", which will serve as an information center and get the "customers" to visit. Of course they run it like a franchise model, they provide the equipment, train a local person to operate the computer, and then that trained person now can charge money for the services. So, this becomes a money making enterprise.
Of course after this they start getting customer ( read farmer) footfalls in the e-choupals and now they can sell stuff like seeds, tractors etc.
P.S. Just wanted to add this because some people have been claiming lack of tractors in India, which is totally false.
India is the world's largest tractor market, with the largest tractor company in India, and 4th largest in the world Mahindra holding a significant share of USA tractor market See here, where I have quoted from-- link
Please remind me why a HINDU farmer would be crying for ALLAH???
Come on, atleast get your religions straight in your crappy troll post.
I got karma to spare so here goes..
Please, for the millionth time, anytime you see another article about India, dont go all mushy eyed about its billion residents going hungry to bed every night, the cruelties of its caste system, blah..blah and blah. These things will change as time moves forward. It wont be a revolution, more like a natural progression as the old habits die, and the old system dies along with it. The young people of this country are as progressive and liberal like the rest of their counterparts in other countries, and do not judge each other on the basis of color/creed nor caste. Cause, its just not cool to be a racist!
Now, if India were to focus just on feeding mouths, then it would lose out on all other fronts. Pakistan is more than just another threat, past has taught us more than just that. China is another grave threat that we are trying to turn in to a positive relationship. Sure every country has a good side as well as a dark side and I am sure India does its own share of black ops against its enemies, but they are less and too far in between.
India hasnt been so lucky in its neighbours like United States (except for poor Cuba), like Israel. Which is why, these two countries share a special relationship which persevered even through the cold wars, when relationships werent so perfect between India and United States.
Anyway, if the bureaucrats want to create a portal for the farmers of these godforsaken villages, why would you stop them in the name of feeding mouths? You want to stop all technological advancements just because everyone doesnt have enough to eat? If every country decided to do that, there would be no advancement at all, neither in the public, nor in the private front.
Dont be stupid! There will always be incompetent/stupid leadership if there are people to vote them in to power. To see an example, we only need to look inwards..(here..bushie..bushie..) If there are enough stupid people in this great country to vote a village idiot in to power, then are you going to blame them for voting in to power, corrupt politicians?
Rapid Nirvana
An ox can go through narrow streets and flooded fields. It can pull. It can carry. Its requirements are easily found and inexpensive. A simple cart can be built and maintained by one's self and local craftsmen with no need for dealer-authorized training nor expensive tools which might only work on one kind of cart.
And how many people ever get run over by ox carts? Do you have any idea what happens to an automobile's driver and passengers after they've rounded a blind corner and hit somebody in a remote Indian village?
(I was putting together a submission for Slashdot, but never got around to it, and now I can't find my notes. Argh!)
Some might think that tossing the Internet (5 whole laptops!) would be a violation of some sort of nanny Prime Directive and bad for them.
Sadly, they're already in a bad way with the common problems of marginalized indigenous cultures shoved off their land: alcohol, suicide, solvent abuse, etc. I doubt five computers and Internet could make things any worse!
And lose them too, fsck, fsck! *sigh* I had some good points and links. I'll go complete my morning coffevolution and if I find them, I'll submit it.One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Now will this internet-access for all encourage young people to stay in the country, doing all of their work and research online; or, will this extra exposure encourage more to leave? I'd be interested to hear others' views on this.
At some level, this type of information access may accelerate the flight of the young from rural areas. Increasing the productivity of Indian farmers means the India needs fewer farmers. This has good and bad effects.
On the one hand, increasing the profitability and productivity of Indian farmers will mean more food, cheaper food, and better standards of living for many of people in both rural and urban areas. India will change in the same way that the U.S and other "developed" countries have changed -- shifting from 90% rural to 90% urban.
On the other hand, more productive farmers means less farm employment. This leads to the question of jobs for former farmers. If India cannot create jobs for former farmers, these people will have a much lower quality of living.
The potential for telecommuting is very interesting, but does require certain economic prerequisites. Telecommuting requires every worker to have their own internet terminal and full-time access. This depends on the cost structure of rural internet workers vs. urban non-internet workers. If the labor cost of rural workers plus the cost of internet access is less than the labor cost of urban workers plus the cost of urban real estate and non-internet business processes, then telecommuting will occur. As the price of internet access drops and the wages of urban Indians rises, some types of white-collar employment will shift back to rural areas.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Now, please allow me to rant.
Who the f*ck are you to sit in your comfy little chair (in, most probably, your parents' basement) and pass judgement on these people 9,000 miles away (from US)? Don't you think that the people in India care about poverty just a little bit more than you do? If the poverty in India does bother you so much, then sell your earthly possessions, take the first flight to India that you can get, and go live in a village and help them out, OK? Don't sit around outside, trying to lecture them.
India is not the US (nor is it UK, Australia, France, Germany, etc.). They have their own problems, and want to come up with their own solutions. LET THEM EXPERIMENT! Don't pass judgement; if you can help, then, by all means, please do so; if not, then S.T.F.U.!
Assuming you naysayers live in the USA, here are some statistics for you (from this site:
So, please tell me: why should the US be spending any money on weapons, Internet, Reality TV, etc. etc. when there is so much child poverty? Are you running around in your neighborhoods, telling poor folks not to spend any money on gifts/computers/TV, until they have gotten out of poverty? If not, then please start lecturing in your neighborhood first, before lecturing some people 9,000 miles away.
Thank you.
When asked what he thought about western civilization, Mahatma Gandhi replied, "I think it would be a good idea."
Not everyone's idea of civilization is the same. People in India may wonder how ass-backwards we are here, when they learn that we are using gas-guzzling air-polluting machines to transport our produce to the market.
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.