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Unifying GTK & QT Theme Engines
An anonymous reader writes "Some guy on kde-look recently released code that
makes gtk apps use the current qt theme. Seems
this would be a major development for unifying
the 2 environments. From the URL:
This GTK theme engine uses the currently selected QT style to do it's drawing. Basically, it makes your GTK apps look like QT ones. "
It's actually just a style that makes them both look more consistant. Unifying the API is the hardest job and I don't really want to see a unified API as it would be a bit of a mongrel. To me I think the best way forward is for either QT or KDE to die and the developers of the losing project to join the winning side.
Merging QT and KDE would be like merging Linux and one of the BSDs.
The only true way to unify the two DEs is to get both camps to agree on a common widget set.
I, like many other Gnome users, chose the Gnome DE because of it's professional appearance - something which I feel KDE doesn't even come close to. There is no way I'd want to replace my Gnome widgets with KDE widgets, and I'd bet the farm that KDE people would feel the same way about the reverse.
There are many half hearted, rush desktop unification jobs at the moment. Unfortunately the only way that we're ever going to see true unification is if everyone agrees to work on it simultaneously at a deeper level than just aesthetics.
How can you unify two groups of people that aren't even on the same page?
Sunday you're Thinking Different, Monday you're a huge tool, paying too much and waiting to think like everyone else.
GTK is LGPLd. That means it can be used by proprietary software (and in fact, sometimes is). If I use this theme engine does that mean I can no longer run proprietary software that uses GTK because I'd be linking it with GPLd code?
Perhaps the same concept should be applied but in reverse - a Qt theme engine to use GTK. There seems to be more experience going this way too, for instance XUL is already GTK themable and it works nicely.
I want Mozilla and OpenOffice to use a widget set of my choice (no matter which one I choose - qt, gtk, gtk2 ....)
btw, it reminds me of wxWindows - a set of tools that allow you to compile your programs under different OSes using native widget sets of your choice. All widget sets are supported, but the widget set is chosen during compile time.
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#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
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I've tried using both Gnome and KDE, and I feel like Gnome isn't as advanced as KDE, despite what some of the other people on Slashdot may feel.
For one thing, I can change the individual colors of my widgets in my theme on the fly in KDE, something that a friend of mine who has used Gnome for over 4 years says is still not possible- the theme specifices one color set.
For another- most users never change some defaults, and the default Gnome icons are UGLY. Dark and uninspired.
Something to let me use excellent programs written for GTK, but with a more QT feel is nice. I'll have to check it out.
I already use ThinGeramik, a GTK style that looks to QT ThinKeramik for it's colors and such (also on kde-look.org).
This statement is solely an opinion. Kindly take it as such in all cases.
"making GTK2 apps use QT" != "Unifying"
"making GTK2 apps use QT" == "How to migrate off GTK2
Don't be ridiculous. There are many applications that are built completely around GTK(2). I, for one, usually prefer KDE over Gnome, but I've always found it much harder to live completely without GTK apps that completely without QT apps.
Both are great toolkits with their own pros and cons - just use the right one for the right job.
Personally, though, the feature I'd most like to see in GTK would be the chance to move the menubars of all apps to the top of the screen like on Mac OS, just as I can do with QT apps.
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
Is SodiPodi, the famous vector image editor. It is a GTK program that uses the KDE file and print dialogs.
>Call me crazy, but I'm glad we've got a choice of desktop environments.
;-)
Except for a few "journalists" and controversial posters, I would bet that most people agree.
>Not to knock the KDE folks, but I happen to prefer GNOME. If desktops were to somehow "unify," and that meant all we had left was KDE, I'd be more than a bit peeved.
KDE will never be the dominant desktop. No offense to anyone pro-KDE. By the time this all works out, we'll have a KDE and GNOME that is so different from today's that we will not remember what the API wars were about.
Wrappers, unification API's, and freedesktop.org are bringing the two sides together where it makes sense. It makes sense in a LOT of places that aren't talking yet, but I say in time it will work out.
I'd LOVE to see KDE and GNOME use "common API's" for file dialogs. Why the hell NOT? An application should just say "file_dialog_common()" and then the user/desktop/distro settings determine WHO draws it. It doesn't matter. Desktop-specific features are EXTENSIONS. Granted, a lot of people thought GTK 2.2 and 2.4 file dialog was sub-optimal. Hopefully in the future with GTK 2.6, there will be some interest in at least standardizing the function calls, if not the actual code itself.
People won't shut up about which API "rules" until much of what the API's provide has been turned into a commodity, as in this example. The revolution will not be televised.
I have heard for years (How many? Almost ten? Might be wrong) that KDE was going to come to a "dead end" because of (inster one: non-GPL, strict-GPL-non-commercial, closed development, pact with the devil, etc.), and that Gnome would eventually dominate due to its keeping with the "true spirit" of the FOSS movement.
I'm still waiting.
NEW! Revised and updated!
$Revision: 1.38 $ $Date: 2004/1/2 11:34:23 $
The State Of KDE
We have seen a lot of important news regarding the KDE project over recent weeks, so it is worth pausing to consider the ramifications.
Let us start with the recent acquisition of SUSE by Novell. SUSE was the biggest Linux distributor (though still dwarfed by Red Hat) to use KDE as its default desktop. SUSE has, for many years, neglected to package the GNOME desktop properly or even do basic Q&A... much to the delight of KDE fanatics. Now, however, Novell has purchased the SUSE Linux distribution and Ximian, a company best known for the producing the most polished and professional desktop available for Linux (GNOME-based). The obvious conclusion to be drawn from these actions is that KDE is about to lose its main commercial support.
Let us take a look at some of the reasons why this is so:
* The $3000 figure is just for Linux. If you want to develop for the Mac, Linux and Windows the amount reaches a staggering $6000 per developer.
Actually both communities are correct in their approach -- both are refreshingly pragmatic.
If you have a toolkit available to you as good as Qt, which makes re-use *very* simple, then you may very well realise that it would be easier to re-write existing functionality for that framework, rather than having to create a new framework yourself.
On the other hand, if you had no such library in the first place, you would see that it would be easier to re-use the myriad of existing software, and develop/grow a library that explicitly enables that.
Both approaches are equally valid given the differing starting positions of their projects.
No, niether the KDE or Gnome communities are vicious, it's just the fringe lunatics that pretend to represent these communities that talks all this crap. And they mostly do it here on Slashdot.
If you do some development, or just subscribe to the lists, you'll see exactly what I mean. Lot's of nice people just having fun developing quality code. Hurrah for Gnome and KDE!
Its interesting how people ar deriding this sort of "look-based" unification. The truth is that "look-based" unification has worked just fine for Microsoft. I use a mostly KDE desktop, and only once in a while do I have to start a GTK app. The same thing is probably true for GNOME people --- they only have to start a non-GNOME app on occasion. If you use MS Office, you're automatically using at least two toolkits on a Windows desktop. Windows has many toolkits that major apps use on a regular basis. Its nearly impossible to run a normal Windows desktop without regularly encountering at least a few.
Now, why do Windows users think their desktop is so unified, when in practice, *NIX desktops are really more unified? Because Windows toolkits look kinda the same! Windows's "unified look and feel" is based entirely on unification of themes, rather than on any real technical unification.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...