Slashdot Mirror
Mysterious Tartrate Conquers All At Go
Rubyflame writes "As noted on the Sensei's Library resource for the ancient Chinese boardgame Go, Tartrate, a very strong and mysterious Go player, has recently returned to the Kiseido Go Server (KGS) after a long absence. The game records can be found here. Tartrate first appeared in March, and has yet to be defeated - his identity is unknown." This intriguing story is a little reminiscent of Bobby Fischer's online chess appearances - the Go players on KGS even log their Tartrate number: "tartrate has a tartrate number of 0. If you have played a game with tartrate, your tartrate number is 1. If you have played a game with someone whose number is 1, your number is 2, and so on."
you can download his games as SGF files and view them from the KGS archives if you want :)
At least he isn't going by the name "Sai".. that'd be downright scary. Still amusing that life mirrors art..
He uses cheat codes!
How feasible is it that its an AI being used to play tartrates games, anyone know?
I've seen some amazing Go games in my life (while I lived in Tokyo) and I know that the Go mojo is not something you're going to just up and code without being really, really good yourself
Not to detract from his skills, mind. I'm just interested if any of those who have played him could not have been defeated by some of the various Go-playing algorithms which are floating around out there. Some of them are too good.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
This reminds me of Sai playing online via Hikaru in Hikaru No Go.
----
Some people are good with words, others,
Before Tartrate got so famous (infamous?) amateur go players were keeping track of how many games they were away from having played Honinbo Shuusaku of the Edo period.
My Shuusaku number is 5 -- Shusaku (0) - Iwasaki Kenzo (1) - Honinbo Shusai (2) - Iwamoto Kaoru (3) - James Kerwin (4) - Ethan Baldridge (5).
One of the coolest games on the KGS archives is Tartrate vs. Redrose (Irina Shikshina, a Russian woman who is a 1st dan Korean professional). Tartrate was black and played his first move on tengen (the center of the board), which is an unusual opening. There were two ENORMOUS ko fights, and everybody thought Redrose had won after the first one was over. Check it out, it's a great game.
If anybody wants a Shuusaku number of 6 and/or a Tartrate number of 3, my username is ethanb on both KGS and DGS (kgs.kiseido.com, and www.dragongoserver.net).
In post-9/11 America, the CIA interrogates YOU!
Eh. Never know who you can trust on the internet.
Go was brought to the west via contact with Japan - that's why it's called "Go" here. The game is known as "Igo" in Japan, "Wei qi" in China, and "Paduk" in Korea. The technical terms used in the west are also all Japanese terms (most amateur go players in the US will know what "miai", "hane", "tengen", "joseki", and "aji" mean, for example), even though China and Korea have their own equivalents.
Evidence shows that go was originally brought to Japan via Buddhist monks from China though. Evidence of go in China predates written records, so it's not certain whether it originated there or was brought from elsewhere.
In post-9/11 America, the CIA interrogates YOU!
It is true that Go is often times mistaken for a Japaneese game.
:)
It is also likely that it wouldn't have proliferated as far into the west as it have today if it wasn't for the Japaneese interest in the game.
The game is between 2000 and 4000 years old and stems from China. The first written sources on the games history stem from about 500 bc wherein among others Konfutse wrote about the game.
Konfutse did not believe the game helped anything, whereas the Taoists believed that it was a means to contemplation and selfunderstanding.
In the T'ang dynasty (618-906) the game is recognized as something which should belong to common knowledge.
About the year 700 the game comes to Japan. Where it later would be deemed as part of necessary training for samurais. Thru Go, they thought, warriors could practice tactical and strategic training which could be used in real life battles.
On a more domestic (for me) note, the first Go club in Denmark was established in 1970
... you guessed it!
Frank Stallone.
Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48, and am what some people call "mentally retarded".
Another reason that Go is known as a Japanese game is the fact that the standard rule set we use today was developed in Japan during the Tokugawa period.
I'm not certain, but I believe that what was added in Japan was the handicapping system and the half-point komi to prevent ties.
In Korea, for instance, I know that the work 'baduk' is used to refer to Japanese-rules Go, but another word is used to refer to 'old' Go.
I don't know about China.
You are attempting to read sigs. Cancel or Allow?
This guy is nothing but some 9 Dan pro slumming. No big deal. The REAL big deal would be if it was a program. That would be UBER-REVOLUTIONARY as programs famously suck at Go.
To cover my ass though - a 9 Dan pro is God Almighty at Go. I will never beat one. I saw a 9 Dan pro play a 6 Dan amateur on a Go server. He spotted the amateur 9 stones and was behind all the way to the end where he pulled ahead and just beat the guy by 3 stones. He knew all along what he was doing. It was slick as hell.
Here's the kicker though - while he was doing this he was also playing another guy at the same time. That's right - he was playing two games at ther same time and he STILL beat a 6 Dan amateur with a 9 stone handicap. Amazing.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
Mysterious Tartrate Conquers All At Go
I nominate this article title for "Most Surreal Slashdot Title Ever".
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Kevin Bacon's Tartrate number is, of course, 6.
: )
You can't take the sky from me...
You should attend a workshop taught by Yang Yilun. He's a 7-dan Chinese pro who teaches in the U.S. Usually the workshops run all weekend for about $200-250. He is an excellent teacher and has written several books, including one coming out soon from Slate and Shell.
The most impressive thing I've ever seen is at the one workshop I've been to by him. He took all of the students (eighteen), divided us up into pairs (so they can discuss moves with one another), and played us all simultaneously. Then after beating us all (even the pair composed of Keith Arnold, 5 dan and Eagles Song, 4 dan) we cleared off the boards, then he sat down with the first pair, replayed their game from memory, and commented on what they could have done better. Then he replayed the second game from memory... and kept going all the way around the circle.
He's got another workshop coming up in June, I believe. It's in New Jersey. I'm definitely making the trek.
In post-9/11 America, the CIA interrogates YOU!
Read "The Master of Go" by Yasunari Kawabata. It's an amazing novel about not only the culture and play of Go, but also the rise of Western ideals after the fall of Imperial Japan. It won the Nobel Prize for Literature. Read it; you'll like it.
The middle mind speaks!