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8th Grader Suspended for Using 'net send' Command
HRH King Lerxst writes: "The Fort Worth Star-Telegram has an article detailing how a middle school student was suspended for three days for 'hacking.' His hack? Sending a popup message to the other computers in the school...from within the shcool." The 8th grader in question used the "net send" command to send a single word message ("Hey!") to the 80 machines tied to his school's network. How this can be construed as "hacking", I leave up to you.
...because the people in charge (Teachers, parents, school board, etc) don't understand what's going on.
It's just that simple. Whenever someone does something with a computer that they don't understand, it's hacking. A High School friend of mine got accused of 'hacking' by downloading Netscape once.
Fear and ignorance, ignorance and fear...
=Smidge=
One wonders if using writing as a form of punishment could be giving kids the impression that writing is an unpleasant task, which would diminish their desire to spend effort on any future writing tasks.
From the article the teacher was quoted as saying, "Hacking into a system should be highest on the list of tampering violations. I believe the other students are now aware that the district takes this seriously and will not tolerate such misuse of our equipment." In addition to "Rollins told me that students had been using campus computers in unacceptable ways, and he hoped to make an example of Carl."
It looks like to me that the teachers can't/won't secure the computers and decided to throw the book at the first kid to do something that they were able to catch in hopes that it scares the others into submission.
The writer seems to get two important things - that using net send is certainly not hacking, and deeming it so is demonstrative of the school district's lack of understanding of a subject area they purport to teach.
How about emailing the principal of that school and telling him what you think of his actions?
meh.
Sure, but I wonder if paper/detention/whatever is really WARRANTED. A verbal warning should have been MORE than sufficient, considering the incident is so absolutely minor as to be worthless.
Maybe I'm biased, though.. I nearly got suspended for miskeying ctrl-something or another years ago on an old Apple 2 wordprocessor. The thing beeped, the instructor freaked, and I was accused of hacking. I was just lucky that someone with a CLUE caught the situation and defused it before it got all the way to the top and I ended up suspended..
One thing's for sure-- I think the fearmongering amongst the ignorant teachers and administration needs to stop. This has been out of control for a long time..
No, if they are allowed to experiment and do things ANYWHERE that they have not been given specific permission to do, it's called learning. Why should computers be any different?
He learned this command from his father and decided to experiment with it at school. Are educators now in the business of making children afraid to experiment and learn?
Back when I was in elementary school we were encouraged to experiment with computers as long as we followed the guidelines. If we encountered an issue where the guidelines were unclear on, our teacher told us what we did that may proove to be problematic later and the guidelines were updated.
It would be interesting to note if the school has updated their guidelines on this topic and have take the (simple) steps necessary to insure this doesn't happen again, but saying that what this kid did was wrong is borderlining on the dangerous.
Is it any wonder why some people grow up afraid to learn computers? I'd hazard to say maybe we'd do well to have better trained educators and more concise guidelines rather than knee-jerk suspensions and "computer educators" that don't know how to secure their own networks, nor how to handle the children whom the parents put in their care!
Teachers could NOT keep up with the kids in computer classes, which left a whole slew of kids "left behind" per se (thanks Bush).
Maybe it's me, but this sounds to be more of a problem with the teachers (and possibly the local school board) than anything Bush has done...
The federal government somehow gets blame or credit for the condition of public schools, but people forget that public schools are really local institutions. Only about 7% of Elementary and Secondary education funding comes from the Federal government. School policies and curriculums are set at the local and state level; The Federal government can ususally only make recommendations or support specific programs.
If your school's policies are stupid, chances are your local government is the responsible party, not the federal government. The good thing about this, however, is that it's pretty easy for you to go voice your opinion at your local school board meeting. Flying to D.C. to have a chat with the President is a little more difficult.
Funny how you spin a tech guy hired at a grade-school to be GW Bush's downfall.
Like him or not, this is *not* the presidents fault.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin
Actually, I blame the principal, the district AND the administrator! I do alot of volunteer work at my son's school as a technologist. I fix the machines, install network runs, etc. I'm also the president of the PTA that pays the two computer lab assistants.
I think this was like dropping a nuke on a kid with a lemonaide stand because they didn't have a business license!
Yep -the kid did the equivalent of a farting noise in the classroom. That is objectionable behavior - so some disciplinary action is reasonable - but suspension?
Further - this district has NO PUBLISHED POLICY on whether this was appropriate behavior or not! So they use the nuclear option! That's shear nonsense...let the punishment fit the crime. Why not a letter home to the parents, and let them discipline the kid???????
In my kid's district there is a published acceptable computer usage policy, a published discipline policy with a graduated response, and a requirment that teachers will oversee the computer usage. Lastly, parents have to sign documents saying they have reviewed all of the above. So no surprises!
In my mind, not having all of these policies in place puts the district and staff in the guilt column right there along with the kid - Gee - you broke a rule I just made up so I'm throwing you out of school. That doesn't play well with me!
Have you compiled your kernel today??
Dear Mr. Rollins,
_ li eber/7643262.htm
Before continueing, I might want to inform you that the following article has appeared on a major internet website, one visited by tens of thousands of technicians and other professionals a day. You may want to prepare your inbox.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/columnists/dave
As per the content of the article, it may be biased, but I am writing to assure you of the following:
The "net send" command is in no way a 'hacking' tool. "Net" is a command used by windows/windows-users for many network tasks, and "net send" is a communication command which does not adversely affect any machine.
Furthermore, the punishment for this "offense" seems neither fair nor warranted? You may not think that I have any cognisance of the type of things that occur in schools, but I can assure you - as an IT support technician/admin for a school-district - that I know a great deal about it. This problem would have been easily dealt with, and any issues caused by it not warranting such a punishment.
Furthermore, the student - in investigating parts of computing that are obscure to many - seems to be showing promise and intelligence. To attack the natural curiousity of the student is to stifle his natural inclination to learn and investigate. Rather than punishment, you should consider giving the student materials to learn about computing in a way that might be more productive and advanced than "net send."
Certainly I myself did a certain amount of investigating and playing with such commands when I first gained interest in computing. As my teachers promoted my curiousity I eventually found a lucrative career in both computer programming and administration. Had such a punishment been meted to me, it may have impaired the drive which brought me to my current employment.
Please consider that while the commands used may be obscure to many, they are not highly technical nor dangerous in nature. An offensive action taken against the unknown is neither ethical nor mature in nature, and such reactions should be the bane of modern education.
Sincerely,
(my name here)
IT Support Administration
(and yes, I do work in educational IT support. suspension for net send would be laughable in comparison to the other things students try to do or do here)
The way I see it, this is just a symptom of the larger problem: that of non-programmers who literally do not know ANYTHING about computers per se defining "computer literacy" as being able to run a few M$ pointy-clicky apps--because that's all they know how to do.
Now it's not a problem if these people stay in the f-ing typing pool, graphic arts sweatshops, stupid little bookkeeping jobs, or teaching history where they bleeding well belong. It does become a problem when the Beverly Sweeneys of this world get positions of authority which they're fundamentally unqualified to fill, and find themselves feeling threatened by anyone who knows more than themselves--and acting on their feelings of inadequacy with high-handedness.
Having a Beverly Sweeney teaching Integrated Technology Applications because she got a cert or two in running a few pointy-clicky M$ Applications is like hiring someone as a music teacher because they know how to play CDs on their stereo, who then busts students who play an actual musical instrument in class -- because it's not "an approved application". Sheesh!
The control issue is real. Why?
I think it is all the lawyers. When I went to school, things were not as bad. The staff had a lot more options compared to today.
Schools do not teach ethics and citizenship. Afraid they might offend somebody. In fact, most of the problems today boil down to lame procedures designed by lawyers to maintain a high level of "liability managment."
The schools would not have to go through the crap they have to today, if the parents were more involved. Nothing worse than a problem kid with rich, uninvolved parents willing to sue the school when something happens to their kid.
I have 4 kids and stay right on top of what they are doing in school. Takes a lot of time most of my peers are not willing to give. As they get older, the differences are beginning to show.
As an involved parent, I am qualified to say this would not happen with my kid. The suspension is bullshit plain and simple. Schools are supposed to be places where we build new citizens one kid at a time. Giving smart kids the smackdown because the staff is too uninformed to understand their behaviour is sensless.
The schools work for us. They don't often want to admit that, but the truth is they do. With this particular kid, they have just sent a message and shaped a couple of values in his mind that are unacceptable at best, scarring at worst.
In this case, both are at fault. The school being driven by its lawyers and the state instead of its responsibility to society, and the parents for letting this crap stand.
I know the schools have it tough, but if this were my kid, I would be in the office that day, and would stay until the suspension was revoked. Clearly the educators need to get some education themselves, and I would press this point hard.
Nobody wants a lawsuit over something this small, but we don't want our kids becoming compliant drones either.
In my experience, once this is explained to the staff, this sort of thing goes away pretty quickly. When they realize they are going to deal with a parent who knows the rules and the law and cares about their kid, they back off and pester the other kids whose parents don't care.
Another thing about this that burns my ass: I would be happy to work with kids in school for a few years. I have a lot to give, practical experience, and enjoy the subject matter. Plenty of other people I know are in a similar position.
You would think the State government would have programs in place to take advantage of this for technical subject matter, but they don't. Sorry if I offend a teacher or two, but the truth is most grade / high school computer educators really have no clue. I am sure they are fine people, working hard to make the best of the situation they are in, but still it sucks to know my kids could be getting much better...
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