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FBI Can Inspect Bank Records w/o Court Orders
AlexZander writes: "Thankfully, the so-called 'Patriot Act II' was discovered last year and the public outcry that ensued was enough to get the bill tossed out the window. One of the goals of that act, however, has made it into law under the radar of the community at large. However, on December 13th, President Bush signed Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2004 (the relevant section is 374) into law, which among other things, grants the FBI the power to obtain financial information without a court order from a judge. It also expands the definition of 'financial information' to include car dealerships, jewelry stores, insurance companies, and other stretches of the definition of 'financial institution'. Wired News has the story here."
"The best parts about this is that the law prevents the business that gives up the information to the FBI from telling their customer about the request. Oh, that and the new law only requires a "national security letter" from a field agent stating that the information reqested is part of an investigation relevant to national security.
Yikes!"
"Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
--Tom Schulman
It is easy for them to define "investigating for possible terrorist association" as anything they want.
what reason would you have to hide it?
It isn't hidden. There is, however, something called privacy.
The "if you're innocent, you have nothing to hide" argument is a strawman I tire of. It's not about hiding. When I'm in the bathroom, I am not hiding. That doesn't mean I want everyone looking.
Same for my bank account. It's simply nobodys business what's going on there. If the FBI wants to peek, they'd better have a good reason to, and until recently, it was a judges job to decide whether the reason is any good.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
1. Carp about it on a geek forum
2. Ignore it - after all no one really cares how much money you spend on chewing gum from chewinggum.com
3. Find out how your congressperson voted on this issue, and call their office, then write a letter to them about it. When you get the standard form letter back from them, go see them to discuss this issue. If that doesn't get you what you want, use your geek skills to build a community forum site and use that to attract folks who can develop a coordinated campaign to contact congresspeople all over the US to get this law changed.
Democracy can work. If this is really a big deal to you, then invest your time figuring out how it can and should be undone rather than whine about it here.
Respectfully,
Anomaly
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
I'm so sick of hearing "if you are innocent... why do you care?" It's called the 4th amendment - our founding fathers didn't want the government to be able to search us without judicial review - without proving they had SOME case - and without our knowledge.
I'm innocent but I still don't want my rights violated. I don't want to be randomly searched, spied on, etc. I don't want the FBI or anyone looking at my medical records, bank records, etc. And I believe that for any person in the U.S., if the government or FBI didn't like you, they could put together "proof" that could get you locked up for life - not that they need any proof anymore.
If my home was searched, they'd find maps, atlases, sharpies, box cutters, CD-RWs, and a long list of other "terrorist equipment". I have books talking about how to protect your privacy, so I must have *something* to hide. I have books of a highly libertarian slant - I must be plotting to overthrow the government! I have a poster of the empire state building on my wall. The poster is there because I think it's a beautiful building, but the FBI could use it as "proof" that I planned to blow it up.
My financial records show I frequently buy computer equipment - I must by a computer terrorist! I make a cash deduction of $100 about once a week - I must be buying drugs! I wrote a check to a person with a foreign sounding name - he must be a member of my terrorist unit!!
Government abuses have run rampant the last couple of years - anyone who's opinions differer from the government can have their right to travel violated.
There has been NO terrorist activity in the U.S. since 9/11. 9/11 was a horrible tragedy but it sickens me that republicans have turned it into an excuse to create a police state. Let's face it - the terrorists won. The U.S. has lost or is in the process of losing all the freedoms they hated us for.
This is SO educational! -- Kintaro Oe
Don't kid yourself- they still do.
Are you living in the same world as the rest of us?
America used to be diplomatically effective without having to use force. They did so by leading the way with treaties like SALT, SALT II. They were the prime funders of the UN. They were signatories to most international treaties.
Today, America is effective because it has told everyone that YOU ARE WITH US OR AGAINST US. You don't win mindshare that way. You win resentment.
If you don't see what's going on with the EU, the leftist governments in South America, the rampant hostitlity towards America in teh Middle East and Southeast Asia...well, all I can say is you need to play less videogames and look out your window.
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
I just did.
Easy lookup at http://www.senate.gov.
Remind them that election time is just around the corner and you'll be considering his/her reaction to this issue when you hit the voting booth.
I hope so, but as it stands right now they could keep you in the can indefinitely while they investigate, without charges and without access to an attorney -- just because they suspect you.
In my book, that's a violation of the fourth, fifth, sixth and eighth amendments. At least.
Acually what Congress (and a runaway Executive of the same political party) can do is IGNORE the Constitution. Which if you read it (the USC together with the article at the top of this thread) is basically what the Executive (FBI) is already doing.
Yes, I think this is a clear case of a 4th amendment violation, indeed a whole policy intended to VOID and break it, and so clear a violation that it breaks the category. Don't need a court order to go rifling through a citizen's bank accts? Shit then why did we bother having a Constitution at all if its rules against unwarranted searches can be ignored at a whim?
I think the Constitution's Framers knew ALL ABOUT about the possibility of "seditious" forces or "terrorism" or whatever you want to call it: after all they THEMSELVES were armed revolutionaries against their legitimate government. Arguments that "the Constitution isn't a suicide pact" and therefore Mrs. John Asscleft shall be allowed to paw through citizen's private information at will simply because it's expedient is the most breathtakingly cynical perversion of this country's committment to liberty in its history.
I've seen the Constitution violated before, but the perps eventually were called to account. The other branches did their job or at least faked it. The perps didn't always go to jail, but they suffered disgrace and the fear of being caught. Never before -NEVER- have I seen the Constitution dispensed with in broad daylight --simply WAIVED-- with breezy arguments that "everything's changed: that was then, but this is now" and "the Dear Leader needs your civil liberties melted down in order to fight terra."
Change the Constitution? They don't have to change it when they can just use the compliant and ignorant corporate media to convince the public that if the gummint does it, it can't be illegal. They just leave the Constitution's words in place and pretend the meanings have changed. Done deal, and oh yeah you're Un-goddamn-American if you dare protest what they're doing.
Johnny Quest has two Daddies.