Slashdot Mirror
Real Launches New Player, Music Store
kforeman writes "You may have heard Real's
many announcements today, including the release of RealPlayer 10
with vastly improved codecs, as well as our new Music Store. As a
result of the player engine being developed in the Helix
community, we're able to offer the benefits of the new RealAudio
and RealVideo in
in the Helix Player for Linux. We read Slashdot here at Real, especially when the
subject of our company or technology comes up, so we know some of you
may not have liked recent versions of our player. This release
represents a much friendlier direction for us; more options that were
'opt-out' are now 'opt-in'. In developing RealVideo 10,
our codec team has been working closely with the Doom9 community, and
has been posting
updates to that forum (look for references to RV9-EHQ). The tests
that have been performed by that community show RealVideo doing
quite well against the competition." There's a CNET News article discussing the announcements, including the jukebox's ability to play "secure downloads from the iTunes store", for those looking for another point of view.
I'll just stick to RealAlternative, thanks.
Um, have you looked at all the crap iTunes puts to load at startup?
New stripes? I'm just attributing to the prior business decisions of Real.
Real Player went as far to collect your name/dob from web fields.
R. Player gave full stats about your sustem to real.com websites.
Real Downloader gave full download stats to real.com (including filename , size, MD5, time).
And those are just a few I can think of.
Point is a company can be ethical and make money. They CHOSE NOT to be ethical. So I CHOOSE NOT to utilise anything that relates to their service... Player, OR codec.
Regarding the opt-out issues, Real's biggest problem was not so much that most of the items were opt-out, but that they hid the real opt-out items in a scrollable form where the visible options on the top were already unchecked. Unless you paid attention and made sure you scrolled through all the options, you may think you were opting out because everything you could see was unchecked, but there were 9 or 10 more nasty items checked below that.
The takeover issue is another big problem, which neither WMP nor Winamp have. Overall, Real has honestly earned their terrible reputation, and I for one will never trust them. Goodbye, Real.
I was going to take another look at your license agreement to see if it was any less preposterous than the previous one, which basically wanted admin privileges on user's machines so it could shoehorn in all kinds of DRM crap and all the usual garbage. After supplying the usual fake information in order to access the download (following links from the "version 10" announcement on the front page), what came down for OSX was labeled version 9, beta.
You should put the license agreement somewhere obvious on the site so people can inspect it before downloading. And maybe don't have links to version 10 until version 10 is really there?
Glad you're reading slashdot. I'd take careful notes on the comments in here to learn why most slashdotters can't abide Real, and make whatever changes you can make.
-- http://frobnosticate.com
I should note, for reference, that WMA version upgrades, at least until WMA Pro came out, were basically just encoder upgrades, which is why having so many versions of WMA (e.g. 2, 7, 8, 9 non-Pro) doesn't break hardware support.
You might want to give RP10 a try... I can assure you that there is no longer any problem with "chronic takeover of media" any more.
Their player has not always sucked. There was a time when they were the only option for streaming audio over the internet, and considering the available bandwidth and CPU resources they did a pretty dang good job of it. As with any technology, competitors came along, everything got better with time as technologies advanced, and Real slipped a bit. There is still hope though. Don't knock a product before trying. If they say they fixed many of the annoyances and such, and improved the codecs, they may very well not be lying. And for the record, I don't think I've ever had any problems removing a Real player from a MS Windows box, though it's been quite some time since I used MS Windows on my personal machines.
Let's try an install of this new version (10b). I'll document my install for the benefit of slashdot users:
.exe and hit "accept" on the agreement without reading it :)
-Doubleclick the
-Set connection speed - Fair Enough
-5 clicks under "desktop settings" to deselect every additional option for more icons, extra search features, and including a nice "OPT-OUT" with free offers from Real.com. I just want the player and the codec, nothing else.
-Had to close webbrowser windows to continue.
-Install takes about a minute on a fast PC.
-Deselect every filetype that it wants to steal to play. I want it to play realmedia files, nothing else!
-Click "finish".
-Player connects to internet connection to "continue setup"
-Disable addon "Real Internet Toolbar" for IE.
-Asks to create an account with username and password to continue the install.
-Hit cancel to finish install without creating an account/signing in - sets player for "basic" version.
-Finished (when player starts)
So, the install is IDENTICAL to previous versions, so far as I can tell, and that's what turns most people off.
Just install the damn thing without ANY additional options or ANY additional media type playback selected. I do not WANT any "free media toolbars for IE installed". Do NOT prompt me to connect and create an account for a full version - if I had wanted the "pay" version, THAT's what I would've downloaded!
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
iTunes load several dameons that run in the background at all times. I'm not in windows, so I can't check, but I know there is a default 'helper' service as well as an 'ipod' service. On my computer iTunes typically eats up a good 30 megs of ram even when not running.
I just installed v9 yesterday, doh. my nitpick, this really pissed me off, was the real player plugin takes over "rpm" for "realplayer metadata", so I was in konqueror trying to click on an rpm package and instead it tried to load realplayer and then crashed. I tried in mozilla and it shows the helix icon, but doesn't crash. This was on kde-look.org so when I tried to save-target from the link, it wants to save a .php file rather than the rpm I intend to download.
That is really lame. All this hassle for what? that rare occasion I have to have a real plugin installed if I want to see the content? Chances are I'm going to be downloading more rpm packages for redhat rather than viewing real media. I'll probably just opt to not see the content. Seems that wma and mov are working as plugins from mplayer though and thankfully a lot of sites have their stuff offered in 2 or 3 formats.
Real, why did you have picked such a significant extention such as "rpm"?! I think this is a show stopper for me.
There are good media players out there, you just need to know what to look for and where.
Media Player Classic (MPC) is a shining example of a solid, simple player with a good feature set.
Since you're probably interested in being able to play most video formats, you'll want to download Real Alternative and Quicktime Alternative to save you the hassle of installing the invasive Quicktime and Real players. Both QT and Real alternative are codecs rather than full blown players, and allow you to view their respective video formats in MPC.
Top it off with the DivX and XviD codecs, and you should be able to play pretty much anything under the sun with the exception of DVDs.
Unfortunatly I don't know of a free codec that can play DVDs, thanks to the RIAA's work on DeCSS. If you have a registered DVD decoder package, you'll probably be able to use MPC with it's supplied codec.
You can now play all your videos in a single place without sacraficing your privacy.
I hope that helps.
Can't speak for the parent, but with previous versions I'd guess his problems were....
1) System tray icons
2) Popup windows bugging you to go to Real's site
3) Steals associations with every friggin file type
4) Sucks up tons of CPU when not even open
5) Loads crap on bootup
6) Tries to force IE bars, etc.
7) Installs spyware
I've given Real plenty of chances. It's sure not going on any of my machines anymore, no matter how much they claim to have reformed. I just don't trust them anymore. And there are far too many alternatives out there now.
On Windows, Real Player requires four executables running at the same time: realplay.exe, realevent.exe, realsched.exe, rnathchk.exe. Realevent and realplay both try to communicate with servers when started. That's what the comments mean when they say it eats up resources. It's not whining, its the honest truth.
I clicked on the big, orange, "FREE DOWNLOAD" 14 day trial button (god knows why?) and I get through to the very end and I am expected to enter my credit card details, for a FREE trial?
:-) Thanks, guys!
Firstly, I don't know what possessed me to even think of trying your evil software again, but the deed is done - there's no going back.
Secondly, I saw NO mention of having to hand over my credit card number until AFTER I enter all sorts of information you DON'T need to know and that I will NEVER give you.
Finally, in the spirit of forgiveness, I should actually be *thankful* to Real Networks for actually asking for the credit card number because I pressed ALT F4 the moment I saw it. So, you see, Real Networks have saved me from themselves - a fate worse than death
It's not too hard to find - you just need to keep your eye open for the small text without any graphics.
.EXE
It's easier to find than it used to be.
It's kind of stupid really, because the player itself includes BOTH versions and you can activate the "pay" features by using the player software itself to register an account and upgrade.
The only difference is that the website leads you through creating an account and paying for the player to get a registration before downloading the same
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
You clicked the wrong button. Try looking in the upper righthand corner and clicking on Free Realplayer
Simple enough -- make a free version that lacks nifty but not critical features of the pay version.
However, Real does it the other way around -- they add the loathed features even to the pay version. I complained and finally received a refund(!) because there was no way to turn off the bugging in the pay version, asking me to update. I didn't want to update -- I wanted to continue to run the version I had, which I had already paid for.
Real is, if you'll excuse the American, the worst piece of proprietary shit I've ever encountered, bar none. It's intrusive, bloated, buggy, and highly incompatible even with itself (try mixing versions). It makes Microsoft Windows Mediaplayer look good!
Remember Xing? Already 8 years ago or so, they made a streaming mpeg server (for multiple platforms), which actually worked quite well. So well that Real bought it. They took the free player, added their intrusive "features", made it Windows only, and now charge $30 for it. The encoder, they split into two, and charge $250 for each part. The StreamWorks server probably competed too much with their own software, cause it's nowhere to be found.
So much for open standards.
Regards,
--
*Art
well, with realplayer you don't have to enter any registration info on the website to get the free player, and you can cancel out of the registration during setup as setup is actually already really complete at that point. They don't make you very aware of the fact that the registration is voluntary, but just hitting cancel will finish the setup without having to enter bogus data.
Clicked the button in my freedesktop.org KDE/Gnome menu and it worked.
No spam, popups, system tray crap, or anything else in the Linux version. Though they should
Here's the package, by the way, for Fedora Core 1.
Here's the source package
If the files aren't there right now, they will be soon.
Media Player Classic with QT Alternative (and Real Alternative if you need it) should be able to do that without a problem. Then you can get rid of QT too :P
But I shouldn't assume too much. What problems are you having?
If you find that RealPlayer 10 still isn't solving your problems, you've got two options for a fully legal way of giving your end users what they need beside using our consumer edition of RealPlayer:
- RealPlayer Enterprise - This is a paid product which lets you control what features you deploy to your end users. It's not a free product, but you can download a free trial
- Work with us on developing a Win32 version of the Helix Player (currently only for Linux, soon for Solaris). Given that the Helix Player uses Gtk, and there's a Gtk for Win32, it may not be that tough to port. Not an instant gratification solution, but one which gives you maximum control.
It sounds like you're using a free consumer product in an enterprise setting. It should work (which is why I want to know what problems you're having), but it may be that mismatch is where your problems lie.Rob Lanphier
Helix Community Coordinator
RealNetworks
I found a program called "Real Alternative" that plays Real video files on MSWindows. I think I first found it from another Slashdot post. It works well without any of the bad stuff of the official players from Real.
.rpm) .ram .rmvb .rpx .smi .smil) .smi and .smil files only play the first part of a clip. This is a limitation of the current Media Player Classic.
From the installer notes:
---
More information and updates can be found on the following websites:
http://www.freecodecs.com
Now a "Coming Soon. But domains from us" page
http://mirror.edskes.com
Redirects to http://home.hccnet.nl/h.edskes/mirror.htm that has downloads available
Real Alternative will allow you to play RealMedia files. This way you can play RealMedia files without having to install RealPlayer/RealOne Player. You do need a player that is capable of playing RealMedia. The included Media Player Classic supports it and works very well.
Supported:
- RealAudio (.ra
- RealMedia (.rm
- RealText (.rt)
- ReadPix (.rp)
- RealMedia embedded in webpages
---
The player says it is GPL by "Gabest". He has programs at http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli/. He wrote the "Media Player Classic" that RealAlt extends.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
Actually, on my Win2k box here, iTunesHelper.exe is sitting at about 4.8MB, and iPodService.exe is at 3.3MB. It ain't exactly svelte, but it ain't 30 megs either. :)
Then read this:
enough already. I went to real.com and I couldn't find a download link that didn't require an account (creditcard info - cancel within 14 days OR ELSE).
On a hunch I clicked on service (it's your core business, not some cuddly extra!) and there I could download realplayer 10. Of course, a crappy installer which first decompresses files ("preparing to install") which later need to be decompressed, but that's about standard on windows. So the installer finally pops up with a license agreement. Pretty preposterous terms, including "delete this in 120 days" and "we can revoke your license with 14 days notice" bullshit, and that's even disregarding whole sections on DRM and autoupdates. Not very open-sourcy!
Then I have to remove checks from checkboxes because you want to give me a zillion shortcuts (including Free Offers? v.iagra?)..
Then it won't let me unselect all filetypes except real, unless I click advanced.. Sure, that's not pushy AT ALL..
Then a fucking toolbar.. Then I have to creat an account?? WTF?? fake@example.com is already registered, damn it.. Then another ad.
Only NOW do I get the UI of real player itself. And another ad! Close it down, start it again. Another ad (realguide)!
I notice MessageCenter (SPAM) is still there, and enabled by default. Fucking spamware.
MediaPlayerClassic install: download. Run. If I like it, register the filetypes in the options menu (perhaps a bit leet for newbies, but doable).
No bloat. No ads. No built-in spammy shortcuts. No stealthily installed and enabled popup ads. No non-standard confusing and icky looking non-themed widgets. A tenth the size. Just add codecs. Give Mplayerc.exe and a decent codec pack and three lines of instructions to my mom, et voila, even she can install it.
MediaPlayerClassic is GNU GPL. How about real patch it up with some real streaming, release some codec, and ok, make an installer for it (a NON-hijacking one).
The ONLY thing I like about this realplayer is the page with a lot of radio stations (kind of like shoutcast, AHEM).. The thing I don't like is it loading some stupid webpage when I click on a live365 feed (with NO warning).
Even windows media player and iTunes are better behaved than Real, and the open source players beat it hands down for being polite and respectful.
And you sir, lured me into downloading a spammy ad-laden piece of hijacking crap under the pretense that it was finally cleaned up. I'm not calling you a liar, but I was mislead by statements you represented as factual truths, which are not.
That's me (and anyone who listens to me) done installing anything from Real.com for the next five years, unless I hear from 3 independent parties that it doesn't suck anymore.
Sorry about the browser cert thing...it's a little weird right now due to some funky wildcard cert stuff (for *.helixcommunity.org). Some browsers are just fine with it (my Mozilla on Linux never prompts me...YMMV); others aren't (newer versions of IE, from what I understand). We're doing a major site overhaul this month, so we're hoping we can get that fixed up in the process.
I run Linux on all my desktops, so I haven't had much of a chance to play with RealPlayer 10 to answer your questions vis a vis opt out vs opt in. My understanding is that one of the big perks is being able to kill all background processes dead, and only having to answer the MIME-type question once.
Rob Lanphier
Helix Community Coordinator
RealNetworks
Quit your bitching ...
It's FREE!
If you don't want to run RealPlayer run HELIXPLAYER.
It's Open Source and runs on Linux!
In the event that you read ANY of the comments above, you would know the problems with Real Player and they are not "bug fixing and performance optimizations".
Just to summarize, the problems are:
1) recurring greedy takeover of media types
2) tray icon in my face all the time (I have new message? Please)
3) hidden opt-out options in install (how can you do this in good conscience. This is so evil and sleazy that it makes people HATE you. Understand?)
4) links, toolbars, icons, installed all over the freakin' place
Fix *THESE* problems, and THEN we can talk about how your software actually performs. Until then, It's "Real Alternative" for me. You can learn a lot from them.
(you can't install it on more than 2 machines?)
(you can't call the plugins via, say, mplayer?)
(DRM, yummy!)
WTF?
Note: you can't disable it: only change the frequency
No thank you.. I'll pass!
Ok, so im willing to give RealNetworks a chance. Heres my take on Helix.
;))
I downloaded and installed the rpm with no problem.
Clicking Applications->Sound and Video shows an icon in the expected place (a lot of programs dont bother to put icons in the gnome/kde menu).
Clicking the icon brings up the Helix Player almost instantly. I must admit, it doesnt *look* like Real Player, which is definitely a Good Thing(tm).
The interface is clean.
Help->Contents doesnt work, neither does Help->Search or Help->Accelerators. (But who actually asks for help in linux eh?
Im kinda doubting that there is any spyware in the program, since the source code is available. But if someone else could shed some light on this, it'd of course be helpful.
So, jokes aside Helix Player works and works as i'd expect a music player to work. A *HUGE* improvement from the old Real bloatplayer.
I work for RealNetworks, and I am the first to admit RealPlayer is not my favorite media player. For video, Media Player Classic (MPC) is, and yes, I use MPC to play my RV9-EHQ aka RV10 content.
Previous RealPlayers have been pretty impolite to put it mildly, and along with so many other computer users, I have been ticked off by its behaviour in many ways. It has been possible to make it well mannered, but it has included being forced to delete certain files to prevent that annoying Message Center. However, it has not been spyware in a long time, even though one old player did send back some usage information. That's long gone, but it's hard to be forgiven for that mistake.
Considering how past players have created such a bad reputation, this post is probably futile, but anyway... Thanks to those few positive posts though, especially for the Linux and OS X players. It is nice to see someone taking the time to give it a another chance.
This RealPlayer 10 is better than before, it is fast, small, and does not run +10MB services in the background, like one well known example, name withheld. However, this post is not really about performance, even though a lot could be said about improvements in this area. More importantly in this discussion, it is also better in terms of its behaviour, albeit less better than me, many of my co-workers, and all of you, had hoped for.
Here's what you need to do when installing:
So to summarize, a few clicks are needed to opt-out, you have to "sign in" the first time. Yes, somewhat annoying, but that's about it. It could have been better, but compared to many other examples, it's not that terrible. Since it has been so very bad in the past though, it clearly should have changed more to make a shining example, but since it is RealNetworks' main vehicle for generating revenue, there is a lot of nervousness about changing things too quickly.
Download the free RealPlayer 10 Beta here, with no re-direction or sales tricks:
http://www.real.com/freeplayer/?rppr=slashdot
And you can find me the forum below with more information about all the gory technical details about what's new with the Real 10 Platform, including RV 10, and RA 10 (AAC!):
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid= 68245