Major New TiVo Service Offerings

I may be ignorant by Saven+Marek · 2004-01-08 23:19 · Score: 4, Interesting

> And finally there's XM Radio for TiVo."

Is there a Tivo like device for normal FM or AM radio? I enjoy a few programmes on radio but not too many, and it would be a benefit to record these simply.

I guess I could use my PC for it but it would be more convenient to have a Tivo like option

mac desktops, dare to be nude

Re:I may be ignorant by davejenkins · 2004-01-08 23:27 · Score: 3, Funny

Is there a Tivo like device for normal FM or AM radio? I enjoy a few programmes on radio but not too many, and it would be a benefit to record these simply.

Yes. It`s called a "cassette tape recorder", and records the analog signals on small plastic "cassettes" that can be stored, transferred, or "dubbed" onto other cassettes.

Many units are integrated-- both radio and cassette "deck" into a single unit-- often refered to as a "boombox", for unkown reasons.

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davejenkins.com |
Re:I may be ignorant by angusr · 2004-01-08 23:49 · Score: 3, Informative

Well, there is... TiVo. I don't know about your particular area, but in the UK most cable, satellite or digital terrestrial services transmit several radio channels in spare bandwidth. Not all of them have full program details provided by Tribune Media (TiVo's data provider), but certainly the major national ones do and so TiVo can record from them as normal.
I use this all the time to record from BBC 7.
Now, if only some nice hardware manufacturer would please get round to releasing a UK series 2 TiVo, or preferably a DVD-/+R TiVo...
Re:I may be ignorant by cra · 2004-01-09 00:48 · Score: 2, Informative

As davejenkins pointed out (although I think he mean to be sarcastic) there are the good (?) and (definately) old tapes. Ten years abou I had a stereo rach with twin tapes and "all the goodies" including a timer to turn on my radio to wake me up. if I pushed the standard buttons REC+Play while the thing was off, it would stat recording the radio program when the timer turned on the radio. Very convenient in the cases where I wanted to tape something while I was at school, or at night while I was sleeping. (I just turned down the sound to avoid being waken up.)

I still have it actually, although I have stopped listening to radio very much. It was produced by JVC, by the way.

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This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for higher security.
Re:I may be ignorant by visgoth · 2004-01-09 01:25 · Score: 3, Informative

the terms "boomboxes" and ghetto blasters" were started during this period to describe the "noise" that emanated from portable stereo cassette recorders, though the sound quality on some rivalled that of home stereo systems.
-The Boombox Museum

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My patience is infinite, my time is not.
Re:I may be ignorant by fyonn · 2004-01-09 01:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

talking about UK tivo's, are we due to see any more tivo's in the UK. I've got a thompson tivo as do half a dizen people I know but they aren't available any mroe and I've heard nothing about newer models with new features. sure there is sky+ but I've heard that it's not very good and of course, you've got to pay for sky which I don't want.

I'd love to see a new uk spec tivo with dual freeview tuners (maybe even three), bigger HD's, ethernet port, rendevous support (tivo claim to support it) and lots of new features.

does anyone know what tivo's plans as regards the UK are?

almost everyone I know who owns a tivo, owns one because they've seen how great mine is. I know they didn't sell that well in the UK but i think that was a marketting problem rather than the market not wanting it. I guess it's just a hard product to advertise. people need to use them to find out ho amazing they are.

dave
Re:I may be ignorant by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-09 05:20 · Score: 2, Informative

If you have a mac, you could try Griffin's Radio Shark:

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/radiosha rk/index.html

Just What I Need by dcw3 · 2004-01-08 23:22 · Score: 2, Funny

Now I can spend more hours sitting on my ass drinking coffee (gotta watch out for that Type-2 diabetes ya know), watching the Simpsons over wireless.

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Just another day in Paradise

HD signal by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-08 23:26 · Score: 5, Interesting

I'm not up on the current situation, but isn't the whole point of HD being undercut by broadcasters taking advantage of digital broadcasting to cramm 6 channels into the space of one, thus delivering a very inferior image. I notice this on my non-HD DISHnetwork system, especially in fast motion scenes. The quality is more consistant than what I got over antenae (and a lot more channels), but heavy compression makes the images far more blurry than DVD on the same TV. It makes me worry HD sets won't solve anything except make DVD viewing better.

So, when they say HD-PVR, what kind of compression are we talking about?

Re:HD signal by the_2nd_coming · 2004-01-09 00:52 · Score: 2, Informative

yes and no...Broadcasters have realized that it is better to offer day time shows and the news in normal def and offer 6 sub channels over the signal and on special events, offer one channel of HD things like foot ball, prime time television dramas, etc.

who the hell wants or needs Oprah in high def?

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I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Re:HD signal by Zathrus · 2004-01-09 02:27 · Score: 4, Informative

I'm not up on the current situation, but isn't the whole point of HD being undercut by broadcasters taking advantage of digital broadcasting to cramm 6 channels into the space of one, thus delivering a very inferior image

Aiieeee!

No, you're quite thoroughly confused. But that's because the ATSC standard is confusing.

ATSC (Advanced Television Systems Committee) replaces the current NTSC (National ...) standard. It has 18 different modes, ranging from 480i (480 lines of vertical resolution, interlaced) to 720p and 1080i (p = progressive/non-interlaced; which is better depends on what you need. The 1080i has a higher resolution, but 720p is better for fast moving action). The maximum broadcast rate is 21 Mbps, which you can use for one program or multiple programs. The bitstream is MPEG2 encoded with Dolby Digital (aka AC3 or DD) audio. Note that DD is a requirement -- no other sound encodings are allowed by the spec. For reference, DVDs are MPEG2 encoded video with a variety of audio options (dolby digital is required, but DTS is on many disks as well; DTS is usually recorded at a higher bitrate, so some people prefer it).

All of that said, how much they can fit into a single "channel" depends on how much compression is used. Thus far nobody has really tried the multiple channels on one station gambit, although it is allowed. Even if it is done, odds are that you'll have a much better picture than what you get off cable (digital or analog) or either of the sat systems (although DirecTV is allegedly going to change this -- with their new sats going up later this year they'll have tons of bandwidth, and there are rumors that they'll bump picture quality back up to mid-90s levels). Realistically, both cable and sat systems broadcast their SD (standard def) programs at sub VCR quality nowadays -- roughly 240i. Yes, it really is that piss poor. On small sets you generally don't notice. On big ones you do. The digital broadcasts are cleaner (less static, no ghosting, etc) than the analog ones, but are prone to macro blocking if the bitrate is too low.

Broadcasting in 480i or 480p is generally considered "DTV" (digital TV). Broadcasting in 720p or 1080i is considered HDTV (High Def TV). True HDTV is considerably more detailed and clear than anything you'll get out of current generation DVD players (the next generation HD DVD will be another story of course).

So, when they say HD-PVR, what kind of compression are we talking about?

Whatever the broadcaster has done. The HD DirecTiVo will do no compression of its own -- it simply writes the bitstreams directly to disk.
Re:HD signal by pyser · 2004-01-09 04:39 · Score: 2, Interesting

I work for a CBS-owned TV station. Last spring we broadcast the NCAA basketball tournament, and on several evenings we carried four games simultaneously in standard-def on our DTV channel. We were one of the few stations in the country that had the equipment and expertise to pull it off. You'll be seeing more of that sort of thing in the near future, because it's possible to make more money selling ads on 4 program streams than on one (hidef) stream.
Re:HD signal by NanoGator · 2004-01-09 05:12 · Score: 2, Funny

"who the hell wants or needs Oprah in high def?"

Well I had to look at SOMETHING to satisfy my craving for Mars pictures.

--
"Derp de derp."

Interesting by A1an+Cox · 2004-01-08 23:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

TiVo's software and subscription service is at the heart of its digital video recorders, which can store television shows on a hard drive and pause live broadcasts. The company has been facing competition from Sonicblue's ReplayTV set-top box, Microsoft's UltimateTV service for satellite networks and other developing DVR technologies.

However, the announcements at CES should help to distinguish TiVo from rivals while also planting the company in the middle of another new trend: creating a hub for home entertainment. Earlier at CES, start-up Moxi Digital announced its software platform that will enable set-top boxes to become a hub of this sort. And software giant Microsoft announced similar plans Monday.

TiVo's plans are not as ambitious because they don't include making content available throughout the home. But that's partly by design. The company's new idea involves a push toward a more comprehensive product, something analysts have said TiVo lacked.

XM Radio stream ripping by krymsin01 · 2004-01-08 23:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

The combined service will allow XM Radio subscribers to connect their PC Radio device to the home network and then access and publish their music on their TiVo Series2 DVR.

Well, I don't know, but that sounds like making copies of songs that you don't have the right to copy... Then again, is it illegal to make tapes from the radio? Wonder what the RIAA thinks...

If it rips the songs from the stream with correct tags and the appropriate filenames, I can see how some people would find feature desirable. But, you'd have to pay the Tivo initial hardware costs, plus the montly charges for both tivo and XM radio... and considering I can do the same thing for free with a shoutcast server and streamripper, I don't think this is going to sway me over to buying a tivo...

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stuff

Re:XM Radio stream ripping by TellarHK · 2004-01-09 00:00 · Score: 4, Interesting

The thing with the XM PCR device is that there's never a digital stream of audio going through the USB port it uses for a connection to the computer. What the XM PCR does, is simply connect to the PC for control purposes then does output using a standard headphone jack. You wouldn't need to do anything special in the slightest to get the PCR to record songs on the PC, just copy the stream info tags (which are unfortunately limited to 16 characters, at least on my SkyFi unit) and start capturing a line-in.

However, the stream is a compressed one from orbit, so you might wind up with a not-so-pure recording when you encode it again for playback on a device.

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My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Re:XM Radio stream ripping by Didion+Sprague · 2004-01-09 00:35 · Score: 2, Informative

There are mods with a digital out. It's no big deal to add.
Check out: http://www.xmfan.com for info on the XMPCR digital mods.

Re:Early Take by krymsin01 · 2004-01-08 23:31 · Score: 4, Informative

From their website:

Accessing "TiVoToGo" requires a TiVo Content Security Key and TiVo-enabled versions of the Sonic Solution (NASDAQ: SNIC) MyDVD(R) and CinePlayer(TM) applications.

Sounds like DRM to me...

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stuff

Service Model ascention by davejenkins · 2004-01-08 23:32 · Score: 4, Insightful

Is this evidence of the ascention of the "service" model over the "product" model for business? In other words, it seems that TiVo and others are realizing there is far more revenue to be had in providing a wide range of services rather than trying to get rich at $199 a peice for the hardware and a 1-year subscription.

Certainly-- if the loss of advertising revenue because of TiVo didn`t scare the cable companies, this new angle should: it is aimed directly at their throats (providing end-services to the customer). If TiVo succeeds, then cable will be relegated to a simple provider of digital feed-- a commodity that may come via cable, dish, or TVoIP. If I worked at TimeWarnerAOLComcast, I would be worried.

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davejenkins.com |

Re:Service Model ascention by MrSubtle · 2004-01-09 00:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

I wouldn't be worried at all if I were a cable TV company. All that TiVos, home networks, and portable players do is let you watch your cable TV in more and better ways.That means more hours of TV delivered per household per day, more ad impressions per day, and more value for the feed. How could that be bad?
Because people could copy/pirate the feed? No. If somoene wants to seriously pirate a movie they can go down to the store, buy a DVD and they are home free. If they want to pirate a TV signal they can just pump it into an A/D converter and out it goes. All these stupid restrictions and DRM garbage do is keep regular folks from doing useful and legitimate things with their feeds, and it makes me pretty mad!
Because TV programmers like to control when people watch what? I know that the programmers love the idea of controlling what times people see programs, but it's not their call. I want to see thigns when I want to see them. It's not their call and it shouldn't be. They are making content, not running my life...are they?
If I were working for Comcast I would be giving away a TiVo with home networking to every customer right out of the box, and banish all DRM. A high value product like that means higher revenues. It just means looking at the market a little differently.
Change is good! Embrace it, don't fear it!
--Brian

How about a new anti-NBC feature by bwalling · 2004-01-08 23:37 · Score: 5, Interesting

NBC has found a nifty way to defeat Tivo - they change their shows to run from 8:00 to 8:31 (preventing you from recording an 8:30 show on another channel) or from 9:59 to 11:00 (preventing you from recording a 9:00 to 10:00 show on another channel). They debuted this on Thursday nights, but it has moved across their lineup now. Basically, I just watch less of NBC now, but if other channels start doing this, the Tivo won't work well unless I just record from one channel per night.

I'd love an update from Tivo that would allow me to side step this by setting a recording to start one minute late. Currently, you can have it start early and end late, but you can't make it start late, therefore it just won't record the program unless you do it manually.

Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature by silas_moeckel · 2004-01-09 00:27 · Score: 2, Informative

Funny topic considering third gen direct tivos (the HD ones) have 4 tuners 2 sat and 2 OTA perfect for that HDTV NBC feed.

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No sir I dont like it.
Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature by GeorgeH · 2004-01-09 01:50 · Score: 3, Informative

NBC has been doing this for quite a while, well before TiVo came out. The recent change wasn't with the shows, but with their guide data to reflect the reality of the situation. They do this to keep people watching NBC once they start.

Before the guide data was fixed, shows would get cut off because of NBC's screwy primetime timing. TiVo simply codifies the desired result: watching NBC because you (or your TiVo) started watching it.

NBC is an investor in TiVo (which is why you see so many "Thumbs Up To Record" widgets on ads for their shows) so it would seem dumb for them to try and fight it. Not that I would base my argument on the logic of the entertainment industry...

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Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature by 777333ddd · 2004-01-09 03:05 · Score: 2, Informative

The DirecTV receivers with TiVo includes TWO tuners so this is not a problem at all for those models. It's a really nice feature of these receivers. Not sure why only DirecTV customers can use them. d
Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature by whyde · 2004-01-09 03:53 · Score: 2, Interesting

Ted Turner originated this idea back when TBS started broadcasting the starts of every show at 5 minutes past the hour. The thinking was that during most network content's first commercial break, people flipped around. TBS was the only network which showed the beginning of a new show during that window of opportunity.

And, it also made it difficult to get back away from TBS since at the end of a show, you have just missed the beginnings of all other network's programs because you wanted to watch the end of the TBS program.
Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-09 06:38 · Score: 2, Informative

Comcast has this already...I just got a PVR/cable box that has two tuners...so you can record two programs while watching a recorded one, or watch one program while you're recording it plus recording another program. It works pretty well, though not as well as TiVo, but they say you cannot record Video-On-Demand using it.

I use my TiVo with digital cable, and it seems to work out ok, though its true you must tune to the one channel while recording it, or watch something you've already recorded while you're recording something else.
Re:How about a new anti-NBC feature by wizzy99 · 2004-01-09 09:51 · Score: 2, Informative

If you have shell access to your tivo, check out this thread for a script that allows you to do negative padding. I use it to start certain recordings late/end them early.

Leaving TiVo by maroberts · 2004-01-08 23:38 · Score: 3, Interesting

I have a TiVo but suspect that I will be discontinuing with their service sometime this year. Its not because I dislike my TiVo either; its given good service, but the times they are a changin'

The reason I'm migrating is because I suspect that MythTv and similar Open source projects may offer me the same functionality just for the cost of my net connection

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Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon

Re:Leaving TiVo by BigHungryJoe · 2004-01-09 00:01 · Score: 2, Insightful

Does MythTV have anything like the Home Media Option? I'm pretty excited about the DVD burning potential there.

As to the cost of TiVo, yes that does bother me. In particular, the fact that a lifetime subscription is only good for the life of the particular TiVo for which you bought it. In my experience, TiVo's just aren't durable enough to ever merit the purchase of the lifetime subscription. That makes MythTV most appealing to me.
Re:Leaving TiVo by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-09 00:30 · Score: 5, Informative

Does MythTV have anything like the Home Media Option? I'm pretty excited about the DVD burning potential there.
MythTV is TiVo on steroids. It's not for newbies though so I won't even pretend to suggest your dear Aunt Ida can go install her own without spending 8 hours of your time setting it up. For those of us who like working on fun projects with Linux though it's a blast. This weekend I'll be building my new MythTV backend server with dual Hauppauge PVR 250 cards, a 3ware 8506-4lp SATA raid controller, and four 200GB Maxtor (quiet fluid dynamic bearings) SATA drives. I haven't decided whether to go with RAID-5 or RAID-0 yet so I'll have somewhere between 600GB and 800GB of space for recordings. At 2200bps and 480x480 resolution my testing with the PVR-250 has given me files about 1.2GB/hour. I may crank it up to 3300bps to get around 1.6GB/hour and deal with that for improved mpeg-2 quality.
Anyway, if you're not interesting in Linux projects stick with a TiVo. MythTV has a DVD player (and ripper) modules, MythMusic for playing mp3, ogg, flac, etc. as well as ripping CDs to ogg, mp3, or flac format, MythWeather gets weather channel maps for your area and displays the weather forecast, MythGame interfaces to MAME under Linux to play games, MythVideo provides a nice interface for playing DivX or other movie files and ties into IMDB to download cover art for movies it can recognize by title (i.e. if you have a waterboy divx file it'll search for it on IMDB and prompt you if what it found is correct, then from then on it'll associate cover art with that file and a summary and synopsis. It's quite nice. Oh yea, and remote real-time scheduling and control over your recordings (delete, browse, etc.) via mythweb. Don't take my word for it, just go to www.mythtv.org and check it out. It is by far the best open source PVR at the moment and is very mature.
Re:Leaving TiVo by cuban321 · 2004-01-09 01:54 · Score: 2, Informative

Yes. It works with all digital cable, satellite, standard cable and even just local channels. It uses XMLTV to interface with I believe TVGUIDE (In the states).

TivoToGo? by ptomblin · 2004-01-08 23:39 · Score: 3, Interesting

There are already third party applications that let you take TiVo "streams" and watch them on your PC or burn them to DVD - I'm on the verge of buying a TiVoNet card for this very purpose. Does anybody know if this new service is going to make TiVo lock out those free applications?

--
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!

Perhaps a new method for advertisment supported TV by ZombieEngineer · 2004-01-08 23:58 · Score: 5, Interesting

I am probably going to be branded a troll for this but...

A lot of TV programs are supported by advertisments (no brainer), the other option is a hideously high (relatively) subscription cost for an advert free video stream. With the latest developments with video recording it forces a change in the business model for the media industry.

If we assume that adverts are required to support our favourite programs (a necessary evil), is there a way to have our recording devices to select our prefered category of advertising?, eg: we prefer to see adds for tech gadgets over medical products over personal injury lawyers.

The selection of the order for the adverts could be done using a statistical method (show four random categories, ask the user to chose the most prefered and least prefered advert categories, repeat 20 times).

This will result in better product placement to people who are willing to consider your product. Hence a 25 year old will never see a Fixodent (denture glue) advert because his recorder will steer away from those adverts, the current alternative is the advert is simply totally ignored by the viewer and does nothing but increase the resentment of adverts.

ZombieEngineer

Re:What is TiVo? by MGDruss · 2004-01-09 00:07 · Score: 2, Informative

No, I'm in the UK and have got one. Wireless networked it up to my broadband connection as well, and installed TivoWeb so I can control it from work (although can't watch any of the programs). It's very good, but didn't really catch on in the UK. I don't think you can buy it new any more, but you can pick up some second hand ones on eBay.

Wake up Tivo by Sandman1971 · 2004-01-09 00:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's time for Tivo to wake up. Hey Tivo.. what about releasing your sweet products in Canada so we Canadian geeks can enjoy your fine stuff! There's a high enough demand up here! It's time to stopp sitting on your brains and release Tivo in Canada!

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It's better to burn out than to fade away

Re:Wake up Tivo by ThePretender · 2004-01-09 01:14 · Score: 2

insert obligatory mad cow, South Park, and/or 'Canadian Bacon' reference here. :-) Just kidding, we love ya Canada and I think you deserve Tivo too.
Re:Wake up Tivo by iantri · 2004-01-09 01:24 · Score: 2

For Canadians who want TiVo like service, MythTV works up here. It pulls listings from XMLTV which supports Canada.
Now my problem is to get it to work for my antenna AND my C-BAND satellite...

Re:Early Take by AKnightCowboy · 2004-01-09 00:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

Well, a very rare first take. I was wondering about Tivo's Subscription service vs. The others. I know I believe, And they are here. I suspect Google and Tivo to crush the competion like nothing ever seen before.

How quaint. TiVo is trying to finally do stuff to catch up to MythTV. Until they come out with a software update that removes the DRM entirely I won't be buying one though. What I record and how I archive my recordings is my business, not TiVo's. I support products that don't restrict your access to your recordings.

It's perfectly legal by Ath · 2004-01-09 00:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

There is a legal concept called "fair use". Just as your can use a VCR to record your favorite tv show, you have the same right to do this with radio. The US Supreme Court has continually reinforced this right of individuals over copyright restrictions.

The problem is that the media companies want to 1) put barriers up to prevent this fair use and 2) create an atmosphere where people actually believe it is illegal and that there is no fair use right.

It looks like they are succeeding for the average user. For the rest of us, the media companies can go screw themselves. I will copy my DVDs for backup, strip the encryption off so I can watch them under non-authorized media players and refuse to purchase any medium where these things aren't possible.

What pisses me off ... by ubrgeek · 2004-01-09 00:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

... is that, if I read the PR release correctly, the HD version is only for DirectTV. Tivo promised us one last year (in fact the promise may have been made at last year's CES, as I seem to recall it happening in January 2003) but never delivered. I can't take advantage of the (meager) HDTV offering Comcast sells because the Tivo can't capture HDTV broadcasts.

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Bark less. Wag more.

Why Pay for TiVO or wait? by I-R-Baboon · 2004-01-09 00:39 · Score: 2, Informative

When there are lots of free alternatives out there which use Linux and bring you all the features of your PC such as DVD burners and internet access and RAID arrays of 120GB HDs for plenty of recording. (Damn Discovery Science Channel and History International and...)

I personally feel TiVO is a dead company as it's idea was great but can be offered with nearly as many options and more if you are Code/Script inclined. So look for cheap 400Mhz system to start on and enjoy personalized TV in most countries.

Translation for the Technically Challenged(MBA): Liquidate TIVO from your portfolio.

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-1 Overrated (Too many big words for me to comprehend)

Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait? by entrigant · 2004-01-09 01:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

So because the code/script inclined can produce a home built system with slightly less polish then tivo, their entire business model is flawed and they are a dead company? Interesting reasoning to say the least... You even go on to give financial advice based on this assumption. God help those that take it to heart.
Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait? by dreamchaser · 2004-01-09 01:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

Exactly. It was a bit like saying 'OMG, did you know there are kits out there that people can build cars with??? Liquidate GM!
Re:Why Pay for TiVO or wait? by dreamchaser · 2004-01-09 01:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

Oh you mean if I download an Open Source Tivo alternative, the project team will buy me the computer and TV card to run it on? Neat! I'm going to grab MythTV right now!!

Think a little next time :)

I also didn't say that OSS PVR's were a bad idea, just that they were not a threat to the business model.

DirecTiVo by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-09 00:55 · Score: 5, Informative

Buyer beware.

The TiVo intergrated with DirecTV receivers cannot be used in a HMO confguration. I didn't find this out until after I signed a contract. :(

Fucking USB port isn't even powered. :(

Re:DirecTiVo by cornfed · 2004-01-09 02:55 · Score: 2, Interesting

Does anyone have any insight into whether or not DirecTV will finally change their policy on this?

I use DirecTV and have a series 1 TiVo, but it's a pain that all these great features are coming down the pike but none of them are available for the likes of me. All TiVo would need to do is partner with another sattelite provider or my local cable company and I would likely jump ship (just in case anyone from DirecTV is reading this).

Re:What is TiVo? by MGDruss · 2004-01-09 00:56 · Score: 2, Informative

TiVo is better than a DVD recorder, but there is also Sky+ as an option. Here's a good article describing the pros & cons http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/article.php3?story_ id=1256&section=Reviews&slashSess=61591921eb04d744 56a7cec2784f01d2 The main feature that I really like (and you get with Sky+ as well) is that it 'knows' what's on TV. Just a few clicks and it will record all the episodes of your favourite program. Also, it records other things that it thinks you might like.

Fun technology but by 3lb4rt0 · 2004-01-09 00:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

with the low quality content of broadcast media why buy one?

I'll just stick to my home cinema and dvd collection for now.

TiVo viability? by skidoo2 · 2004-01-09 01:37 · Score: 5, Interesting

NOTE: This is not intended to be a troll or a TiVo slam! I'm sincerely interested in /. opinion.

There are two clear (and in my opinion superior) alternatives to TiVo currently creeping into TiVo's market share:

1. In the less-features-but-easier-to-use department, cable companies (such as mine) are offering a service they're calling "TV On Demand." With my digital cable remote (and no phone connection, and no extra service charge) I can play many shows from the recent lineup at will. And pause them, rewind them, fast forward, etc. And of course my digital cable comes with a much faster, cleaner program guide user interface. Now the downside is that the guide is somewhat lacking in features, as compared to TiVo's offering. I can't search it and it doesn't have any intelligence for making suggestions or auto-scheduling.

2. Which brings me to the second alternative. I also have an ATI AIW 9600 Pro TV tuner card in a PC. This PC is hooked to my TV. I run myHTPC for the guide/scheduling/recording features, an ATI's new Easylook UI for actual TV viewing. The two work together seemlessly. This gives me *all* the features of TiVo (except season passes, big whoop), plus a whole lot more. And I don't pay a monthly service charge.

Which brings me to my question: isn't TiVo just a niche product that really should only be used by folks with an antenna feed or analog cable feed who don't have the savvy to set up a PC next to their TV? Isn't its current success due largely to clever marketing and a small window of market opportunity that they've now artificially prolonged? That is, I think there was an argument for TiVo back when it was introduced, but isn't that argument substantially weaker today?

Re:TiVo viability? by Violet+Null · 2004-01-09 02:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

NOTE: This is not intended to be a troll or a TiVo slam! I'm sincerely interested in /. opinion.

Then why didn't you read the dozens of other posts in any given TiVo article where someone asks the same questions/makes the same point?

But, whatever:

#1: Cable PVR. Sure. If you have cable, and your cable company offers this (Comcast in Chicago doesn't, for instance). And, if it's actually streaming on demand, then it's likely you can't see any given show that may have just been broadcast -- it's probably limited to the popular ones. No saving stuff for later, no odd shows.

Finally, on the note of cable, it's gotten a wee bit expensive. I pay less now for DirecTV than I did for Comcast, and that's including the TiVo subscription rate and more pay channels.

#2: Computer. Sure. Let's say the computer cost $500. (You could, of course, use a less powerful computer, but then you need a video card that does hardware encoding, and those are more expensive. So.) TiVo costs $250. You could say, "But the computer can have a bigger HD", but the TiVo could too -- if you're the kind of person who wouldn't blink at setting up a computer as a PVR, then installing a hard drive shouldn't be a problem either.

And, of course, there's the computer setup time. Now, personally, I think playing around with MythTV and the like is fun. But I don't confuse fun with popular or cost effective. I don't mind spending a day configuring MythTV to do what I want, but I think I'm in a small subset of the population on that one.
Re:TiVo viability? by WebGangsta · 2004-01-09 02:07 · Score: 2, Informative

The "TV On Demand" feature of my cable company has it's good points and it's bad points.
Good: it's usually free, and has a fairly decent selection of programs that I am interested in watching. Last season's Curb Your Enthusiasm and Sopranos are examples. Not a huge selection, but enough for me.
Bad: extremely awkward controls, massive pixelation; often ends up that if you even nudge the remote you'll end up back at some random menu that you'll have to go and restart the program from the beginning and fast-forward to where you left off; pause, fast-forward, and rewind don't work very smoothly.
Nutshell: if you're willing to *watch* instead of *control*, then you'll be mostly happy.
Re:TiVo viability? by Mr.+Sharumpe · 2004-01-09 08:42 · Score: 2

This gives me *all* the features of TiVo (except season passes, big whoop), plus a whole lot more. And I don't pay a monthly service charge.

IMO, the season pass is the single biggest reason to HAVE a TiVo. I don't know what time most of my shows are on, and I don't really care. I know that CSI is on Thursday, so after Thursday I can watch it. Sure, I could watch it live, but I don't HAVE to. And I don't have to know, or care, what time the show is on. Perfect. Plus, I only pay an extra $5 a month for the service -- well worth it, IMO.

How about this -- your favorite shows get bumped for time around the Oscars, the SuperBowl, etc. If you've got your VCR or PVR set for 10:00, you're out of luck. With TiVo, it doesn't matter.

Which brings me to my question: isn't TiVo just a niche product that really should only be used by folks with an antenna feed or analog cable feed who don't have the savvy to set up a PC next to their TV? Isn't its current success due largely to clever marketing and a small window of market opportunity that they've now artificially prolonged? That is, I think there was an argument for TiVo back when it was introduced, but isn't that argument substantially weaker today?

I don't think it's just for people who don't know how to set up their computer to do the same thing. It's for people who don't *want* to have to mess with it.

TiVo is slow as a dog sometimes, no doubt. But is truly a consumer-level device, something that doesn't require me to do ANYthing to keep it running. If I want to mess with a computer, I'll do so. But if my computer causes me to miss CSI, I don't want anything to do with it. That's really the key. Your computer software will get in your way from time to time -- that is the nature of software on a personal computer. Whether it's bugs, upgrades, configuration... whatever. The goal of a consumer-level device/service is to be as invisible as possible.

I think that, if anything, the TiVo is more relevant today than it was a few years ago. Everyone wants a PVR these days. Dish Network, Comcast and DirecTV all offer their customers a PVR option. A few years ago, they were just for the nerds and early-adopters. Now they're for my mom and your grandpa.

Mr. Sharumpe

--
-- The above comments are just my opinion. If you are going to flame me, save your time. I am fireproof.

Re:Why Pay for oil changes? by Violet+Null · 2004-01-09 01:48 · Score: 4, Insightful

I suspect your theory is correct. Why, just today, I was thinking to myself, "I bet all of those oil-change places are out of business."

I mean, really. An oil change. Anyone can do one, for 1/4 to 1/2 the price that a Jiffy Lube or a gas station will charge you. How can those places stay in business with a model like that? It's unheard of.

Confident in my intellectual superiority, I drove to work, only to pass plenty of oil change places still doing a fine business. I was saddened and dismayed to find out that such thinking is, in fact, totally wrong. Shocking as it is, it seems people are willing to pay for convenience.

You're in "luck." by raygundan · 2004-01-09 02:35 · Score: 4, Informative

DirecTV Tivos don't have to worry about any of this stuff. Currently, they're a major version behind in software, don't support HMO, and have their USB ports (which is where you'd plug a network adapter) disabled.

DirecTV is PARANOID that opening up their tivos like all the rest of them is going to result in rampant digital copying, and networks packing up and leaving.

So you're not missing out on anything-- DirecTV won't have it anyway. Just the standalone tivos.

Another TiVo service offering... by rkischuk · 2004-01-09 03:04 · Score: 2, Funny

......suing your competition into oblivion using moronically awarded patents

--
Seen any BadMarketing lately?

We can already copy files, as well as stream them. by AugstWest · 2004-01-09 03:20 · Score: 3, Interesting

Check out TiVo-mplayer, and turn your TiVo into a media server for your entire lan...

With 802.11G, you can watch the stuff anywhere now. Pretty sweet.

It's very simple. Time IS money. by HarveyBirdman · 2004-01-09 03:21 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm about as tech savvy as you can get. I've built designed and built motherboards from scratch. My job involves hardware designs with a dozen multimillion gate FPGA designs where I design the board AND write the VHDL for the FPGAs. I've done digital designs over 10 GHz. On the software side, I've been programming since the Apple II. I'm there, OK?

Yet I still bought a DirecTivo. I also have one of the first ReplayTV units. Why make more work for myself? Why go through the bother? The box was $149. Monthly fee? Who cares? I make a lot of money, and can deal with $5 a month. If it buys me a noccasional software upgrade and semi-well managed guide information, then fine. And season passes ARE a big whoop. They are very convenient.

Also, the DirecTivo records the original digital stream from the satellite and has dual tuners and a very nice interface. I just can't see the point to reinventing the wheel. I could probably build my own mountain bike. I have the tools. I know how to weld. But why? I'd rather do something no one has done before.

At work, if I need an amplifier in a design, I buy a prepackaged component. My job performance would be seriously questioned if I spent $4000 in man hours designing an RF amplifer when one with identical specs can be bought off the shelf for $20.

My time is worth something to me. If I have to spend more than 1 hour a month dicking around with a PC based DVR, then I've "spent" more than $5 for that month. If it took me more than 24 hours of plugging things together and debugging, well, my time spent already covers the typical lifetime of one of these gadgets before the next one with new features and more integration comes along.

And you seem to be forgetting that 98% of the population is NOT as savvy as a typical /. user. There is an enormous market for these things, as large as the VCR market. I think the integrated products like DirecTivo and now Tivo DVD recorders are going to be what really starts to light a fire.

--
--- Ban humanity.

Re:It's very simple. Time IS money. by Didion+Sprague · 2004-01-09 03:35 · Score: 2, Funny

My god. This may be the first pragmatic post I've read on Slashdot in months.

Right on, brother.

I agree 100%. Everyone's always got the better idea -- "Hey, man, listen to this: I get the GribbleGrabble OS, add a DibbleDabbe board, and lookity-look with only some fibble fabble doobily doop API calls to the fibble fabble, I can kabble wobble the hoppity hobble."

Why bother -- when all you have to do it walk into Best Buy, walk out with a TIVO, and plug it in?

Some guy in this thread talks about spending 8 hours configuring Linux, warning that HabbleFabbleTV isn't for newbies, cuz, man, if you're a newbie, you'd be better off with a boring ol' TIVO. Got that?

Yeah, I got it. More power to ya: but come on. Time is money -- and time is time, period -- and if all you do is fiddle with yabble dibble, then fine -- rock on.

But I got a kids, the air is nice outside, the snow is pretty, and I got better things to do than wabble wibble with the uber-kibble kobble.
Re:It's very simple. Time IS money. by aardwolf204 · 2004-01-09 03:55 · Score: 2, Funny

I dont have kids, I'm 20, so fibble fabbling with the HabbleFabbleTV and wabble wibbling with the uber-kibble kobble is whats going to get me to where you, Mr. I've got so much damn money, what does it matter if I just walk into bestbuy and walk out with the latest consumer electronic blah blah blah.

So you design multi-gate-transistorfied mother-bored fibble fabble, nifty old dude. you keep taking the comfortable in my 40's route and I'll keep fabbling with my fobbles and maybe when all this fibbling pays off and I'm as rich as you in my 40's I'll make the same post to /. as the new generation uber-kibble kibblers discus how much uber it is to build their own penguinfied personal space craft instead of just taking Delta to Mars.

--
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the /.crowd.May ur days b merry & bright & may al

You need to "upgrade" to Tivo 4.0 by Dan+Berlin · 2004-01-09 03:38 · Score: 2, Informative

Tivo 4.0 (including support for wireless USB cards) actually works on Series 2 DirectTivo's.
See the dealdatabase forums for more details.
My HDVR2 now runs Tivo 4.0 with no problems, and I have a wireless USB adapter connected to Tivo that it uses for downloads.

Re:so what by dbrower · 2004-01-09 04:25 · Score: 2, Informative

My biggest complaint about the tivo is that I can't get shows out of it.

Yes you can. There's a 'play to vcr' option that works just fine. This works even with the DirecTivo.

Tivo isn't going to be fighting the DRM war for us. They are hostages to the industry just like we are.

-dB

--
"It if was easy to do, we'd find someone cheaper than you to do it."

Re:TiVo is a dying business by crawling_chaos · 2004-01-09 04:42 · Score: 2

It all depends on whether or not TiVo can make a product clearly superior to the cable offerings. Not all purchase decisions are driven by price. By your logic Porsche and BMW are also dying businesses since Hyundais are much cheaper. TiVo will lose customers to the cable giants, and may even become a niche player like some computer makers I can think of, but it stands a pretty good chance of still being around and profitable.

--
You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
-- Colonel Adolphus Busch

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