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RIAA Takes the Fight to the Streets
Lapzilla writes "In an article from LA Weekly, it would appear the RIAA has taken their fight to the streets. Wearing jackets with "RIAA" emblazoned upon them, they have taken to busting street vendors in an FBI fashion for selling bootleg CDs and DVDs."
Is this for real? Who gave them the authority to do this? If I were to plagiarize someone's work of fiction, it doesn't give that person the right to bust into my bookstore and throw things around. There are legal proceedings to be followed. Whatever happened to decency?
Damon,
http://actionPlant.com
For its part, the RIAA maintains that the up-close-and-personal techniques are nothing new. RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy says its investigators do not represent themselves as police, and that the incident reports vendors are asked to sign, in which they agree to hand over their discs, explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary.
All right boys... Make sure the boots go up above the knees... We're heading into bullshit territory!
If the RIAA isn't trying to look like the police why do they bother hiring ex-police officers, wear clothing similar to raiding police units, and cavort about as some sort of tactical unit? It is obvious to me that they want the "villains" to think they are the cops (and those street vendors, at least for the time being, are going to believe that they are).
Pink slips that say they handed the stuff over voluntarily or not... They are acting as an official force on duty to confiscate material and they want to look as official as possible to have these individuals fork over the material quickly and without issue. If they are so concerned about their property being "stolen" and resold why don't they contact the real police and have them do it? Probably because the real police have better things to do than worry about what is being sold in Chinatown...
Please remember that this is where your money is going when you decide to purchase music that is "owned" by the RIAA... Busting 12 year olds and funding a "tactical unit" to bust street vendors.
My suggestion, as always, is to support FREE MUSIC. FurthurNET and Sharing the Groove
Good luck RIAA and thanks for yet another humorous charade!
It appears the RIAA is busting people under color of law. If this is true then it is a big deal. This means that the people they are busting believe they are police. Even if you're not a cop, if you present yourself as one, you are considered a state actor by the courts just like a real cop and can be held civilly liable for violations of civil rights. Private citizens acting in their private interests cannot be held liable under the civil rights statutes (primarily 42 USC 1984) but state actors can.
oh there's a smashing idea! private citizens' initiatives at law enforcement always turn out to be fair and equatible treatments of not only the letter but the spirit of the law.
2 1337 4 u!
Hello future, the present is calling
...they may all be ex-P.D. Yes, they wear cop-style clothes and carry official-looking IDs. But if they leave people like Borrayo with the impression that they're actual law enforcement, that's a mistake.
From the article this sounds pretty dispicable:
"The RIAA saw it differently. Figuring the discs were bootlegs, a four-man RIAA squad descended on his stand a few days before Christmas and persuaded the 4-foot-11 Borrayo to hand over voluntarily a total of 78 discs.
"They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs," he said through an interpreter.
With all the trappings of a police team, including pink incident reports that, among other things, record a vendor's height, weight, hair and eye color"
A disgusting case of intimidation. Way to go RIAA, pick on a 4' 11" guy who hardly knows English.
But is this really any suprise? Plenty of companies have their own private police forces (and small private militaries too) and you still can hire your own army if you've go the cash, which many companies do.
This statement goes a little far in my opinion:
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time."
Which is a polite way of saying: "Those damn shifty Mexicans! They can't be trusted!" You're not the police! If I don't tell you my real name, there's nothing wrong with that, you idiots.
Casual Games/Downloads
It may save tax dollars - but it is a step toward private business enforcing it's own laws. Has anyone read Snowcrash (by Neal Steavenson) where the different parts of the city all have their own rent-a-cops that enforce different laws? I realize that the RIAA is attempting to combat piracy - but they should not be making claims like "They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs..." (from article).
Taking law into your own hands is not something I want to see happen in America - for example some guy starts pulling over speeders that drive by his house, or a store owner shoots two kids that are shoplifting... Simply put I don't trust the RIAA and most private law enforcement agencies. That is why I pay taxes - so I can have a FAIR and UNBIASED bunch of law enforcement.
That said - I think the guy was an idiot for selling pirated stuff and don't support him one bit - it is the tactics that are being used that scare me.
There is always a frontier where there is an open and willing mind
It's pretty obvious what they're doing - essentially saying that they have the power to arrest and incarcerate private citizens - and they could end up in some serious legal hot water here. There are all sorts of laws against vigilantism and misrepresenting yourself as an officer of the law. I'd say that this could end up as an even bigger PR mistake than attacking grannies and little kids; there, they were (technically) on the right side of the law. Here, they're blatantly violating the law in order to get what they want. I hope they burn.
Note: I'm not a lawyer. If you need one, get one licensed in your jurisidiction; if you've been hassled by these assholes, you definately need a lawyer. As far as I can tell, this would be a slam-dunk case for a first year law student, let alone an experienced litigator.
That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
No, they aren't seizing the property. They are mereley requesting for it to be handed over, otherwise they will pursue legal action. It's like if you stole my bike, i goto your house prove to you it's my bike and you stole it. I then can ask you to give it back, and if you decline, then I call authorities who will force you to do so.
These RIAA pukes are starting to blur the line between corporation and government.
First they started collected taxes by getting a "you'll probably use these for piracy" fee tacked onto recordable media.
Now they're donning lettered windbreakers to act as law enforcement.
What next, are they going to form their own army and invade Thailand on some WMD (weapons of music duplication) witch hunt??? Where does it end?
~Philly
Macy's wont come storming your house pretending to be police, when you are a shoplifting suspect, thats what.
"/Dread"
I think it was both a parody on the old Southpark joke (adopted so well here at /.) and pretty funny (ironic) that someone would pretend to be a pirate buster, to bust pirates using a pirated logo.
On a serious note I am really glad they are going after real pirates, i.e. those nasty organised crime gangs that sell boot-leg materials, making profits to fund other nasty activities. If the RIAA concentrated on going after organised crime (people who make a profit on piracy) rather than individuals who are only after single-use and no profit-at-the-expense-of-others mentality, I may start to like them.
IMHO most people who download music will either subsequently buy the item if they like it (repeated use, better quality from a CD, associated benefits etc), or not buy it if they don't (like music from a radio, occasional use, but don't mind if they have it or not). Organised pirates take money destined for artists/labels from people who would otherwise be likely to pay full (fair, maybe full after discount sometimes) price.
Organised criminals are the real pirates.
--
FreeNET user? Comfortable with the adverse selection?
Here's a few choice quotes:
RIAA:"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."
Racism, anyone?
How about this gem, regarding parading around looking like cops, but not being cops:
RIAA:If that person feels he was wrongly interrogated or under the false pretense that these people were cops, they should contact their local police station as a victim. We'll sort it all out.
Riiiiiiiight. Make sure you have your receipts on you before you try this one, kids.
It used to be fun to tow the Slashdot line and bash the RIAA for being evil...but you know what? They actually are evil. This is some pretty twisted shit. Racial profiling, impersonating the police, harassment, photographing likely suspects...unbelieveable.
Weaselmancer
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
but the RIAA stormtrooper methods are so questionable that the actions should not be praised, regardless of the fact that these vendors might be a better target than the end user.
Well, they have the guy from the BATF running the anti-piracy wing now, right?
Expect more of this 'agency-esque' antics....
---- Booth was a patriot ----
They have no right to do this. They're not police or an authority designated by the government, they're pinkertons hired by the RIAA to enforce their rules.
Um, no. They're agents of the owners of the copyrights being infringed. They can legally do anything the original copyright holder could do including agreeing not to sue the offender in exchange for ceasing the infringing activity. While they might not be legally justified in using force to seize the property, NO ONE is alleging they did. Their attire is completly irrelevant to this point.
If they represented themselves as police officers then they are guilty of a criminal offense, which is completely orthogonal to the confiscation.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
Well, let's see...
Nah, I'm sure they harrass everyone equally.Too bad they won't really find out how much authority they don't have until one of the scumbag pirates decides to defend themselves. This also brings up an interesting point- it's always easier to start with doing this stuff to scumbags first- once it becomes common practice, then you can start doing it to other people.
IIRC from my intellectual property law class, raids must be conducted by law enforcement- the IP owner only gets to go along to identify what was not legit.
Taking the law into your own hands like this makes you just as much a criminal as the person you're after. (and the person you're after is probably a better criminal than the hack that's doing it for the first time)
Take a step onto the illegal side, and you can't expect the law to protect you.
DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
"How is this different from Macy's in New York, which has its own holding cell in their basement for shoplifters who have been detained and are awaiting the NYPD?"
AFAIK that's called "Citizen's Arrest" and AFAIK is legal in most places. You hold them until the cops arrive.
What folks are worried about is the RIAA doing more than holding or not bothering to call the cops at all.
~Dalcius
Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
First of all, you can't give someone the right to "wave the gun around" without giving them the right to shoot it. This is a practical matter: as soon as a gun is drawn, all bets are off because life is at risk unless the person without the gun is totally submissive, and far away to begin with. Police don't kill people very often because we hold them to a higher standard than a normal citizen. We expect them to be able to fend someone off until it's necessary to kill.
So, if a bunch of people who aren't police officers "raid" you, it wouldn't be out of the question to consider that you were being attacked. And it wouldn't be out of the question to consider that they could kill you, and that this may be your last opportunity to save your life.
If you know you're not in danger, however, it is murder. But if it's a bunch of scary looking people against one guy that has a bunch of cash on him (because he's been selling illegal stuff all day), I don't think the police would ask too many more questions.
As far as public vs. private property, I don't really see how that matters. If you're being mugged on public property, you can still shoot the guy if you think it may save your life. The only indicator is that it is more likely that someone is coming to kill you if they actually trespass, and so deadly force is more easily justified. It's certainly not required, however.
Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
...staff of ex-cops
...Figur[ed] the discs were bootlegs
..."They said they were police from the recording industry or something..."
- But if they leave people like Borrayo with the impression that they're actual law enforcement, that's a mistake.
NEGATIVE. That's a FELONY.- oversees
... contractors who sniff out bootleg discs
Apparently without a nose... Did they have any proof other than a hispanic male selling CDs and DVDs from a parking lot booth? They didn't "figure" anything; they blindly assumed guilt based on the person and the place.- the incident reports
... explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary
Voluntary my ass! A bunch a dudes dressed and behaving like cops "asking" you to hand over your stuff. Right. And I bet they don't carry any weapons either.continued sale would be a violation of civil and criminal codes (like it isn't aleady?)
- The process of confiscating bootleg CDs from street vendors is exactly what the RIAA should be doing," said Jason Schultz
Wrong, Mr. Schultz. RIAA is not a law enforcement division. They have no more right than any other citizen to "confiscate" another persons property.Assuming what they are doing is illegal, it seems like Barrayo would have to "contact [his] local police station as a victim" for them to take action against the RIAA.
It sounds like they're mainly targeting hispanics; what are the odds they're only targeting illegal aliens (which isn't to say all hispanics are illegal aliens, but that Mexico isn't terribly far from LA, so it's probably safe to say many of the illegal aliens in that area are hispanic). If Barrayo or the others are illegal aliens, I think "[contacting] their local police station" is the last thing they want to do.
That aside, do the laws you mentioned (impersonating a police officer, etc.) even apply to illegal aliens? Maybe the RIAA is more intelligent than we think.
Now for the obligatory Family Guy quote:
"Oh you speak english?"
"No, just that sentence and this one explaining it."
"You're kidding, right?"
"Que?"
USE='clever' emerge -u sig
This drives me nuts. People, remember who you are bashing. The RIAA is just a front for media companies that don't want their images tarnished.
This is a list of RIAA members
Remember - they *want* you to be upset at the RIAA. It is a convenient way to keep your attention focused on an antagonist, rather than the companies that it is backed by.
>I was just wondering when this would start
>happening.
I'll tell you exactly when it STOPS happening. When they try an illegal tactic like this against a person with the most vague clue, I don't know, like maybe they've seen an episode of COPS or Judge Judy?
"What police department did you say you were with?"
"Can you show me that search warrant again?"
"I'll need you to contact my attorney if you want any further information."
"Am I free to leave?"
"You won't mind if I just call the regular police and get their opinion about your offer to use handcuffs on me, right?"
"How about you step off my property right this minute, and I won't prosecute you for trespassing?"
***ANYTHING*** other than "here is all my property, please take it, and don't even leave me your card....
If nothing else, make them forcibly take your property, then you have a simple case of robbery, maybe armed robbery depending on how your state regards the weapon status handcuffs.
Hell you don't even give your property to the police when they arrest you on a felony, without a reciept and clear paperwork.
If you get taken by crooks, RIAA jacket or no RIAA jacket, you need to use some common sense and you also need to seek recourse to the law immediately.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
from getting an 'official looking' jacket with RIAA on it, an "id" and busting a street vendor myself and scoring some free cd's? Well what's to stop me other than the fact I'm a lazy git.
Last I checked "impersonating an RIAA employee" is not illegal or breaking any law I'm aware of, and if they give you their stuff voluntarily it's not stealing.
It'd be FUNNY as heck to hear of fake RIAA agents busting vendors like this...
--- www.f-theocean.com
There is a very easy way to stop this. We need to relize that the RIAA-police force are just a bunch of hired private thugs. That said they can not represent themselfs as police officers. So I suggest we start a spot light compaiegn. We should hangout where they work, and follow them as they do their job.. perfectly legal. Then we publicly and loudly heckle them as they attempt to raid, at the same time we inform the victums that they are victums and call the real police, say the victum belived these were some kind of police officers and file a report that leads to a complaint as impersonatinting an officer. Nothing stops unpopular vigilatism faster then a large public glare.
They take anything on CD-R. A while ago there was a story on /. about these RIAA goons going into actual stores, not street corners, and taking all of their stuff on CD-R, which just so happened to be legit indy stuff.
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI