RIAA Takes the Fight to the Streets

Time to get to work... by DaZedAdAm · 2004-01-09 08:02 · Score: 4, Funny

1. Make RIAA jacket and take street vendors' products.
2. ?
3. Profit!!!

Re:Time to get to work... by Mod+Me+God · 2004-01-09 08:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

I think it was both a parody on the old Southpark joke (adopted so well here at /.) and pretty funny (ironic) that someone would pretend to be a pirate buster, to bust pirates using a pirated logo.

On a serious note I am really glad they are going after real pirates, i.e. those nasty organised crime gangs that sell boot-leg materials, making profits to fund other nasty activities. If the RIAA concentrated on going after organised crime (people who make a profit on piracy) rather than individuals who are only after single-use and no profit-at-the-expense-of-others mentality, I may start to like them.

IMHO most people who download music will either subsequently buy the item if they like it (repeated use, better quality from a CD, associated benefits etc), or not buy it if they don't (like music from a radio, occasional use, but don't mind if they have it or not). Organised pirates take money destined for artists/labels from people who would otherwise be likely to pay full (fair, maybe full after discount sometimes) price.

Organised criminals are the real pirates.

--
-- FreeNET user? Comfortable with the adverse selection?
Re:Time to get to work... by BuckaBooBob · 2004-01-09 08:34 · Score: 3, Interesting

Didn't some Big wig from the ATF come over to the RIAA? Wonder who came up with this idea?

--
Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt
Re:Time to get to work... by happyfrogcow · 2004-01-09 08:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

but the RIAA stormtrooper methods are so questionable that the actions should not be praised, regardless of the fact that these vendors might be a better target than the end user.
Re:Time to get to work... by Triv · 2004-01-09 08:51 · Score: 5, Interesting

You're missing the point, I think.

The problem isn't with the intent, per se, the problem is with the RIAA's methods - a bunch of ex-cops in RIAA jackets go up to a guy selling stuff on the street raid-style, scare the shit outta him, make him sign a "They didn't do anything illegal, honest, my goods were given over voluntarily" document and confiscate their discs. They have no right to do this. They're not police or an authority designated by the government, they're pinkertons hired by the RIAA to enforce their rules. This is wholeheartedly illegal (impersonating a police officer, etc.)

I'm all for the taking down of the major bootleggers, but this is utterly criminal. These people have zero authority to enforce any laws, anywhere. It's a PR blitz that will hopefully backfire.

Triv
Re:Time to get to work... by monkeydo · 2004-01-09 09:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

They have no right to do this. They're not police or an authority designated by the government, they're pinkertons hired by the RIAA to enforce their rules.

Um, no. They're agents of the owners of the copyrights being infringed. They can legally do anything the original copyright holder could do including agreeing not to sue the offender in exchange for ceasing the infringing activity. While they might not be legally justified in using force to seize the property, NO ONE is alleging they did. Their attire is completly irrelevant to this point.

If they represented themselves as police officers then they are guilty of a criminal offense, which is completely orthogonal to the confiscation.

--
Si vis pacem, para bellum
The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
Re:Time to get to work... by netruner · 2004-01-09 09:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

Too bad they won't really find out how much authority they don't have until one of the scumbag pirates decides to defend themselves. This also brings up an interesting point- it's always easier to start with doing this stuff to scumbags first- once it becomes common practice, then you can start doing it to other people.

IIRC from my intellectual property law class, raids must be conducted by law enforcement- the IP owner only gets to go along to identify what was not legit.

Taking the law into your own hands like this makes you just as much a criminal as the person you're after. (and the person you're after is probably a better criminal than the hack that's doing it for the first time)

Take a step onto the illegal side, and you can't expect the law to protect you.

--

DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
Re:Time to get to work... by Kissing+Crimson · 2004-01-09 09:25 · Score: 3, Informative

Citizen's arrest powers only apply to violent acts, and usually only to felonies. Sorry, but you can't slap handcuffs on the guy in the next cube because he has a few MP3's.

[constitution.org]

--
What's that smell? Ah, that's my karma burning...
Re:Time to get to work... by innocent_white_lamb · 2004-01-09 10:25 · Score: 5, Informative

Their attire is completly irrelevant to this point.

Not if it would lead a reasonable person to believe that they are a police officer.

If they represented themselves as police officers then they are guilty of a criminal offense,

Indeed.

--
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
Re:Time to get to work... by the+argonaut · 2004-01-09 11:12 · Score: 4, Informative

Except what they're doing isn't a citizen's (note the apostrophe) arrest. In almost every state statute covering citizen's arrests, one of the requirements is that you turn over the arrested person to law enforcement for prosecution. The concept isn't that any joe citizen on the street can start executing his own style of vigilante justice, but rather that in cases where a police officer is not present a private citizen may act to prevent the carrying out of a crime - but as soon as is feasible the arrestee should be turned over to actual law enforcement.

What the RIAA is doing in this case is harassing people who happen to be breaking the law, and I think the way in which they are choosing to pursue is of dubious legality. I wouldn't be surprised if they find themselves on the other end of a lawsuit in the near future over this.

--
fuck you.
Re:Time to get to work... by MarkusQ · 2004-01-09 11:29 · Score: 3, Informative

I'm only familiar with the term "orthogonal" in a math context. What do you mean by the sentence:
"If they represented themselves as police officers then they are guilty of a criminal offense, which is completely orthogonal to the confiscation."
It's the same sense of the word. Consider representing your self as a police officer as a vector (call it RPO) of social/ethical concerns, and likewise confiscation (call it CONF). He's saying that RPO dot CONF equals zero; in other words, that issues raised by one are not raised by the other or--to the extent that they are--the ways in which they are raised cancel out overall.
-- MarkusQ
P.S. A less formal way of looking at it: if you were to change the extent to which they were guilty of either PRO or CONF, the change would have no effect on the magnitude of their guilt with regard to the other offense.
Re:Time to get to work... by canajin56 · 2004-01-09 19:21 · Score: 4, Insightful

They take anything on CD-R. A while ago there was a story on /. about these RIAA goons going into actual stores, not street corners, and taking all of their stuff on CD-R, which just so happened to be legit indy stuff.

--
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI

Cool... by FortKnox · 2004-01-09 08:02 · Score: 5, Funny

It's like saving taxdollars. They do the police's work and the police can worry about real crime, then.

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Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!

Re:Cool... by PRES_00 · 2004-01-09 08:07 · Score: 3, Interesting

If they admitted that their "sue y'all" tactics are just a lame excuse for a dying marketing strategy; the police wouldn't have had to worry about arresting some 14 year old kid for doing something that they probably did too in their youth (tape recording).
Re:Cool... by Frymaster · 2004-01-09 08:08 · Score: 5, Insightful

They do the police's work and the police can worry about real crime, then.
oh there's a smashing idea! private citizens' initiatives at law enforcement always turn out to be fair and equatible treatments of not only the letter but the spirit of the law.

--
2 1337 4 u!
Re:Cool... by brundlefly · 2004-01-09 08:18 · Score: 4, Interesting

How is this different from Macy's in New York, which has its own holding cell in their basement for shoplifters who have been detained and are awaiting the NYPD?
Re:Cool... by SlashDread · 2004-01-09 08:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

Macy's wont come storming your house pretending to be police, when you are a shoplifting suspect, thats what.

"/Dread"
Re:Cool... by Tassach · 2004-01-09 08:41 · Score: 5, Informative

It's like vigilantism. Last time I checked, the RIAA did not have police powers. Even if they hired licencesd private investigators, the most they can legally do is gather evidence to present to a jury. If they're confiscating a vendor's goods (even if they are infringing copyright) without a court order, it is THEFT (the real kind). If they detain someone, it's false arrest. If they hit someone, it's assault & battery.
Except under some VERY limited circumstances, private citizens are not allowed to enforce the law, and even then they are taking a risk of being charged themselves.

--
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Re:Cool... by suwain_2 · 2004-01-09 08:41 · Score: 4, Interesting

Even that is kind of sketchy-seeming; however, you're on their property and presumably you're placed under a 'citizen\'s arrest' by them, which I believe it technically legal, though you'd better know exactly what you're doing lest you find yourself the target of a tremendous lawsuit and/or unlawful detention charges.

If you break into the RIAA headquarters, and they hold you there until the police arrive, it's probably legal. But if they randomly run around -- in public or, better yet, on your private property -- pretending to be the police, it's suddenly a blatant felony.

--
________________________________________________
suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p
Re:Cool... by stefanlasiewski · 2004-01-09 08:54 · Score: 3, Interesting

oh there's a smashing idea! private citizens' initiatives at law enforcement always turn out to be fair and equatible treatments of not only the letter but the spirit of the law.

Right on. How much do want to bet that using this tactic, the RIAA harasses a disproportinate percentage of non-whites?

--
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Re:Cool... by Dman33 · 2004-01-09 09:18 · Score: 3, Informative

From Crimedoctor:

You must approach the shoplifter outside of the store. Although not technically necessary, following this step eliminates all possibility that the shoplifter still intends to pay for the stolen product. A few courts have held that detaining someone for shoplifting inside a retail store does not establish the criminal intent of theft. However, in several states shoplifters can be detained once they have concealed the merchandise. When approaching a shoplifter outside of the store always have a least one trained employee as a witness. There is safety in numbers and most shoplifters will cooperate if they believe fighting or running is futile. When you approach a shoplifter outside it is important to identify yourself clearly and your authority for stopping them. Plain-clothes loss prevention agents carry badges or official looking ID cards so the shoplifter has no doubt who they are. Most shoplifter apprehensions should be accomplished with no force or if necessary, minimal force like touching or guiding. Professional loss prevention agents sometimes will use handcuffs to take someone into custody, if they are first trained how and when to legally apply them properly.

In almost every jurisdiction if you follow these six steps, you should have no problem with proving criminal intent to shoplift and be able to establish probable cause to detain a shoplifter.

I guess the question is exactly how can a store detain you, especially if the items shoplifted are at a value low enough for the crime to be a misdemeanor?

That is where Security Expert comes into play:
In almost all jurisdictions in the United States, merchants are legally empowered to detain shoplifting suspects for investigation and possible arrest and prosecution in the criminal justice system. This power is called "merchant's privilege."

There are more details about Merchant's privilege in the aformentioned link.
Re:Cool... by tapin · 2004-01-09 09:21 · Score: 3, Insightful

Right on. How much do want to bet that using this tactic, the RIAA harasses a disproportinate percentage of non-whites?
Well, let's see...
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time."
Nah, I'm sure they harrass everyone equally.
Re:Cool... by Dalcius · 2004-01-09 09:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

"How is this different from Macy's in New York, which has its own holding cell in their basement for shoplifters who have been detained and are awaiting the NYPD?"

AFAIK that's called "Citizen's Arrest" and AFAIK is legal in most places. You hold them until the cops arrive.

What folks are worried about is the RIAA doing more than holding or not bothering to call the cops at all.

--
~Dalcius
Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
Re:Cool... by Fjornir · 2004-01-09 10:05 · Score: 4, Interesting

I'm no lawyer. Ingest with salt as needed.
I know that Florida, at least, extends limited deputy police powers to state-certified loss-prevention agents. They can and will detain you. By force if needed. Other states require bonds, more intensive training classes, and may refer to it by a different name, but you can bet that if you are detained by a security guard, he's allowed to do so.
Now the big stores are terrified of the liability risks so they are very careful about using these powers. They will "ask" you to step into the back (probably in an asshole-coplike-voice), and "ask" to look in your bag. If you say you're not going into the back then said guard has got to make a judgement call -- does he have a sufficient chain of evidence to protect himself and his boss in the event of a lawsuit?
In most cases that would run like this: seeing you take and/or conceal the item -- ideally on camera. Then following them with cameras and/or floor agents to confirm you didn't have a reasonable chance of dropping the item -- if there's a visible bulge from the item, so much the better. Next, they want to see you bypass a point of sale and attempt to exit the store to prevent the "I just tucked it in my pocket so I could flip through that magazine with both hands" defense. If they've got all that, their asses are covered in detaining you.
As a side note, even if they've got all of that on you, they may or may not decide to chase you if you pull a runner. These guys are there to keep the company from losing money, not to keep people from shoplifting. If you're snatching a cheap item, you're probably not worth the risk of a chase. The company would much rather write off a pack of gum than have to pay for hip surgery on the little old lady their guard slammed into while trying to catch you. If you run, run through the parking lot, not along the sidewalk -- the company doesn't want higher insurance premiums 'cause their guards keep getting hit by cars, and will instruct the guards not to chase through the parking lot. If you run, get off their property ASAP -- they almost certainly do not have hot-pursuit powers...
Finally, if you absolutely must not get caught (like you've got an outstanding warrant or are on probation or whatever) claim to be armed. There's no way a security guard's going to subject himself or the customers to gunfire. Depending on where you are that might be enough for an assault with a deadly weapon charge though, so it's probably not too wise.

--
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.

Whoa by DumbWhiteGuy777 · 2004-01-09 08:02 · Score: 5, Funny

Let's say, theoretically, someone wanted to purchase these jackets. Where would one buy them?

I, er, my friend wants one.

Re:Whoa by hornrimsylvia · 2004-01-09 08:20 · Score: 5, Funny

you don't BUY an RIAA jacket, you make your own and then share them with your friends.
Re:Whoa by stefanlasiewski · 2004-01-09 09:01 · Score: 4, Funny

True story

Around year 2000, a friend of mine printed up a bunch of flack jackets that said (In BIG letters) 'FBI'. In small letters above 'FBI', it had the disclaimer "Not a member of the".

When we wore these jackets in public, we would be harrassed by many people (particularly drunk peopople). They had the gall to accuse us of being members of the FBI, called us "Fucking pigs!", etc.

Can you imagine?!? We often needed to calm them down and explain "Sir, sir! It clearly says here", *point*, "that I am *not* a member of the FBI."

They usually didn't get it.

Haven't worn that jacket in a while. It became very un-funny to some people, especially the cops.

--
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."

Freeze! RIAA! by Tom7 · 2004-01-09 08:03 · Score: 3, Funny

Man, that is hilarious. Do they even cart people away in caged vans?

I'd say the folks wearing RIAA jackets might want to watch their backs...

the riaa is breaking the law here by mpost4 · 2004-01-09 08:03 · Score: 5, Interesting

It seams to me that if they make them selfs to look like the cops, that would break a law about impersonating a police, they even said they are "They said they were police from the recording industry." They have no power to do this, this is just some FUD tactics on their part, I am not saying that it is ok to sell bootlegs. Once you start to make money from bootlegs (and from the article it does not seam that the guy was selling bootlegs to his knowledge, they might have been with that upfront cost but that is another story) then you have crossed from fair use to copyright infringement, but still 2 wrongs do not make a right, and the RIAA is really opening them selfs up to major legal problems, but being that they have such a strong lobby group they might not get into trouble.

Utter havoc. by ActionPlant · 2004-01-09 08:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

Is this for real? Who gave them the authority to do this? If I were to plagiarize someone's work of fiction, it doesn't give that person the right to bust into my bookstore and throw things around. There are legal proceedings to be followed. Whatever happened to decency?

Damon,

--
http://actionPlant.com

Re:Utter havoc. by Lumpy · 2004-01-09 08:19 · Score: 4, Funny

The fun part is that they really shouldn't be suprised when one or more of them get's seriously hurt or killed.

whoever though this was a good idea is a complete idiot.

street vendor get's attacked by a RIAA jacket wearing group, street vendor pulls out pistol and cap's a couple of them. Hey, why don't they start their sweep in south central LA.

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Utter havoc. by swordgeek · 2004-01-09 08:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

I agree with their choice in targets. I disagree, and take great issue with their tactics. Implied threats, intimidation, misdirection, and coercion are not legally (or morally) acceptable ways of obtaining material 'voluntarily.'

If they would get a court order, or got the cops to act legally, then this wouldn't be bad. Four thugs dressed in 'almost cop' uniforms approaching a tiny guy who may or not understand english well, is unacceptable.

--

"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban

Libraries Next! by nightsweat · 2004-01-09 08:03 · Score: 5, Funny

RIAA Cop: OK, Mr. Carnegie - just what do you think you're doing?

Citizen: Um, listening to a record I checked out from the library?

RIAA Cop: "Checked out"? Don't you mean "Used to commit a crime!?"

Citizen: Um, no. I don't think-

RIAA Cop: That's the problem - you don't think! Come with me - we're going to Walmart so you can BUY that record. "Checked out" - I've never heard such a pathetic excuse.

--

the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White

Quotes by GnrlFajita · 2004-01-09 08:04 · Score: 5, Funny

if an anti-piracy team crossed the line between looking like cops and implying or telling vendors that they are cops, the Los Angeles Police Department would take a pretty dim view

I don't know -- the RIAA is pretty low, but I don't think even they would want people to confuse them with the LAPD.

Second best quote: "They tried to scare me," Borrayo said. "They told me, 'You're a pirate!' I said, 'C'mon, guys, pirates are all at sea. I just work in a parking lot.'"

--
When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
Mark Twain

Next step by daeley · 2004-01-09 08:05 · Score: 5, Funny

Next step: Street Vendors selling RIAA-emblazoned jackets. Oh the hilarity!

--
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.

Re:Next step by Dr+Reducto · 2004-01-09 08:15 · Score: 4, Funny

Are you ready for RANDOM HOME INSPECTIONS!

The RIAA is Coming!
Re:Next step by aardwolf204 · 2004-01-09 08:46 · Score: 5, Funny

They'd probably sue you for trademark infringement.

Yes but my RIAA jacket stands for "Really Intrusive American Assholes"

--
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the /.crowd.May ur days b merry & bright & may al

remember where your money is going! by garcia · 2004-01-09 08:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

For its part, the RIAA maintains that the up-close-and-personal techniques are nothing new. RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy says its investigators do not represent themselves as police, and that the incident reports vendors are asked to sign, in which they agree to hand over their discs, explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary.
All right boys... Make sure the boots go up above the knees... We're heading into bullshit territory!

If the RIAA isn't trying to look like the police why do they bother hiring ex-police officers, wear clothing similar to raiding police units, and cavort about as some sort of tactical unit? It is obvious to me that they want the "villains" to think they are the cops (and those street vendors, at least for the time being, are going to believe that they are).

Pink slips that say they handed the stuff over voluntarily or not... They are acting as an official force on duty to confiscate material and they want to look as official as possible to have these individuals fork over the material quickly and without issue. If they are so concerned about their property being "stolen" and resold why don't they contact the real police and have them do it? Probably because the real police have better things to do than worry about what is being sold in Chinatown...

Please remember that this is where your money is going when you decide to purchase music that is "owned" by the RIAA... Busting 12 year olds and funding a "tactical unit" to bust street vendors.

My suggestion, as always, is to support FREE MUSIC. FurthurNET and Sharing the Groove

Good luck RIAA and thanks for yet another humorous charade!

Re:remember where your money is going! by silentbozo · 2004-01-09 08:59 · Score: 3, Insightful

Actually, the RIAA is right - raids by company agents (either on behalf of the RIAA or the MPAA) are nothing new, and have been conducted against street vendors, mom & pop shops, and mass pirating operations in the past. HOWEVER, these types of raids have ALWAYS involved the cooperation of local and state law enforcement - the company agents ID the culprits, gather evidence (usually in the form of photographs, purchased merchandise, etc.), and once an air-tight case is built, the raid is conducted, by regular law enforcement with company assistance.

From the article, it sounds like they've decided to forgo local law enforcement cooperation, and go the way of the BSA (no not the boy scouts) and tackle suspects as a law unto themselves. The "voluntary" forfeiture aspect is particularly troubling, since what it amounts to is "We know you're committing a crime - hand over the evidence and we won't send you to jail." Since these private contractors have no power of arrest, and the only legal recourse is to haul these vendors into court and present actual evidence, what it amounts to is circumventing the normal process of law (ie, vigilantism.) By using the threat of force (the suggestion that you WILL get hauled off to jail is a pretty good threat) to take property - when you don't have those powers, some might call it a pretty good bluff. I'd call it a con game and call the cops on these guys instead.

They should be careful in NY... by bc90021 · 2004-01-09 08:06 · Score: 4, Funny

...as the vendors might fight back! Those guys can be *mean** if you piss them off...

--
libertarianswag.com

Under color of law by MillionthMonkey · 2004-01-09 08:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

It appears the RIAA is busting people under color of law. If this is true then it is a big deal. This means that the people they are busting believe they are police. Even if you're not a cop, if you present yourself as one, you are considered a state actor by the courts just like a real cop and can be held civilly liable for violations of civil rights. Private citizens acting in their private interests cannot be held liable under the civil rights statutes (primarily 42 USC 1984) but state actors can.

Can they really do this? by LamerX · 2004-01-09 08:07 · Score: 4, Interesting

Okay, so lets say they walk into a place that is making counterfit CDs. Do they really have the right to go in and cease all of the counterfit property? I thought that they had to go through proper legal channels to do this. If this is okay for them to do, then why can't the creator of a GPL product bust into a company they know is violating the GPL in thier hardware and just start taking stuff? I'm surprised SCO hasn't started busting into every business and started taking computers with Linux on them... Wearing jackets that say SCO on them. SCO is scarier sounding than RIAA.

Re:Can they really do this? by kidgenius · 2004-01-09 08:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

No, they aren't seizing the property. They are mereley requesting for it to be handed over, otherwise they will pursue legal action. It's like if you stole my bike, i goto your house prove to you it's my bike and you stole it. I then can ask you to give it back, and if you decline, then I call authorities who will force you to do so.

is that legal? it sounds shady by johnpaul191 · 2004-01-09 08:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

can they really go on the street and actually touch you? can they do anything more than maybe take pictures of you and call the police? NO! in the article the RIAA says they make it clear they are not police and have no power, but they dress up like SWAT... it seems they at least give the impression of having legal authority.

"They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs,"

obviously trying to scare and confuse people into signing over their goods. who knows what else they got them to sign. ugh! It's clear they don't give a crap how the public views them, most companies would not treat their customers like this.

'bout time by Enry · 2004-01-09 08:08 · Score: 5, Interesting

I remember during the DVDCSS trial in NY, the 2600 legal team took reporters about a block away from the courthouse and showed street vendors selling illegal DVDs. The point (at the time) was it was easier and chaper to get an illegal DVD off a street vendor than it was to copy the DVD to your drive and burn it.

That's okay by Joe+the+Lesser · 2004-01-09 08:08 · Score: 4, Funny

I wear a 'Pirate' Jacket when I bust into Borders and grab CDs. Fair's fair.

--
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)

Scary stuff... by strictnein · 2004-01-09 08:08 · Score: 4, Insightful

Hello future, the present is calling

From the article this sounds pretty dispicable:
"The RIAA saw it differently. Figuring the discs were bootlegs, a four-man RIAA squad descended on his stand a few days before Christmas and persuaded the 4-foot-11 Borrayo to hand over voluntarily a total of 78 discs.

"They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs," he said through an interpreter. ...they may all be ex-P.D. Yes, they wear cop-style clothes and carry official-looking IDs. But if they leave people like Borrayo with the impression that they're actual law enforcement, that's a mistake.

With all the trappings of a police team, including pink incident reports that, among other things, record a vendor's height, weight, hair and eye color"

A disgusting case of intimidation. Way to go RIAA, pick on a 4' 11" guy who hardly knows English.

But is this really any suprise? Plenty of companies have their own private police forces (and small private militaries too) and you still can hire your own army if you've go the cash, which many companies do.

This statement goes a little far in my opinion:
"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time."

Which is a polite way of saying: "Those damn shifty Mexicans! They can't be trusted!" You're not the police! If I don't tell you my real name, there's nothing wrong with that, you idiots.

--
Casual Games/Downloads

Re:Scary stuff... by tommy_teardrop · 2004-01-09 08:29 · Score: 3, Interesting

If we dress up as RIAA agents, doesn't that mean we can go round getting a lot of free CD's by intimidating people selling copyright infringed works on the streets, and stealing their products (it would be volunatry, so it's not so much theft as blackmail). We'd never have to buy another CD again.

Why is this any different to what the RIAA did? Oh yes, we would only be impersonating the police by proxy.

--
-- IANAL, BIPOOTV

vigilantes by potpie · 2004-01-09 08:10 · Score: 4, Informative

There is a word for one who takes the law into his/her own hands: vigilante.

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Esoteric reference.

Police Only Please by Marnhinn · 2004-01-09 08:11 · Score: 5, Insightful

It may save tax dollars - but it is a step toward private business enforcing it's own laws. Has anyone read Snowcrash (by Neal Steavenson) where the different parts of the city all have their own rent-a-cops that enforce different laws? I realize that the RIAA is attempting to combat piracy - but they should not be making claims like "They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs..." (from article).

Taking law into your own hands is not something I want to see happen in America - for example some guy starts pulling over speeders that drive by his house, or a store owner shoots two kids that are shoplifting... Simply put I don't trust the RIAA and most private law enforcement agencies. That is why I pay taxes - so I can have a FAIR and UNBIASED bunch of law enforcement.

That said - I think the guy was an idiot for selling pirated stuff and don't support him one bit - it is the tactics that are being used that scare me.

--
There is always a frontier where there is an open and willing mind

Re:Police Only Please by virg_mattes · 2004-01-09 08:24 · Score: 4, Insightful

> Yeah, god forbid people actually be able to protect their own property...Legal or not, I can assure you that anyone caught stealing anything from me would be shot on site. And while I may end up in jail (or not...IANAL) I would be in the right.

You would end up in jail, and you'd belong there. The death penalty for stealing? I'm sure you'd consider it fair when someone puts a bullet in your wife for cutting him off in traffic.

Go away until you can grow up a little.

Virg
Re:Police Only Please by Phillup · 2004-01-09 08:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

Here is how I see it... (IANAL... this is just an opinion... and all the other things that should be painfully obvious...)

The "RIAA Police" just committed a crime. They stole the property of another citizen. And, they may have also committed fraud.

And it also sounds like they threatened battery.

He should take them to court at the very least.

Yes, there is such a thing as a citizen's arrest... but that does not involve confiscation of another's property.

---

Now... did the vendor have illegal goods?

Well... let's just say that isn't the RIAA's call. We have a justice system for that.

That can *ONLY* be determined by due process.

This was not due process.

--

--Phillip

Can you say BIRTH TAX
Re:Police Only Please by BHearsum · 2004-01-09 09:19 · Score: 4, Informative

You are allowed to protect your own property with reasonable force. If someone tries to steal your car, you can perfectly legal pull him out of the car and kick him a few times to keep him down. Shooting the idiot is most obviously going too far.

Here's a case local to me dealing with just this issue: link
Re:Police Only Please by Lordrashmi · 2004-01-09 10:22 · Score: 4, Informative

In Texas it is legal to use lethal force to protect property. If someone trespassing on private property they can be shot. So if at 3 in the morning I hear some crackhead breaking in my house I can use my 12 Gauge.
Re:Police Only Please by sfjoe · 2004-01-09 11:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

Let's make sure the criminals have all the rights and the rest of us just sit back and take it in the ass.

I know you right-wingers won't believe this, but there is actually a middle ground. When the penalty for a crime is relative to the severity of the crime, you have a pretty good system. Shooting people for stealing went out of style a couple centuries back. The Republican party will catch up to modern times any day now.

--
It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.

RIAA the Game by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-09 08:12 · Score: 5, Funny

This would be an awesome game. You are an RIAA agent with the jacket, sunglasses and cool weaponry. Your goal is to destroy all things music related. Dude with an MP3 player walking down street listening to music, Blam, cha ching. etc.

RIAA: Hi, I'm from the RIAA enforcement division. by teamhasnoi · 2004-01-09 08:12 · Score: 4, Funny

Vendor: SAY HELLOW TO MEH LIL' FREN! *BLAM**BLAM*

RIAA: (Hand reaching into sky, as heart is cluched) AHHhhhhggghh!

Random Chick: Ohh Vendor! Let's do it!

This one act play is brought to you by the stale ideas of the MPAA. Thank you.

Good idea, I say we steal it. by Kenja · 2004-01-09 08:12 · Score: 4, Funny

Lets go around in greasy t-shirts and ten years worth on unkeept beard growth (the official uniform of the FSF) kicking down the doors of people who violate the GPL and shout "Freeze scumbags, this is the FSF! Hand over your source code into the public domain and no one gets hurt!".

--

"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"

Seriously by suwain_2 · 2004-01-09 08:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

Is this a joke? I have a hard time believing this, except that I'm worried it's true.

How is this not a mob? Extortion? Impersonating a police officer? Harassment? Vandalism? I'd like to see the people involed with this arrested and held accountable for the numerous felonies they're committing!

--
________________________________________________
suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p

Possible arrest for Impersonating an Officer? by Dukeofshadows · 2004-01-09 08:13 · Score: 5, Interesting

Does anyone else here think that these EX-cops should be brought up on charges of impersonating a police officer and potentially discrimination (80% of their incidents are against Hispanics and the "officer" interviewed had choice words)? And wouldn't that leave the RIAA open up to liability for potential violation of civil rights and false arrest if the "cops" actually put anyone in handcuffs as they are threatening to?

--
As long as there is a Second Amendment, there will always be a First Amendment.

Re:Possible arrest for Impersonating an Officer? by pla · 2004-01-09 08:28 · Score: 5, Funny

wouldn't that leave the RIAA open up to liability for potential violation of civil rights and false arrest if the "cops" actually put anyone in handcuffs as they are threatening to?

Too bad I don't live in LA...

Anyone who does, want to make a few bucks, courtesy of the RIAA?

Find one of these "teams". Follow them around, stepping in to explain to anyone they attempt to bust that they lack any legal power and the vendor can safely ignore them.

Have a friend, staying out of sight, follow you around during all this with a video camera.

When the RIAA rent-a-fake-cops get pissed and beat the crap out of you (since they hire real ex-cops, that shouldn't take too long), congrats, consider yourself set for life from your civil suit.

Best of all, since these guys don't actually count as cops, they can't charge you with interfering in a police investigation (which would almost certainly happen if you tried this on real cops).
Re:Possible arrest for Impersonating an Officer? by bataras · 2004-01-09 10:51 · Score: 4, Funny

Can I be the friend who stays out of sight with the camera while you get your ass kicked?

Sure, they don't want to be portrayed as police. by PurpleFloyd · 2004-01-09 08:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

In the article, the RIAA "enforcers" claim they don't try to create the idea that they're a police force. Why, then, would a victim say that, "They said they were police from the recording industry or something, and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs."?

It's pretty obvious what they're doing - essentially saying that they have the power to arrest and incarcerate private citizens - and they could end up in some serious legal hot water here. There are all sorts of laws against vigilantism and misrepresenting yourself as an officer of the law. I'd say that this could end up as an even bigger PR mistake than attacking grannies and little kids; there, they were (technically) on the right side of the law. Here, they're blatantly violating the law in order to get what they want. I hope they burn.

Note: I'm not a lawyer. If you need one, get one licensed in your jurisidiction; if you've been hassled by these assholes, you definately need a lawyer. As far as I can tell, this would be a slam-dunk case for a first year law student, let alone an experienced litigator.

--

That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.

SOLUTION by Malicious · 2004-01-09 08:15 · Score: 5, Funny

"Hey You in the RIAA Jacket, you're not allowed in my store. You're trespassing. Get out, or I'll call the REAL cops."

End of story.

--
01101001001000000110000101101101001000000110001001 10000101110100011011010110000101101110

Seems to me there's a racist element here... by allism · 2004-01-09 08:16 · Score: 4, Interesting

Did anyone else RTFA far down enough to notice the quote from Langley...

"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."

WTF? THESE PEOPLE? Is it just me or does it seem that these guys are trying to prey on immigrant (illegal or otherwise) fears of police authority?

I'd like to see some sort of study of how many people are out hawking pirated wares, broken down by race, versus the race breakdown for the people the RIAA are busting. I know it doesn't matter because they're not actually imposing any authority, but it would be interesting to see the Hispanic community's reaction to the above quotation, and those numbers.

--
Denver Isuzu Suzuki

Violations by jdavidb · 2004-01-09 08:16 · Score: 5, Interesting

Oh, let's count!

Impersonation of law enforcement personnel (They said they were police from the recording industry or something)
Making threats of force ( and next time they'd take me away in handcuffs,)
Confiscation of property without due process of law
Musica de los 70's y 80's: Morally, if not legally, copyright on music this old should have expired. Given that it's Spanish, the RIAA probably doesn't own the rights, anyway
We notify them that continued sale would be a violation of civil and criminal codes. Nope; copyright is entirely civil law, not criminal (unless the DMCA figures into this somehow).

And this, my friends, is why, no matter how much we hate them, everyone should have the right to hire an attorney. Otherwise you only get the legal rights they tell you you have.

--
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.

A Public Relations Dumb-Ass by thoolihan · 2004-01-09 08:17 · Score: 5, Interesting

"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."

Wow, I hope that quote gets plastered in the paper all around the country. How they let this joker talk to anybody in the press is beyond me. 'These people'... America is not real tolerant of those kinds of statements these days.

-t

--
http://unmoldable.com W:"No one of consequence" I:"I must know" W:"Get used to disappointment"

Re:A Public Relations Dumb-Ass by wondafucka · 2004-01-09 08:49 · Score: 5, Funny

My favorite part is that he said that they are of a Hispanic nature . They could be African, European, Asian, Antarctican, but damn it. There's something terribly hispanic about these damn pirates.

--
postmodernsideshow.com

Wallet Inspector.... by ReadbackMonkey · 2004-01-09 08:17 · Score: 5, Funny

For its part, the RIAA maintains that the up-close-and-personal techniques are nothing new. RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy says its investigators do not represent themselves as police, and that the incident reports vendors are asked to sign, in which they agree to hand over their discs, explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary.

So wait... I can go upto someone with my gang of cronies, wearing gang colours that look like uniforms, claim I'm a wallet inspector, take peoples stuff, and as long as they sign something saying it's voluntary, it's all legal?

I think I found myself a new job

Okay, that's enough... by phillymjs · 2004-01-09 08:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

These RIAA pukes are starting to blur the line between corporation and government.

First they started collected taxes by getting a "you'll probably use these for piracy" fee tacked onto recordable media.

Now they're donning lettered windbreakers to act as law enforcement.

What next, are they going to form their own army and invade Thailand on some WMD (weapons of music duplication) witch hunt??? Where does it end?

~Philly

Sting the RIAA? In a format you know and love! by teamhasnoi · 2004-01-09 08:25 · Score: 3, Interesting

1. Why doesn't some lawyer/concerned citizen hire a Hispanic guy to sell completely legal recordings? Take a loss on them, but present them the same as bootleg sellers.

2. When the RIAA thugs come around, video tape the RIAA taking your legal property.

3. Sue and...Profit!

Try and get some non RIAA music confiscated too. Extra ammo.

Sounds like a wonderful lawsuit to me. We'll call it 'The Shoe is on the Other Foot in your Mouth' case.

hidden agenda by geoff+lane · 2004-01-09 08:27 · Score: 3, Interesting

anyone else noticed that the entire campaign to get new laws to aid their "war" against their customers will result in the STATE paying to investigate and prosecute copyright violations rather than the copyright owner?

Re:hidden agenda by Trailer+Trash · 2004-01-09 08:57 · Score: 3, Interesting

anyone else noticed that the entire campaign to get new laws to aid their "war" against their customers will result in the STATE paying to investigate and prosecute copyright violations rather than the copyright owner?

Yes, we have noticed. When the MPAA was trying to push the SDMCA through the Tennessee legislature last year, we all caught on to the fact that they were simply trying to burden the state with doing investigative work for what would otherwise be a civil action. The language of the bill actually required the DA to investigate and subsequently prosecute (if appropriate) anyone the cable company said was stealing service.

One of our primary oppositions was that we barely have enough cash to run the state as it is, we don't need to find more things to pay for...

--
Do you have ESP?

Here's the most relevant statutes: by Valdrax · 2004-01-09 08:27 · Score: 5, Interesting

California Penal Code, Section 538d.:

538d. (a) Any person other than one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, who willfully wears, exhibits, or uses the authorized uniform, insignia, emblem, device, label, certificate, card, or writing, of a peace officer, with the intent of fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) (1) Any person, other than the one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, who willfully wears, exhibits, or uses the badge of a peace officer with the intent of fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(2) Any person who willfully wears or uses any badge that falsely purports to be authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, or which so resembles the authorized badge of a peace officer as would deceive any ordinary reasonable person into believing that it is authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, for the purpose of fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed two thousand dollars
($2,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(c) Any person who willfully wears, exhibits, or uses, or who willfully makes, sells, loans, gives, or transfers to another, any badge, insignia, emblem, device, or any label, certificate, card, or writing, which falsely purports to be authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, or which so resembles the authorized badge, insignia, emblem, device, label, certificate, card, or writing of a peace officer as would deceive an ordinary reasonable person into believing that it is authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, is guilty of a misdemeanor, except that any person who makes or sells any badge under the circumstances described in this subdivision is subject to a fine not to exceed fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000).

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that wearing uniforms that resemble generic law enforcement uniforms but are not direct imitations of official uniforms is illegal. Basically, if you aren't using a fake badge or a damn good copy of an official police uniform, I think you can get out of this one under California law. Then, there's the US Code to consider:

Sec. 913. - Impersonator making arrest or search

Whoever falsely represents himself to be an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, and in such assumed character arrests or detains any person or in any manner searches the person, buildings, or other property of any person, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both

As long as they're careful not to represent themselves as being a federal employee, they haven't violated this law either. In other words, it's going to be hard to nail them for crimes unless they do something stupid that's not covered under their little "voluntary" contract that people must sign -- so long as said contract holds up in court as not being signed under duress. Considering that the new RIAA head is from the BATF, I'm pretty sure he's savvy about skirting the laws holding back law enforcement officers as much as possible.

--
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").

Re:How to fight the RIAA... if you ever need to by homer_ca · 2004-01-09 08:33 · Score: 4, Interesting

Another thing to check is, does the RIAA even represent the record labels of the CDs he was selling in the article? The guy they busted was selling Spanish music CDs like Como Te Extrano Vol. IV -- Musica de los 70's y 80's. Maybe the CDs were legit or maybe not, but that Mexican record label probably isn't even an RIAA member.

Wow is this an ugly article by Weaselmancer · 2004-01-09 08:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

Here's a few choice quotes:

RIAA:"A large percentage [of the vendors] are of a Hispanic nature," Langley said. "Today he's Jose Rodriguez, tomorrow he's Raul something or other, and tomorrow after that he's something else. These people change their identity all the time. A picture's worth a thousand words."

Racism, anyone?

How about this gem, regarding parading around looking like cops, but not being cops:

RIAA:If that person feels he was wrongly interrogated or under the false pretense that these people were cops, they should contact their local police station as a victim. We'll sort it all out.

Riiiiiiiight. Make sure you have your receipts on you before you try this one, kids.

It used to be fun to tow the Slashdot line and bash the RIAA for being evil...but you know what? They actually are evil. This is some pretty twisted shit. Racial profiling, impersonating the police, harassment, photographing likely suspects...unbelieveable.

Weaselmancer

--
Weaselmancer
rediculous.

Don't tell SCO by litewoheat · 2004-01-09 08:46 · Score: 4, Funny

Lets hope SCO doesn't get any ideas from this...

New Boss, New Tactics by nurb432 · 2004-01-09 09:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

Well, they have the guy from the BATF running the anti-piracy wing now, right?

Expect more of this 'agency-esque' antics....

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

Blam! Blam! by TWX · 2004-01-09 09:03 · Score: 3, Interesting

"I'm all for the taking down of the major bootleggers, but this is utterly criminal. These people have zero authority to enforce any laws, anywhere. It's a PR blitz that will hopefully backfire."

It's a shame that weapons laws in higher-density cities aren't like those in Arizona, where anyone can carry openly, and people can carry concealed with a fairly easy to acquire permit. I could just see a bunch of thugs in RIAA jackets walking up to a street vendor, start harassing him, only to watch the vendor pull out a couple of 9mm's and blow them all away...

Remember, the burden of proof of copyright violation is supposed to be on the copyright holder, and must be proved before a court of law. A bunch of dudes walking up aren't technically allowed to force anything more than a served subpoena.

--
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.

Re:Blam! Blam! by jadavis · 2004-01-09 10:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

First of all, you can't give someone the right to "wave the gun around" without giving them the right to shoot it. This is a practical matter: as soon as a gun is drawn, all bets are off because life is at risk unless the person without the gun is totally submissive, and far away to begin with. Police don't kill people very often because we hold them to a higher standard than a normal citizen. We expect them to be able to fend someone off until it's necessary to kill.

So, if a bunch of people who aren't police officers "raid" you, it wouldn't be out of the question to consider that you were being attacked. And it wouldn't be out of the question to consider that they could kill you, and that this may be your last opportunity to save your life.

If you know you're not in danger, however, it is murder. But if it's a bunch of scary looking people against one guy that has a bunch of cash on him (because he's been selling illegal stuff all day), I don't think the police would ask too many more questions.

As far as public vs. private property, I don't really see how that matters. If you're being mugged on public property, you can still shoot the guy if you think it may save your life. The only indicator is that it is more likely that someone is coming to kill you if they actually trespass, and so deadly force is more easily justified. It's certainly not required, however.

--
Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.

Re:PR Side Effects. by Tassach · 2004-01-09 09:15 · Score: 5, Interesting

Hmmm.. let's see how many crimes these goons are committing:

Impersonating a Police Officer
Robbery
Extortion
False Arrest
Racketeering
Conspiricy to commit all of the above
Deriving profit from an ongoing criminal enterprise (RICO)

Sounds like a nice little list of felonies. Hopefully some civic-minded FBI agent will recognize this for what it is and arrest the RIAA leadership under the RICO act and seize all their (personal and business) assets.

--
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?

I'm going to walk around in the same jacket... by xSterbenx · 2004-01-09 09:32 · Score: 4, Funny

...only mine will say F.U.R.I.A.A

EFF is wrong here by YrWrstNtmr · 2004-01-09 09:34 · Score: 3, Informative

"The process of confiscating bootleg CDs from street vendors is exactly what the RIAA should be doing," said Jason Schultz, a staff attorney for the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF).

No. Confiscation should be left up to the courts. The RIAA should, if it feels it has a valid complaint, report it to the authorities. Confiscation, by a corporation or private individual, should never be allowed. At the point they are doing this, nothing has been proven in a court of law. Due process, people.

Key points... by Cramer · 2004-01-09 10:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

...staff of ex-cops

...Figur[ed] the discs were bootlegs

..."They said they were police from the recording industry or something..."

But if they leave people like Borrayo with the impression that they're actual law enforcement, that's a mistake.

NEGATIVE. That's a FELONY.

oversees ... contractors who sniff out bootleg discs

Apparently without a nose... Did they have any proof other than a hispanic male selling CDs and DVDs from a parking lot booth? They didn't "figure" anything; they blindly assumed guilt based on the person and the place.

the incident reports ... explicitly state that the forfeiture is voluntary

Voluntary my ass! A bunch a dudes dressed and behaving like cops "asking" you to hand over your stuff. Right. And I bet they don't carry any weapons either.

continued sale would be a violation of civil and criminal codes (like it isn't aleady?)

The process of confiscating bootleg CDs from street vendors is exactly what the RIAA should be doing," said Jason Schultz

Wrong, Mr. Schultz. RIAA is not a law enforcement division. They have no more right than any other citizen to "confiscate" another persons property.

Re:PR Side Effects. by falconed · 2004-01-09 10:07 · Score: 4, Insightful

(IAAP - I Am A Programmer - easier to type than IANAL, etc.)
Assuming what they are doing is illegal, it seems like Barrayo would have to "contact [his] local police station as a victim" for them to take action against the RIAA.

It sounds like they're mainly targeting hispanics; what are the odds they're only targeting illegal aliens (which isn't to say all hispanics are illegal aliens, but that Mexico isn't terribly far from LA, so it's probably safe to say many of the illegal aliens in that area are hispanic). If Barrayo or the others are illegal aliens, I think "[contacting] their local police station" is the last thing they want to do.

That aside, do the laws you mentioned (impersonating a police officer, etc.) even apply to illegal aliens? Maybe the RIAA is more intelligent than we think.

Now for the obligatory Family Guy quote:
"Oh you speak english?"
"No, just that sentence and this one explaining it."
"You're kidding, right?"
"Que?"

--
USE='clever' emerge -u sig

RIAA prob doesn't represent artists confiscated by gbnewby · 2004-01-09 10:13 · Score: 4, Interesting

The RIAA is a membership organization. Their member list is online (it looks like a lot, but in fact most entries are labels that are owned by fewer than a dozen major media publishers).

They might have a contractual basis for enforcing copyright violations by their member organizations (i.e., Sony and Warner). The have NO basis for enforcing copyright violations by other publishers.

For the RIAA jack-booted thugs to enforce for labels or artists they don't represent is the same as you or I enforcing, on behalf of someone else. There's just no basis. Under the copyright law (US Title 17 USC, it's the infringed party that needs to pursue action -- not ANY party, and generally not even law enforcement (at least for garden variety copyright infringement....the feds get called in for fraud, for when banks are involved, and other cases).

In the LA Times article, the only title specifically mentioned was some sort of Latino hits from the 70s and 80s. Chances are that material is not represented by the RIAA. At a community radio station I worked with, the music directors decided not to put any RIAA member music on the play list. Know what? It turned out 80% was not, already! The other 20% wasn't painful at all - it was just a matter of putting it on another shelf, rather than the playlist shelf.

In short, there is a LOT of music that is not represented by the RIAA (a far higher proportion than video that's not represented by the MPAA). They have no business getting involved in any kind of enforcement action for artists or labels they don't have a relationship with.

Wrong Target by Zepalesque · 2004-01-09 10:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

This drives me nuts. People, remember who you are bashing. The RIAA is just a front for media companies that don't want their images tarnished.

This is a list of RIAA members

Remember - they *want* you to be upset at the RIAA. It is a convenient way to keep your attention focused on an antagonist, rather than the companies that it is backed by.

Re:America = fascist police state by fishbowl · 2004-01-09 10:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

>I was just wondering when this would start
>happening.

I'll tell you exactly when it STOPS happening. When they try an illegal tactic like this against a person with the most vague clue, I don't know, like maybe they've seen an episode of COPS or Judge Judy?

"What police department did you say you were with?"

"Can you show me that search warrant again?"

"I'll need you to contact my attorney if you want any further information."

"Am I free to leave?"

"You won't mind if I just call the regular police and get their opinion about your offer to use handcuffs on me, right?"

"How about you step off my property right this minute, and I won't prosecute you for trespassing?"

***ANYTHING*** other than "here is all my property, please take it, and don't even leave me your card....

If nothing else, make them forcibly take your property, then you have a simple case of robbery, maybe armed robbery depending on how your state regards the weapon status handcuffs.

Hell you don't even give your property to the police when they arrest you on a felony, without a reciept and clear paperwork.

If you get taken by crooks, RIAA jacket or no RIAA jacket, you need to use some common sense and you also need to seek recourse to the law immediately.

--
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.

counterattack possibilities by dbc001 · 2004-01-09 10:45 · Score: 3, Interesting

First of all, is anyone interested in keeping track of where this stuff is happening? I'd like to see a website that tells where these people are operating and where they are doing their raids. I'd be glad to crack some heads over this sort of thing. If the mafia comes to my town, I'll be swingin' a baseball bat till they leaves.

It would also be fun to set up a fake piracy ring selling legit CDs that appear to be pirated and "entrap" the RIAA - it would be pretty easy to provoke them into saying something that would get them into a lot of trouble: "Are you guys with the governement?" "Are you guys cops?" I'm sure that with a few carefully worded questions they would say yes. Just make sure you start the video camera at the right moment...

Hmm what's to stop me by Grimster · 2004-01-09 11:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

from getting an 'official looking' jacket with RIAA on it, an "id" and busting a street vendor myself and scoring some free cd's? Well what's to stop me other than the fact I'm a lazy git.

Last I checked "impersonating an RIAA employee" is not illegal or breaking any law I'm aware of, and if they give you their stuff voluntarily it's not stealing.

It'd be FUNNY as heck to hear of fake RIAA agents busting vendors like this...

--
--- www.f-theocean.com

Spotlight Combat by sPaKr · 2004-01-09 11:11 · Score: 3, Insightful

There is a very easy way to stop this. We need to relize that the RIAA-police force are just a bunch of hired private thugs. That said they can not represent themselfs as police officers. So I suggest we start a spot light compaiegn. We should hangout where they work, and follow them as they do their job.. perfectly legal. Then we publicly and loudly heckle them as they attempt to raid, at the same time we inform the victums that they are victums and call the real police, say the victum belived these were some kind of police officers and file a report that leads to a complaint as impersonatinting an officer. Nothing stops unpopular vigilatism faster then a large public glare.

Here is what they may be doing... by That's+Unpossible! · 2004-01-09 11:20 · Score: 3, Informative

...and it is legal.

I see many on here saying it is illegal for them to take the property of someone else. Not necessarily. My brother works with a very popular rock band. One of the other guys with them obtains -- I believe from a local judge in the city of the venue they are playing -- a legal order that allows the band to confiscate any unlicensed merchandise with the band's name or logo on it, as well as bootlegged CD's.

My guess is the RIAA street team has a similar document or legal backing to do the same thing. /don't shoot the messenger

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Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.

Wow, can Anybody do this? by serutan · 2004-01-09 12:04 · Score: 4, Funny

"The process of confiscating bootleg CDs from street vendors is exactly what the RIAA should be doing," said Jason Schultz, a staff attorney for the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF).

Jason, excuse me but are you fucking nuts??? Civilians should confiscate property because they think it's illegal, not call the cops and report it stolen, but just take it? And you are an actual attorney?????

I believe that's my big-screen TV you've got there in your living room, Jason. I'll be right over to pick it up.

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RIAA Takes the Fight to the Streets

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