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Israel v. Microsoft, Next Round

hodet writes "From Haaretz.com, in predictable fashion, looks like a little tough bargaining with Microsoft is all that is needed to get your way. As many predicted after this story, looks like all you have to do is threaten to move to an OSS alternative to make them relent. Maybe it's time to stop getting excited about every little announcement that comes out." The upshot of the story is that Microsoft is willing to split the components of Office in order to sell it to the Israeli government's Finance Ministry. Reader blunte, though, links to a story that discounts the importance of MS's move: "Israel re-iterates: No More MS Software. This is round two. MS has made an effort to reconcile with Israel, and Israel still says No. Israel govt's purchases account for 3-4% of MS Israel's annual revenue."

18 of 464 comments (clear)

  1. downturn for M$? by SHEENmaster · · Score: 5, Funny

    First they hit their first flat quarter, and then Israel tells them to fuck off. Next thing you know, some fat pervert in a butterfly suit will be without a job.

    --
    You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
  2. Split the components of Office? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    On the box they used to be shaped like jigsaw puzzle pieces, it can't be hard to separate them.

    1. Re:Split the components of Office? by Haeleth · · Score: 5, Funny

      Microsoft dumps a vat of tar to keep their's together.

      No, Microsoft would never use tar. They use a proprietary file format called CAB.

  3. I Like This by jmt9581 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's good to see Israel encouraging competition (from the Yahoo Article:

    "Seeking to cut costs, the Finance Ministry recently said it would not purchase new software from Microsoft this year.

    It also said it would encourage the development of lower-priced alternatives. To that end, it is cooperating with Sun Microsystems (NasdaqNM:SUNW - News) and IBM (NYSE:IBM - News) to design a Hebrew language version of OpenOffice software, a freely distributed open-source alternative to Office."


    After all of the anticompetitive and unethical behavior that we've seen out of Microsoft, I think that they deserve this. Especially after their I'm glad that Israel is standing firm on this. Netscape may be dead, but perhaps we've learned some lessons on how to effectively deal with an unethical monopoly.

    --

    My blog

  4. still no hebrew support in MS Office for mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    This was another of Israel's recent problems with microsoft. MS wouldn't implement it even when they offered to pay.

    1. Re:still no hebrew support in MS Office for mac by Derivin · · Score: 5, Informative

      There are plenty of other languages which read left to right and are supported like Arabic. There are harder asian languages supported: Korean, Japanese, and the worst Chinese.
      Mac OSX supports Hebrew. The real issue is cost, not ease. Working for a speech/language company, it is the total cost of a product, not how hard it is to develop that kills most projects like this.
      We dropped Japanese, not because it was hard (the product was complete and japanese had been done in previous versions). It was dropped because the salary for QA, support, management, OEM sales chain, advertising, and maintanance were just too high. There was very little reuse of staff due to the language, a QA engineer who does not know Japanese (Hebrew) isn't going to be any help. One more language means one more product in the release schedual, which extends the time it takes to make releases and move on to developing the next new killer feature.
      What incentive does MS really have? Some small % of the 4% of their sales in a country (This is Mac specific, not all %4 is Mac). It's a big drop in the bucket, but its not enough to pay for all those people and the potential for derailment of other projects. What is the potential to sell this 'feature' to recoup the cost? HEbrew on Mac Office? Very little to none I'd guess.

      No, its not because its 'hard' (and I doubt its that). It's cost verses potential profit. When looking for a reason, look to money first.

  5. Software Sales Cycle by SpinningAround · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Having worked on the sales side of the house for a couple of big enterprise software companies, I find it interesting that Microsoft are now very publically having to do what the rest of the enterprise software industry has done for a long time.. sell software when and how customers want it.

    All CIOs know it... don't buy 'till the last week of the quarter, suddenly discover an alternative solution at the last minute, wheel out competitor's products, competitor's salesguys, consultants and competitor. Beat that software vendor to death.

    Must be hard being a Microsoft enterprise rep or sales consultant these days. I am sure they are thoroughly sick of hearing the words 'Linux', and 'Open Source' at every sales meeting they attend.

    Not that I feel terribly sorry for them mind you...

  6. Greater market at indirect risk by michael_cain · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Israel govt's purchases account for 3-4% of MS Israel's annual revenue.

    Of course, in the somewhat longer term, losing that 3-4% of the market will put pressure on the remainder of their sales in Israel. I'm sure that there will be a lot of businesses that will need to communicate with the government electronically. If MS Word and similar file formats can no longer be assumed to be correctly readable by government employees, then businesses will start shifting to software that produces files/attachments that they know can be read properly.

  7. Re:The Right. The Drama(TM) by CrankyFool · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You're quite likely kidding, but it's actually an interesting question.

    We've seen cases before where American aid to Israel was structured in such a way as to encourage it to purchase stuff from America companies rather than do things itself; one example of this was the Galil -- Israel designed and manufactured a pretty damn fine assault rifle, but then found that the money coming from the US was structured such that it was much, much cheaper to just buy M16s.

    Now, mind you, that's probably influenced by the huge brib^H^H^H^Hcontributions defense companies give the government, and I don't think M$ contributes quite *that* much, but we're not very far away from a situation where, say, the next appropriations bill to support Israel has $X million for software purchases from US firms.

    (Oh, and I was born and raised Israeli, have lived in the US since 1985, prefer Unix and am writing this on a WinXP laptop. My loyalties are all over the place :) )

  8. Re:Something dangerous to say on /. by Jason+Earl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The funny thing about office suites is that it doesn't really matter what you like, what matters is what everyone else uses. For example, I still think that WordPerfect is the best word processor I have ever used. However, you can't email WordPerfect documents to people and expect them to be able to read them, and so I spend a lot of time using MS Word.

    That's why deals like the Israeli government are so important. If Sun can win over the Israeli government to StarOffice then within a year or so every single Israeli business is going to have a copy of StarOffice (or OpenOffice.org) installed on one of their computers so that they can use StarOffice formats for correspondence with the government. Everyone ends up having to talk to the government, and you can bet that if the government switches office suites that is going to have a big impact on the rest of the Israeli market.

    Microsoft is going to have to switch tactics sooner or later. Right now Microsoft uses the fact that their formats are a de-facto standard to tie businesses to their upgrade treadmill. However, the days when Microsoft can walk into a business and dictate terms are over, and frankly, that's good for everyone. I have never thought that Microsoft was a monopoly, but I am glad to see them get a little competition.

  9. Re:Standing their ground by Saven+Marek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whatever happens, it's good to see that at least someone is standing fast against the Microsoft juggernau

    What will be better is the result of this standing fast. Until recently, the FUD of "Linux is actually pricier than MS in the long run" didn't have a great deal of examples to look at to disprove it.

    If, in 2 years, the entire israeli government is still using OSS, hasn't paid license fees, is upgrading as they need and patching as they need, from open source solutions, and finds it's a saving, that's a very demontratable large scale deployment that screams out...

    "It Worked Here"

    Israel's standing fast and adopting the full open source solution will make it easier for other countries and companies to find an excuse to stand fast.

    nude macgirl webcams

  10. Re:According to the article... by optikSmoke · · Score: 5, Funny
    ...this is probably standard practice for large Microsoft contracts.

    Indeed, and it goes like this:

    MS: So, we're going to sell you our lock-in software at inflated prices because you obviously have no other alternative; then be prepared for a mandatory accelerating upgrade cycle combined with price hikes.

    Customer: So.... we were thinking maybe of using open-source softw-

    MS: We can do software individually wrapped with gold foil and a complementary kiss on the ass.

    Customer: SOLD!

  11. They make SOME good products by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Windows is easy to use, that's true. But other people have made easier to use products before - OS X of course in recent memory, and in the past there have been others..

    Office is OK (I even have Office X for the Mac which I prefer to the PC versions), but frankly although each part of office has a lot of features, I would not call any of them great. For straight-up word processing, I much prefer the version of Wordperfect I used to use in college to Word, any version. And for DTP (where you are trying to position elements exactly) Word is pretty much useless.

    That's the problem lots of people have with Microsoft - Almost all of Microsoft products are simply OK. There are none that I think of that are so nice to use I find them pleasant. There are plenty of non-Microsoft products that I find very pleasant indeed - like Photoshop. And let's talk about Photoshop for a moment - somehow that remains a huge success despite most major graphical file formats (like TIF or JPG) being totally open specs. Word relies heavily on dominance exactly because no-one can exactly get reading/writing Word files correct.

    In other words, Microsoft usually leads based on a strategy of ignorance, whereas other companies (like Adobe) manage to lead through competence.

    In that respect I would disagree with your comment about Microsoft simply producing better and cheaper products being the reason they pull ahead. To some extent this is true, but the missing factor that makes it work is that they use any means possible to make sure everyone is using their stuff and not anyone else's, then by keeping data-interchange fixed to work best in Microsoft products they gain a huge leverage that is almost impossible to overcome. Almost impossible - luckily for everyone the slow adoption rate of various versions of Office has meant there has been time to decode the file format and make other word-processing and office suite options a reality.

    The way for Microsoft to compete would be to give away copies of the latest version of Office for free, essentially hitting the resent button on the market and making everyone have to play file-format catchup again. But even that might not work well as there are still so many people on older versions of the OS that Office does not support, they might not gain traction even if free.

    If Microsoft truly had a product based on quality and price, then Open Office would be no threat. As it is you have an army of users literally chomping at the bit for some other option. How good of a userbase can that be?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  12. Israel is just the start by Whammy666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not just other goverments, but probably big corporate users as well. Let's face it, Israel is a drop in the bucket in terms of revenue to M$. But if big business decided to follow Israel's lead, M$ could find themselves in a full-scale user revolt. It's not like M$'s licensing, pricing policies and marginal quality hasn't ruffled a few feathers along the way.

    Even worse for M$ is that it would be a high-profile win and an effective endorsement for OSS which could tip the balance for potential OSS users sitting on the fence waiting to see if OSS really does provide a viable alternative to M$.

    --
    When all else fails, run.
  13. Re:I wonder if... by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Funny
    What were Israel's specific complaints against MS?

    Israeli policy is never to negotiate with terrorists.

  14. It will accelerate by RoLi · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Microsoft has a problem.

    They sell to a saturated market and need to grow earnings to maintain their stock-price.

    Because Microsoft no longer gets new customers, actually they are starting to lose customers, the only way to raise earnings is to squeeze out more of existing customers locked in.

    Their new licensing programme is doing exactly that and is just the start.

    The irony is that only the Microsoft-loyal customers are getting ripped off, while customers who haven't bought into MS-technologies (and run servers on Unix) like for example Munich get huge offers for discounts.

    However with rising licensing costs, the incentive to move away also rises, so I don't think Microsoft can play that game much longer. Very soon their earnings will begin to fall. Either because they lose just too many customers or because they will have no other choice other than to lower prices.

  15. Re:I wonder if... by stesch · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Israel is in the middle of a severe budget crunch. That's encouraging the government to look for ways to cut costs.

    Peace would be a start.

  16. Re:That's only insightful if... by madpierre · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In a related thing I read recently in Linux Format #49 (pg 102).

    MS offered a $2000 discount on MSOffice software to Schoolnet Nambia
    only to make them fork out $9000 for Win XP.

    SNNs' director told MS (i'm paraphrasing) to f*** off and is sticking
    with open source software.

    www.linuxformat.co.uk

    --
    siggy played guitar