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U.S. Indicts Saudi Student For Website Contents
An anonymous reader writes "A student ( studying for his doctorate) has been charged by the U.S. government for setting up a website, moderating a email list listing it as 'material support' for the terrorist. How fine is the line between First Amendment rights and 'material support'?"
If he really is raising funds, then the First Amendment has nothing to do with this.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Of course, the student is innocent until proven guilty [unlike in his native land] and the article was fairly light on facts. But, long story short, if the charges are true, then there is no first amendment issue to consider.
I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
18 pages of Grand Jury charges in US v. al-Hussayen(pdf)
The nice thing (for governments) is that hardly anyone would know what the messages were about even if we could see them, and anyone translating them differently than the government can just be labeled terrorist.
How can you ever know the truth with these things?
Are you now or ever have been a member of a student organization -- Wall Street Journal | May 29, 2003
That's why people in this rural university town were so surprised on Feb. 26, when Federal Bureau of Investigation agents arrived before dawn in unmarked vehicles at Mr. Hussayen's home to arrest him. The agents rousted him from bed and took him away in handcuffs. Over the next two days, most members of the campus MSA, which Mr. Hussayen formerly headed, were interrogated about their immigration status, extracurricular activities and views of the U.S...
Homeland Defense is protecting you by getting rid of *dangerous* women and children
The wife [..] says she'll voluntarily leave the United States within 120 days. The decision by Maha Al-Hussayen put an end to the government's attempts to deport her and her children. Al-Hussayen's attorney says she made the decision after she was threatened with jail and several character witnesses became too intimidated to testify on her behalf. She must leave by March 6th.
This guy had a *glowing* GPA in grad school here and here
Sami Omar Al-Hussayen, a Saudi national working on his computer science doctoral degree, quietly moved his student office from the Computer Science Department into the school's engineering isotope lab, apparently without his adviser's knowledge, according to the documents.
Al-Hussayen moved into the engineering lab while he was under surveillance by agents assigned to the Inland Northwest Joint Terrorism Task Force, the documents say. Surveillance teams determined Al-Hussayen primarily used the engineering isotope lab after hours.
And 4 other people you DIDN'T hear about
With freedom comes responsibility...
With Freedom of Speech comes the responsibility of knowing what NOT to say.
Saying that one wishes death on the president is against the law. So you're not free to say just anything.
In a time of war if you start propogating sensative information, you will be charged with treason and executed. So you're not free to tell people what you want.
You are free within limits. Its like, you're free to drive as fast as you want, just not over a certain limit. You're free to go where you want, so long as you do not trespass. You're free to do what you want, so long as you do not infringe on other people's rights and such.
The whole freedom of speech thing comes becomes paradoxical when you speak out against the US as a whole. I'm all for speaking out against parts of our government, but when you say "The US (as a whole) sucks! and I'm free to say that if I want." Aren't you denouncing the country that gives you such a right? How can it suck then? Sure, you're free to disagree with certain aspects. But when you burn the US flag, aren't you then saying that you reject the US and its rights???
Oh you aren't? So obviously there is something about this country that you find pleasing...
The whole thing about freedom comes back to, you're free to do what you want, as long as you dont cross the line. By aiding those who wish harm on the US, that's breaking the law.
Of course, the media doesn't have time to RTFI(ndictment).
The indictment says this guy was on a student visa and while he was here we was helping Islamic non-for-profits that have ties to terrorist groups. Student visas are for studying, not running websites for non-for-profits.
The charges are all immigration violations which say he lied when he signed this immigration applications. Making false statements to the US is a crime. The government alleges he lied because he knew he his visa wouldn't be approved with accurate statements of his work for these not-for-profits.
My father is a blogger.
The Supreme court already has decided where the line between free speech and controllable behavior is, and it comes when you start throwing money around. Raising money for a cause is not totally free speech. This is why we are able to have campaign finance laws.
In case you havn't been paying attention for the last two years, the US has been shutting down groups who raise money for terrorists left and right.
Free speech is nice, but not when it is used to kill people, or to attempt to kill people or to encourage people to kill people.
Hate to play devils advocate, but if its ok to talk about war, its ok to talk about hate speech, there is no difference. Unless you are giving direct orders, with times, dates with specific plans of attack, it should be free speech. Telling people to support a cause, even if it is bloody should be free speech. When you tell people they can't support a cause by using hate crime/terrorism laws, its censorship and a tool to enforce political and moral values.
And reading the charges in the indictment, it basically says he ran the IANA (Islamic Assembly of North America) and a bunch of sites and even some net radio stations. One of his sites a webblog, someone posted instructions about suicides by bombing aircraft, he owns the site, this means hes the ring leader. And since there are large number of payments (over 3 million dollars) to members of IANA by supporting countries, Cairo, Egypt, Montreal, Canada, Riyadh, Saudia Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan, that further supports hes a terrorist. And he didnt list IANA on his VISA applications for school, so he must have lied. (He only listed ACM & IEEE)
Sounds like the fed's are regularly reading the weblogs to check for such action. 1 post from someone doesn't make IANA a terrorist group. But I suspect the person who did the post, did it from outside America. (If not, wouldnt Homeland security go after the poster?)
I think this guy is fucked, with so little fall guys these days, this looks like a win for homeland security. "We Got another one!". And top it off, hes not an American, so he has no free speech rights.
But I'm playing office chair politics, I dont have any more facts that whats in the indictment, which doesn't read all that above board for the USA. They only listed 1 post about terrorism, and its from someone else.
BTW, Glad I'm an American and I can still post abo
Z)FX($@#-
[NO CARRIER]
Ever wonder why people don't like america ?
Disclaimer: I am not attacking you, or your country, I am voicing an opinion that is not entirely mine but a mixture of many people, rather than modding me down , reply with valid and thought provoking responces. Many of my friends are American , every american person I have met has been a nice/good person.
America driven by fear now spys on/raids arabs living in America just incase they bomb someone.
Americans fear anyone even themselves, their neighbours and their children (metal detectors in schools?).
better watch out this guy criticises america too. oh wait he is American. America is in the middle of a witch hunt. America always seems to be in a witch hunt somewhere tehy have been since the witch hunts. ( and I'm not saying they don't catch the odd "witch") but when they get innocent bystanders well, often the bystanders and their family dislikes the USA as a country and a people (will this man's deported wife and kids love america or hate america for taking away their daddy).
The USA's fear of the reds over in russia (those dang com u nasts) caused the USA/CIA to train Bin Laden. oops now we fear Bin Laden.....
This Nut case (Bin Laden) and hate monger (I have no love for him) is using anti-US sentimint to gather a literal army of american hating terrorists.
So now Bush JR invades Iraq (a Country diametricaly opposed to terrorism, yet their ex-boss didn't like the US) so america invades and kills alot of them an loses american servicemen at an alarming rate. Whoever comes to power in iraq (lets hope he's better than the last US supported leader there) will leave some people there ostracised and Blaming the USA. why did america invade there ? fear ? because Sadam didn't say he condemed the (9/11) bombers. america feared he might attack next... and invaded with no proof. well maybe GWB made some up.
Maybe this is a rant, but maybe america should reach for an olive branch before they reach for their Colt M4s.
as an aside if I was to say (and I'm not) "Drop dead Bush" - is this under america's laws planning regicide ?
If he's being accused of these, then I see no problem.
Sorry, but I don't want to live in a country where people can yell "Fire" in a crowded theater without consequences.
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2B1ASK1
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Doesn't mention citizenship. Many rights in the Bill of Rights apply to all people, not simply citizens.
Are you under the impression that the bill of rights and constitution does not apply to foreigners in the United States? While deportation is commonly used to solve problems with foreigners breaking laws in the USA, even this process is not without due process. If the government decides not to deport but instead to prosecute, the rights outlined in the bill of rights and constitution extend to the accused. While President Bush has been asserting the power to prosecute foreigners outside the constitution, the power will likely be overturned when cooler heads prevail in Congress and the Supreme Court. Just as we look at Japanese detention camps during WWII with shame, I sincerely hope that one day we look back at the actions of this administration with the same shame. The president isn't God and universal rights are just that: universal.
Don't get me wrong - it's not free speech to raise money to kill us. It's just that equal protection under the law is kind of fundamental in the USA, and we should respect that.