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Microsoft Soft-Pedals Dialup

Posted by timothy on from the where-the-money-isn't dept.

twitter writes "The NYT reports Bill Gates surrender of dial-up Internet access. 'We stayed in the access business for a while, and then we decided it wasn't for us.' $314 million in advertising yielded $300 million in losses last year." Microsoft's dialup service isn't disappearing, but the company is scaling it back and ending the expensive marketing campaign. This leaves exactly how many big players in the dialup market? Dialup is still the only option in many places.

23 of 278 comments (clear)

  1. MSN causes its own downfall by lithiumfox · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of my friends used MSN for 1 year after his 6 month trial period was over because the software that Microsoft put on his computer had exploits. He had free quality dial-up service without even paying a dime. If this one person is able to figure out this exploit, imagine how many other people are doing this. MSN loses money because it can't protect against illicit use.

    1. Re:MSN causes its own downfall by Erratio · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I actually came across a possibly similar situation where someone was using MSN without knowing their password. It appeared as though the connection to the Internet was established without authentication, and then you were supposed to login to the MSN network, but if you didn't you could minimize that window and continue to use the Internet.

      --
      I don't try to be right, I just try to make people think
    2. Re:MSN causes its own downfall by spinflip · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wouldnt say "loses money because it can't protect against illicit use.", it loses far more through other avenues.

      --
      http://sflip.com
  2. We Don't Need No Stinkin' Big Players by illuminata · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This leaves exactly how many big players in the dialup market? Dialup is still the only option in many places.

    They're not necessary. Just get a box and a good connection, a little bit of equipment, and some local phone numbers and you're set. The costs to set one up and manage one are rather cheap. It's a smart first business to run in a rural area.

    --


    Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
  3. AOL... by Raynach · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Really, how does AOL make any money? They run their connection out of this innately slow program, they charge the price of broadband in some places, and it overall just sucks. I called AOL customer service one time to ask why I was getting a lot of signal interruptions, and the answer I got was "change your access numbers". I had done this many times before, and told the servicewoman so, but, no, it'll work this time, because she told me to do it.

    Is the real reason AOL makes money is because the masses don't know better? That you can check your email, IM people, AND browse the web outside the safety of AOL's little memory hog?

    Sorry about my rant... I just have a lot of angst about these people.

    --
    - A
    1. Re:AOL... by SurgeonGeneral · · Score: 3, Interesting

      AOL grew out of the BBS era when everyone phoned very small boards that had created their own interface to access the internet. Many people on here will remember calling 10 node boards to check their email, use gopher or post on Usenet.

      AOL is a remnant of that era, still offering its own interface to access the web even though its entirely unnecessary. But people like that, people like the boundaries AOL places because the internet can be a scary, confusing place and they simply arent interested and dont have the time to stick their heads out into the abyss. That BBS feel is something people liked in the 80s and still like today.

      But remember, the AOL bbs also has an access number at just about every major city in North America. If you own more than one home or travel a lot, you recognize this as being advantageous.

      But AOL simply did it better than the rest of the hybrid BBS-Internet companies. They printed up millions of CDs and found a way to get at least one to every person with a computer. Now they have a customer base of 90 million people and its very hard to compete with their brand leverage. Hell, through all the years of Microsoft Hegemoney they went with Netscape on an Internet Explorer dominated operating system (because Netscape also adds to the feel of offering AOL's own user interface).

      And now, do you even get any AOL CDs anymore? When is the last time you heard an AOL CD joke? AOL is standard on all computers and comes bundled with tons of software. To a new computer user AOL is often more obvious than MSN simply because of the brand power.

      I am not sure what you're angry about.
      Its just the way it is.

      --
      -- "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains." Jean Jacques Rousseau
    2. Re:AOL... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I know two groups of people who love AOL, and swear by it, and don't want to give it up.

      One group are families. They like the parental controls a lot. The kids like it because their friends are there. A lot of it, no doubt, is branding. Being on AOL is cool in the same way that wearing the right clothes is cool.

      The other group is gay guys. I have a friend who gets laid all the time from his AOL account. Apparently the AOL chatrooms are a very good place to meet guys for casual sex.

      Both groups are primarily attracted by the user communities. The people they want to talk to are on AOL, and it's easier and cleaner to be on AOL yourself.

      And both groups are reasonably well served by AOL technically. AOL gives parents the controls they need to feel comfortable letting their kids go on the service.

      And the give the guys cruising for sex things like multiple peronnas, solid chat software, a searchable profile system, the ability to see if the guy you emailed has read your letter, etc.

      It's true that you can get parental controls elsewhere, and that you can chat elsewhere, and that you can use AIM to chat. But if you go with AOL it's all in one package, it works well, and you're right in there with all the other people you want to be with.

      I'm old, I hate IM'ing and chatting, and none of the stuff they offer is useful to me.

      I don't trust them with my credit card, and I remember horror stories from a few years back about versions of AOL that would break your other net connections, or about people who couldn't get them to stop charging their credit cards after they quit.

      I read geek web sites and political blogs, listen to streaming audio, and have an email address under a domain that belongs to me. AOL doesn't offer anything extra to me, and can't even do what I need (ie., let me use my own email address).

      But a lot of people enjoy it -- more power to them. My gay friend says that meeting one guy more than justifies a year's worth of AOL, and he meets several.

      I, a straight guy with no social life, am going to tell him not to run AOL?

      Or I'm supposed to tell my friends with kids that they should get rid of AOL, and face a mutinity at home, because their kids deseprately want to use AOL?

      What do I care what other people run? Or what they should want? Who am I to call their choices stupid? They want what they want, and I want what I want. Live and let live. The world is big enough for all of us.

  4. Remember... by IgD · · Score: 0, Interesting

    In 1992, I had a US Robotics Courier V.Everything modem that cost $500. I had to purchase a 16650 UART chip for my serial port to get high speed transfers. It seemed like a lot of software was still distributed on 3.5" disks. Fast forward 12 years later to 2004. After all that time, modems run at exactly the same speed. V.92(?) was fast when the 386 and 486 were kings but not any more.

  5. Plug: Dial-Up isn't dead! by Christianfreak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    http://wavetex.com/

    The dial-up is nation-wide. The wireless is expanding but its just in East Texas at the moment.

    Disclaimer: Yes I do work for these people, so buy something and help pay my salary :)

    In all seriousness I see this as a good thing. Smaller companies selling dial-up to local areas is usually cheaper and have much better service. Sometimes they even know what they are doing and usually their customers become a bit more savy than they would on AOL or MSN.

    --
    The Anti-Blog
  6. I'm not dead yet... by cicatrix1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Microsoft's dialup service isn't disappearing, but the company is scaling it back and ending the expensive marketing campaign. This leaves exactly how many big players in the dialup market? Dialup is still the only option in many places.

    You can survive without advertising. IMHO, most people who aren't very knowledgable in this area (I.E. someone who would have to choose between AOL or "something else") are more prone to be persuaded by word of mouth anyway. Also, I wouldn't bet against the fact that there are probably some parts of the world where MS has a "monopoly" (for lack of a better term =/ )on the local dialup market anyway.

    --

    I know more than you drink.
  7. $300 Million for Ads ... by Sonic+McTails · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... and not a single one in New York, one of the largest cities in the US.

    --
    This signature was left intentionally blank.
    1. Re:$300 Million for Ads ... by Fnkmaster · · Score: 2, Interesting
      About a year ago or so I was assaulted by a pack of 50 or 60 rollerskating fruitcakes all dressed up in the MSN butterfly outfit, carrying signs with such witty slogans as "it's better with the butterfly". They were creating a nuisance on the sidewalks all around Lincoln Center - I think this was for the launch of MSN8 or something.


      I think they lost themselves any potential customers they might have had in the neighborhood that day.

  8. Who Needs "Big Players"? by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    > This leaves exactly how many big players in
    > the dialup market?

    None at all, I hope. "Big players" differ from small ones only in advertising (more) and quality (less). And none of them have ever offered service in my area despite their lies about nationwide service.

    > Dialup is still the only option in many places.

    I wouldn't be able to afford anything else anyway.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  9. Alternatives... by hendridm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Get unlimited for far less or start your own ISP!

  10. Re:Whoops, there goes my town's big employer. by JediDan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Funny...
    That's how we fix all our problems where I work. Difference is it's part of our allowed answers. Our software sucks so we set people up with outleak express and a dun connection and that fixes 99% of all issues.

    --
    - Dan
  11. EarthLink/India/Philippines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was a manager at Earthlink, in the Web Services Department. We had some kick-ass programmers there. Unfortunately, although our cool boss, Ranbir Chawla, from India, was a very good designer and coder too, he in turn reported to a backstabbing Hollywood special effects monster named Veronica Murdock.

    Veronica liked to appoint pretty girls to management status, bypassing the very talented software engineers. Veronica's idiots kept forcing stupid designs down our throats.

    Then she'd boast about how her EarthLink stock and options were worth hundreds of millions of dollars (which they were, once). Her boss, in turn, a former banker pretty-boy, was pure PR, no technical know-how.

    Fortunately, the VP and Exec VP screwed up a release of Webmail so badly that two million people's email in-boxes got lost, duplicated, or otherwise chewed.

    So Sky Dayton, then CEO, canned the fools. Then, when EarthLink's stock value plunged after the Mindspring "merger", the VP and Exec VP had used their stock as collateral on other market plays. We hope they lost everything.

    Anyway, it was always EarthLink's secret strategy to peel away AOL and MSN subscribers, using them as a farm system, and giving the more sophisticated users to earthLink, which admitted that this strategy doomed EarthLink to always being #2 or #3 in dialup subscribers. But EarthLink would have lower "churn" and thus make a profit.

    Anyway, all my techie friends at EarthLink lost their jobs when EarthLink outsourced to bangalore and the Philippines. The "Customer Support" people work from phone scripts; they know nothing.

    But that's the answer. If MSN gives up, EarthLink will be #2 to AOL. And all three suck, in different styles, anyway.

    Anybody know where Ranbir Chawla (good guy, though probably Asperger's) or Veronica Murdock (pure Evil, dressed for Success) have gone to? Inquiring minds want to know. Just post your answer here...

  12. Re:decentralization of acess is fine by me. by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "What incentive do these big players have to block music downloads?"

    How about legal? regardless of whether its legal or not now, if theres a law making it illegal only the ISP's with N thousands of users will be harassed to follow the law. Mom and pop who wired up their building and bought a T1 are fine. Mom and pop who bought a few T1's and service their urban town are fine. Aol who bought out thousands of mom and pops has to comply.

    --
    Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
  13. Re:I'm normally a fan of competition... by t0ny · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I think Time Warner payed the price of AOL being such a big dial-up player.

    Also, AOL cant even give their service away anymore. A good friend is on dialup, and had to go elsewhere because she just couldnt get a connection. When she cancelled, they offered her up to three months free- but if you cant get thru, what good is free?

    She is paying somebody (I think Earthlink) about $20/month, gets no spam (well, no more than ordinary), and isnt hit with her ISP spamming her for junk or services.

    Im sure that MSN, which was pretty much based on the AOL business model, is in the same boat. Relying on advertising just seems like such a dot-com era business model. Especially when you realize that television has pretty much trained people to ignore advertising!

    --

    Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.

  14. Re:decentralization of acess is fine by me. by Cylix · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Oh I can go much lower then that.

    If port density isn't your thing you can go for an Ascend max 6096 (96 modems) With a 6 users to 1 line ratio you can squeeze 576 users on that unit. You can grab a 6096 for 3k on ebay. You've got a myriad of options for lower end routing as well.

    Really depends on your aims.

    Accounting packages aren't hard to come by and I do believe freshmeat has a couple suites available.

    It's quite affordable on the low end (assumming you don't want support for some of the aging gear).

    --
    "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
  15. Re:Sheesh by thebatlab · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Although I like to be the first to play the devil's advocate when it comes to MS hypocricy here I don't think that statement was necessarily hypocritcal. Mainly b/c nobody cried foul.

    We know this is timothy and he likes to put in his little quips in on every story and generally likes to be very anti-MS. In this case I'm wiling to give him benefit of the doubt though that he was just raising a valid point about a lack of big names in the dial-up market.

    I can totally see where you would think it was him being a zealot again though ;)

  16. Re:decentralization of acess is fine by me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I used to work for the MSN call center in Canada. When I went in to work for them, I assumed it must be a really professional operation since it was Microsoft and all. Boy was I in for a surprise. I mean after I saw that Microsoft's ambition was to rake in maximum dollars at minimum services, I realized why they were having so many customers leave them. Now I guess that many customers leaving them and also moving over to broadband is hitting home.

    It had to be one of the most unprofessional sweatshops on earth. We were hardly given any training and were put on the phones right away. Pay was CDN$11/hr, and they moved it here probably because they figured that it would be cheaper to employ Canadians than Americans. The whole operation was teetering on barely making it by Canadian labor law standards, at that time I really didn't have a choice in terms of employment so I grudgingly slogged it with them. We basically made up excuses to customers about their technical problems and just gave them the standard question answer from the help sheets off the Microsoft extranet. Our supervisors had no clue what was going on, it was make it up as u go everday. It was guilt filled, wretched job.

    The most hilarious thing had to be when, MSN 9 software was coming out and we were asked to promote pop up ad blocking as an amazing feature to the customers and sign them up or retain the ones that wanted to cancel their subscriptions. I so many times wanted to tell them to use bloody Mozilla instead (IT IS FREE!!!).

    It didn't take that long to figure out that Microsoft made its money selling its services mostly to the older age groups and to technology naive. If I got a penny for every time a customer thought that only way to get on the Internet was using the MSN 8 browser (NOT FREE) ...I would be a millionaire.

    I for one am not really disappointed about Bill rethinking his strategy on providing dialup service. Its best he sticks to recycling and garbage disposal (the software kind I mean).

  17. There's still money being made in dialup, by qtp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    but there's no money being made in trying to corner that market.

    The problem at MSN is not that they are selling dialup, but that they thought that it would be proffitabl;e to spend $314 Million on advertizing a service that sells for so little in a market that has so many competitors.

    I wonder how much profit AOL actually sees from thier service. I'm guessing very little if any.

    Attempting to dominate the dialup service market through extensive advertising seems more a play to attract investors or increase stock market value than it does an attempt to make an honest living.

    --
    Read, L
  18. Re:decentralization of acess is fine by me. by jlleblanc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    At best you get a 'install disk' that some 14 year old kid hacked up with Visual Basic.

    Our local mom-and-pop ISP comes to your house and sets everything up for you, free of charge. No setup fee. YourInter.net