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HP Working With Apple To Add WMA Support To iPod
iPod Afficianado writes to a short piece at Connected Home magazine in which Paul Thurrott "is quoted as saying that HP's blockbuster deal with Apple will have one
exciting side effect. The company will be working with Apple to add support for
Microsoft's superior Windows Media Audio (WMA) format to the iPod by mid-year."
Okay. Yes. I realize the guy said that WMA is suprerior. Now, I do have to say that I have recently been playing around with WMA files a bit.
1.) 64-bit WMAs do have a little less quality than 128-bit encodings of MP3's. However, because 64 is half the encoding of 128, this is only to be expected. However, unless you're specifically listening to it, you may never notice it.
2.) The WMAs are smaller in file size (even at the same bit encoding). This is nice. Especially if you plan to put the songs on some sort of MP3 player with limited memory.
3.) Yeah. The DRM thing sucks. I totally agree. This is why I chose not to go with WMAs in the end. (I was considiring converting my MP3s over.)
WMAs are not all bad. In fact, they do even have good qualities. But, the DRM overrides any benefit that they may have.
I've already mentioned this several times before, but when Linux was first put on the iPod, they had an early version of Tremor (An integer-only Vorbis decoder) running at 80% realtime. Seeing as there have been numerous processor and memory optimisations in that time, not to mention ports to other embedded platforms which don't have as powerful processors as the iPod, I'd say the iPod could play back Vorbis.
Young grasshopper, you fail to see the point of AAC. There is nothing "open" about it. Just because it's part of an MPEG spec does not make it "open", and it's most certainly NOT FREE.
Consider this: who's seriously supporting AAC right now besides Apple? (crickets chirping). That's right - Apple probably has a special deal with Dolby which allows Apple, and only Apple, to distribute free software (itunes) incorporating the AAC codec.
You know what that is?
PLATFORM LOCK-IN.
Same goes for WMA, Real, etc. The big guys get behind a format and then they get to keep everyone else out unless they pony up.
Say no to proprietary formats. Say no to DRM. It's your music.
Real (who you mentioned in your post) supports AAC, too.
Real is supporting AAC now (as of very recently--they use it in basically the same way they used Atrac3 in the past), but considering that a lot of Slashdotters don't seem to like Real, so this doesn't really say that much about AAC not being locked in.
Rip to FLAC.
Then use this to encode to the codec of the week on the fly.
Yeah it takes more space, but gigs are cheaper than time (my time at least).
I do know one way in which WMA is superior to both MP3 and AAC. There's support for lossless compression in WMA.
Ironically, this makes it the ideal format for recompressing files that you decompressed in order to remove their DRM.
platform lock-in?
Nero encodes to AAC, Real encodes to AAC and plays it, and there are a number of flash players I have read about over the last few weeks that are supporting AAC.
AAC is a NEW MPEG standard and it will take time to get the penetration that WMA and MP3 have, but eventually, it will be everywhere.
but I guess open to you means that LAME will encode it?
well LAME is illegal anyway since you have to technically pay for an MP3 licenses to encoded in that format......
have fun with your Ogg files and your 5 pound portable music player....I mean laptop.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Ah... the facts...
.NET Magazine. He writes a weekly editorial for Windows & .NET Magazine UPDATE (http://www.win2000mag.net/email) and writes a daily Windows news and information newsletter called WinInfo Daily UPDATE (http://www.wininformant.com).
m ?AuthorID=879
Paul Thurrott is the news editor for Windows &
from http://www.connectedhomemag.com/Articles/Index.cf
Funny you should say that. Take a look around Paul Thurrott's web sites. There's little doubt in my mind that he's funded from the Microsoft PR coffers. Did I say PR? I meant FUD.
Don't be a newspeak victim.
..video afficionados(snobs) praised the move, declaring their love for the "warmth" and "Squishiness" of the 200 (210 on a good day, downhill with a tailwind) lines of horizontal resolution and miniscule NTSC (Never Twice the Same Color) color gamut offered by the VHS format.
"If only I could get Sony to support the original, pre-WWII perforated-wheel system, I'd be completely happy", said one person with more money than good sense, as he lovingly stroked his $150K turntable.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
base3s-Computer:~ passerm$ ls -1a /Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/Resources. n .lprojr oja cp.icnsT unes-cd.icns. icns- itms.icnsu nes-mp3.icnsT unes-ogg.icns <-------
i Tunes-snd.icnsn sn esHelper.appr oj
.
.
Dutch.lproj
English.lproj
French.lproj
Germa
Italian.lproj
Japanese.lproj
Spanish.lp
da.lproj
fi.lproj
iTunes-aac.icns
iTunes-a
iTunes-aiff.icns
iTunes-audible.icns
i
iTunes-database.icns
iTunes-device
iTunes-eq.icns
iTunes-generic.icns
iTunes
iTunes-movie.icns
iTunes-mp2.icns
iT
iTunes-mpg.icns
iTunes-nvf.icns
i
iTunes-playlist.icns
iTunes-sd2.icns
iTunes-visual.icns
iTunes-wav.ic
iTunes-wma.icns
iTunes.icns
iTunes.rsrc
iTu
ko.lproj
no.lproj
pt.lproj
sv.lp
zh_CN.lproj
zh_TW.lproj
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
I just picked up a Rio Karma, and I must tell you that I love this thing. I could go on telling you about all of the features it has, but I'll keep minimal with only the following four words.
Ogg and FLAC support.
For those of us who don't use Windows, all other OS' are supported through an ethernet connection (and they are working on mass storage through USB as well).
Check out www.riovolution.com for more details.
Why would they bother creating ogg and wma icons for iTunes if they didn't plan to eventually use them?
.ogg files in iTunes if you have the appropriate QT plug-in installed, as I've been doing for about a year and a half?
Possibly because you can already play
Don't read too much into the icons.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
"Someone plans a head because when you hire an artist to make icons you may as well make all the ones you might need instead of hiring an artist again latter."
.ogg icons but not include the codec is due to the fact that they are 'beleagured' and will soon be out of business? ;-)
Apple has more than enough artists IN HOUSE. They don't hire an artist to make icons for audio formats.
I often joke that there are more graphic designers employeed at Apple than engineers.. and compared to other companies, that probably isn't too far from reality.
"Or the product that was going to burn to CD, but unless the owner finds more money soon the developers will find a new job and the company will be out of buisness."
So, the reason that Apple would put in
I'm not feeling witty so bite me
I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate it.
But, I disklike it. There are many reasons but the main ones are:
1)inferior quality
2)DRM
3)It's being pushed by a convicted monopoly
Point 1 I can easily justify because WMA at the max supported bitrate is the only codec I could detect 100% is a double blind test, codecs tested were LAME VBR with --alt-preset fast extreme, Ogg Vorbis with Oggdrop's max VBR setting, WMA 8 Max VBR setting, and WAV source. Point two should be self explanatory, but if you must know I dislike the idea that I am renting the music from whomever decides my equipment should be blessed to play their format. As to the third I do as much as I can to fight a company that is out to crush all competition no matter what illegal methods they must employ.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Hah. Gee, what a shock. Paul Thurrott whores himself out to Microsoft again. I'm SHOCKED, SHOCKED I say. He's only done it a few times before... not so surprising that he should do it yet again. He's just a pro-MS troll who happens to get paid for it.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
"Connected Home" seems to be a Paul Thurrott outlet.
Thurrott may be a complete Windows fanboy but he does seem to have sources inside Microsoft.
Some highlights:
Lost amid all the hubbub of CES was the start of Macworld Conference & Expo, which opened Tuesday with an unexciting Steve Jobs keynote.
Apple might have to face music of another kind in a class-action lawsuit that will likely be filed this month against the company in California.
Microsoft, the industry's 800-pound gorilla, has just launched an advertising campaign aimed directly at Linux's OSS solution.
Positive MS articles, negative Apple/Linux articles.
I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
As opposed to the proprietary AAC format? The only difference is whether you make your check out to Microsoft or Dolby. If you want a non-proprietary format, there is only one choice: Ogg Vorbis.
i've purchased a few albums from iTMS. it comes in at 128k. select the album, burn an audio cd, then put the cd in and re-rip it. sound quality is good. you'd probably need some high grade equipment to tell the difference. okay, so it's not cd quality. fine. but in most mp3 players, i'd say that you'd need some really good ears to notice. and then you can burn an audio cd for playback anywhere without any drm. small price to pay, i'd say. but of course i'm only an afficianado, not a conesieur.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Here is a comparison of various lossless formats:s on.htm
http://home.wanadoo.nl/~w.speek/compari
WMA doesn't come out on top.
I use Amadeus II for my music editing.
I can't believe I can listen to the files in I-tunes, thanks slashdotters. I know one good thing that came out of this "news" article.
AAC is open; you just have to pay licensing fees for it. In other words, third parties can make AAC encoders which yield different results (it looks like Apple's AAC encoder is the best at the moment), but they have to pay royalties. The same is not true of WMA.
So, based on your single experience you conclude that the restrictions you encountered are inherent to the WMA format?? This simply isn't true. The WMA downloads from Walmart, for example, allow unlimited copying to portable devices.
That's true, although its worth pointing out that any iPod can play uncompressed AIFF files just fine.
Of course, it kills your battery and you lose most of the skip buffer, but I don't see how that wouldn't be true of an uncompressed file with a WMP wrapper, either.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Paul is a well know Mac basher, he does it literally on a daily basis.
I've thought about that before too, and it sounds nice, but it's not going to happen. There is still a little problem of a different copany called Apple, but this one is a record label. To quote FoxNews:
So far Apple has gotten away with iTMS, but I don't thing that becoming a record label (which is basically what you are suggesting), indi or not, would fly any farther than you can toss a yellow submarine.
SCO.com uses Linux
An interesting use for *.ogg is as music for computer games. You can't really use *.mp3 because of the $50k royalty charge, so games like Warlords IV come bundled with music in *.ogg format.:)
Is this a sigs-optional kind of place? 'Cause I am totally down with that if you know what I mean.
That's exactly the same as WMA: Windows Media Licensing. Well, not exactly the same, since WMA licensing costs less.
WMA is superior to plain vanilla mp3 at reasonable bitrates 128-160 kb, but it can't quite match up to vorbis, mp3pro, or aac.
This format is not crap and I use it on my mp3 player because it only supports mp3 and wma, and wma sounds better at the same bitrate.
Actually, I think that's Virtual PC running on a Win XP machine.
Vonal Declosion
The author can be reached pretty easily.
Mwahahahaha! And no, I wasn't said AC. I haven't even read that AC's post.
"Hu, ho, ho-ah-oh-oh-oh. Hu, ho ho-ah-oh-oh-oh. Mario Paint! Whoaaa!"
It is highly surprising to me that you were able to detect, and thereby assume inferiority, of a LOSSLESS codect amongst other LOSSLESS codecs.
WMA's highest bit-rate, btw, is lossless. I point this out in case you didn't bother to find that out when you decided to post your lie.
You mean my Rio Karma? You're off a bit on the weight, though; it's 5.5 ounces, i.e. 0.1 ounces less than an iPod with the same disk capacity. That and its list price is about $50 less. Oh, and it can connect via Ethernet, has standard RCA jacks in its docking station so it's connected to my stereo system whenever it's recharging, and has a Java-based connection software so it can talk to any operating system with Java support.
There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
It simply isn't true.
Why do people believe everything they read on the Internet?
That's funny, I go tools-> options-> copy music and the highest quality is 192Kbit/second. So the highest bitrate WMP 8 supports for encoding is in fact FAR from lossless. Also the default is to enable DRM and lock it to the computer doing the ripping.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Hey, his home page claims an *entire blog* devoted to non-Microsoft technologies. Intrigued, I cruised over there and was treated to gems like these:
How far behind is Mac gaming?
I had to laugh out loud when I saw MacWorld's hilarious "2003 Game Hall of Fame," which reads like a list of PC games past. Which games made the list, you ask? Well, you'll have to think back a bit, because most of them debuted on the PC one to three years before they hit the Mac. Here are the PC release dates for the mainstream games that made the list (even the bizarro choice, Noiz2sa ["most difficult-to-pronounce" game, duh] was out on the PC first, though I couldn't find a release date):
Zoo Tycoon - Released on the PC October 2001
Unreal Tournament 2003 - Released on the PC September 2002
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003 - Released on the PC July 2002
Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast - Released on the PC March 2002
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Desert Siege - Released on the PC March 2002
Dungeon Siege - Released on the PC April 2002
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne - Released on the PC July 2003 (the sole simultaneous release)
The Operative: No One Lives Forever - Released on the PC November 2000
On the PC, we're playing newer versions of these games now (I actually have both Tiger Woods 2004 and Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, for example). But the funniest part of this roundup, of course, is the section titled 'Best Place to Get Classic Games." Clearly, that would be the Mac. But serious game players have know this for some time, so it's not a huge surprise. I just think it's interesting to see it so clearly demonstrated.
posted 1/4/2004 10:55:32 PM
and
More egregiously, Apple still locks its customers into their proprietary music store and crappy AAC format.
(I wondered about this -- isn't WMA proprietary, and AAC open-speced as part of MPEG 4, or am I confused?)
May we never see th
WMA lossless cannot be decoded by regular WMA decoders. Microsoft doesn't even make an embedded WMA lossless decoder.
Copyright holders should have the right to control how you distribute copies of their work, not how you use it.
Litigious bastards
You don't HAVE to include DRM in the files you encode. It is an option that can be turned on or off in Windows Media Player.
It is iPod getting WMA support, as others already stated.
But beyond that, I thought this was discussed several times already in response to previous related stories. First of all, iPods fully support MP3 format, so MP3 is in no way "out" and WMA "in." That's pure nonsense. Second, you can add encryption and DRM to any compression method with relatively same level of effort. There is nothing inherent in AAC or WMA that they "support" DRM and Vorbis and MP3 don't. Any of those streams can be encrypted and wrapped around with their respective containers. No DRM for Vorbis? Bullshit! A simple googling would show you otherwise.
So, moderators, stop moderating this trolling as insightful. If you don't know what you are moderating, then either go find out, or move on to the next post.
I used to be young and naive and also thought that .wav was just uncompressed PCM audio. Well, Microsoft actually embraced and extended the RIFF format, called it wav, and the actual data can be in 11 different formats (mp2, mp3, ac3, 4 flavours of PCM, 2 flavours of ADPCM, and WMA V1 and V2). (See wav.c in the ffmpeg source code for more).
I used to wonder why Microsoft games used the wav format when something else would be more efficient, and now I now. The good news is that ffmpeg can convert it into something usable.
Of course you could always just buy a Creative Labs Zen (NX/Xtra), which already supports both mp3 and wma. Also the 30gig NX is about $120 cheaper than the 20gig iPod. Other features include USB 2.0 support, THX audio and replaceable batteries. Now why would anyone buy an iPod?
The monopoly is legal (hence the reason it still exisits).
1. Apple doesn't lock people into their music store; noone else has come up with a music store for Apple that I know of.
2. AAC isn't their format, and it isn't crappy. AAC is MP4 - Fairplay is a third party DRM tech that Apple licensed. But this guy Thurrott is so obviously an astroturfer I don't know why anyone is bother to post his stuff.
"The copyright holder legally holds all the rights on their work, and they are (and should be!) free to restrict how you use their work."
The law doesn't agree with you, neither do the courts.
(Copyright doesn't allow you to control how a work is used, only how it is copied.)
They were "convicted" of illegally using the influence granted by their monopoly.
Monopoly's aren't illegal. Using the influence that monopoly grants you in certain ways get's you in trouble. In fact, it's doing certain things that would be perfectly legal for you to do, if you weren't a monopoly.
WMP 9 supports three different encoding streams from the Format Dropdown box.
Normal - 48 to 192
Variable - 40-75 to 240-355
Lossless - 470-940
As for the DRM, there is a checkbox which states clearly, "Copy Protect Music". You uncheck it and the DRM is gone from any future encodings. And just for the record, AAC also has DRM in it, so it's not like Apple is going from an open music codec to a DRM music codec just by adding another codec to their lineup.
I'm no fan of WMP, and in fact I'm currently using OGG right now, but attempting to prove your point using an outdated version isn't helping your point across.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
There are several companies in the specialty chemicals business that have a monopoly on the chemicals that they produce. They do not abuse their monopoly because it would be very bad for business.
I know. I work for one.
Creative Spelling Copyright (2002). May use without Persimmons
Here are just a few iTunes/iTMS/iPod-related picks from Paul Thurrott's blog over past half year:
July 22, 2003:
"So BuyMusic.com is live. Like the excellent iTunes Music Store, it offers digital singles and album for download. The layout of the site is, perhaps, overly similar to iTunes. The similarities end there. BMC offers more songs (300K vs. 200K), better sound (WMA 9 vs. AAC), better prices (singles start at 79 cents vs. 99 cents), much better PC compatibility (it reaches the 97 percent of the world using Windows, not the ~1 percent using OS X), and better device compatibility (slew of devices vs. just a few on iTMS). The much ballyhooed problem with BMC--various DRM-related "limitations"--are not a problem: Most songs have unlimited sharing capabilities, or very reasonable limits (i.e. a limit of 10 CD burns. Oooohhhh.). In other words, iTMS, excellent though it is, is now officially toast. Apple should have supported Windows from Day One. Now, it's too late."
July 23, 2003:
"one of the best features of iTunes (and I've now downloaded 157 songs from the service) is that Apple lets you copy songs to up to three Macs"
July 24, 2003:
"I have a 5 GB iPod [...] the reason is that Apple refuses to add (the free) support for Windows Media Audio (WMA) 9 format, probably because it's afraid users would notice the quality difference if they had AAC, MP3, and WMA all running on the same player."
July 28, 2003:
"it's clear that Buymusic.com is going to stomp all over the iTunes Music Store. WMA is the right technology, Windows is the right platform, and Buymusic.com supports a much wider range of PCs and devices than does Apple."
August 03, 2003:
"Anyone want to take bets on when Buymusic.com surpasses iTunes' sales? I'm guessing it happens before Apple releases the Windows version of iTunes."
December 09, 2003:
"iTunes sales dropping significantly as holidays near [...] a cursory examination of Apple's publicly-revealed sales figures and the dates of those announcements reveals that iTunes sales are actually falling through the floor."
January 03, 2004:
As the owner of both a 1st generation (5 GB) iPod and a 2nd generation (30 GB, dock-based) iPod...I purchased over 200 songs from the iTunes Music Store. Bravo."
---
So keep on spreading the FUD, Paul.
I'll be watching you, asshole!
How about the EULA? I really did not want to post it here but I could not find a link to it. Portions of the license agreements for the SDK's are listed here .
The bold is mine. WM9 is more then a media player. It is an unreversable OS patch. Consider yourself OWNED. I'll stick with plain old MP3 for my encoding.
SUPPLEMENTAL END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
IMPORTANT: READ CAREFULLY - This Supplemental End User License Agreement ("Supplemental EULA") is a legal agreement between you (either an individual or a single entity) and Microsoft Corporation ("Microsoft") for the Microsoft software that accompanies this Supplemental EULA, which includes computer software and may include associated media, printed materials, "online" or electronic documentation, and Internet-based services (the "OS Components"). The OS Components are provided to update, supplement, or replace existing functionality of the applicable Microsoft software for which the OS Components are designed (any such software referred to here as "OS Software"). An amendment or addendum to this Supplemental EULA may accompany the OS Components. YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THE APPLICABLE OS SOFTWARE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT ("OS SOFTWARE EULA") AND THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA BY INSTALLING, COPYING, OR OTHERWISE USING THE OS COMPONENTS. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL, COPY, OR USE THE OS COMPONENTS.
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A VALIDLY-LICENSED COPY OF THE APPLICABLE OS SOFTWARE, YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO INSTALL, COPY OR OTHERWISE USE THE OS COMPONENTS AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA.
General.
* Microsoft grants you a license to use the OS Components under the terms and conditions of the OS Software EULA (which are hereby incorporated by reference except as set forth below), the terms and conditions set forth in this Supplemental EULA, and the terms and conditions of any additional end user license agreement that may accompany the individual OS Components (each an "Individual EULA"), provided that you comply with all such terms and conditions. To the extent that there is a conflict among any of these terms and conditions applicable to the OS Components, the following hierarchy shall apply: 1) the terms and conditions of the Individual EULA; 2) the terms and conditions in this Supplemental EULA; and 3) the terms and conditions of the applicable OS Software EULA.
* The OS Components are protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws and treaties. Microsoft or its suppliers own the title, copyright, and other intellectual property rights in the OS Components. Microsoft reserves all rights not expressly granted to you in this Supplemental EULA. The OS Components are licensed, not sold.
* Capitalized terms used in this Supplemental EULA and not otherwise defined herein shall have the meanings assigned to them in the applicable OS Software EULA.
Additional Rights and Limitations.
* You may reproduce, install and use one copy of the OS Components on each of your computers that is running a validly licensed copy of the applicable OS Software, provided that you use each such additional copy of the OS Components in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Supplemental EULA.
* Solely for the purpose of preventing unlicensed use of the applicable OS Software, the OS Components may install on your computer technological measures that are designed to prevent unlicensed use, and Microsoft may use this technology to confirm that you have a licensed copy of the OS Software. The update of these technological measures only occurs through the installation of these OS Components. The OS Components will not install on unlicensed copies of the OS Software. If you are not using a licensed copy of the OS Software, you are not allowed to install the OS Components or future OS Software updates. Microsoft will
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Haha!!
No. Far from it.
Claims to be about 30% better than MP3 at 128k. That's nowhere near lossless (and the algorithm does not intend to be either).
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
To see the Microsoft Media SDK in action, visit Quinnware.com and download their QCD player (a very nice, free WinAMP-style player). Download the WMA input plugin (naturally there are plugins for MP4, Ogg, etc).
Go ahead. Try it. Buy a track from buymusic.com and then copy the file to another computer which has QCD installed. Play the track. Heck, re-encode into MP3, WAV, OGG, whatever. All without QCD (and the Windowd Media SDK) ever asking anyone for a license.
MORTAR COMBAT!