Slashdot Mirror
Lego Goes Back to the Basics: Building Blocks
Decaffeinated Jedi writes "Slashdot recently covered Lego's plan to stop producing its Mindstorms line in response to the Danish company's worst financial loss in history. While the original article linked focused primarily on Lego's plans to cease production on various toy lines, Yahoo News now has a follow-up article that looks in greater detail at Lego's plan for the future. 'We are returning to Lego's former concept,' says Lego owner and president Kjeld Kirk Kristiansen. 'We're going to focus on building bricks as our main product, concentrating on little kids' eagerness to assemble.' Kristiansen goes on to blame the company's financial woes on its attempt to follow trends rather than focusing on its more traditional products. In turn, the company's plan for 2004 will include a renewed marketing push for Lego bricks as opposed to licensed products like the Harry Potter and Star Wars lines. Toy researcher Joern Martin Steenhold also notes the following in the article: 'All research, including my own, shows that computer games and other electronic games take up only 20 to 30 percent of children's play time. Boys play with traditional toys up until the age of eight or 10, and it is in the zero to seven age range that Lego has its niche.' Zero to seven? What about the Slashdot crowd?"
Boys play with traditional toys up until the age of eight or 10, and it is in the zero to seven age range that Lego has its niche.' Zero to seven? What about the Slashdot crowd?
I'm 38 and still monkey with Lego. When I was sick at home for a few days I had a little contest running with myself. I had built a small Lego "bridge" that could span a piece of legal paper lengthwise (14") then would place a glass of water on it. If the bridge didn't hold then I had water to clean up. If the bridge held for 5 minutes I'd tear it down then 're-engineer' it with less pieces than before. All the regular bricks, no cheating with the longer pieces.
When you're sick a bit of a mental challenge helps you forget the illness. (I was doing this with my Lego blocks from 30+ years ago but I have a lot of Mindstorms stuff too, it's leet)
Trolling is a art,
I wonder how this will effect FIRST Lego League, the international robotics competition for middle-schoolers. FLL is a great program from Dean Kamen and the same people who run the FIRST Robotics Competition.
A corporation moving back toward imagination and away from limiting corporate tie-ins, don't see too much flowing in that direction these days. The "themed" Lego sets were the worst thing to happen to toys in my lifetime.
I'm beginning to have faith that I may be able to buy new Lego for my future children, as opposed to having them play with my mess of a collection.
The problem with the Slashdot crowd is that not as many /.'ers play with legos and one might think. Most of us have jobs and lives that prevent us from playing with cool toys.
On the other hand, Lego's problems lay deeper than a bloated product line. Lego toys are way, way too expensive. Even when I was a little kid twenty years ago, my parents bought me high quality knockoffs at Sears for like 1/3 the cost of Legos. I imagine that it's worse today.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
> Boys play with traditional toys up until the age
:-)
> of eight or 10, and it is in the zero to seven age
> range that Lego has its niche.' Zero to seven?
> What about the Slashdot crowd?
Perhaps he was talking mental age?
Seriously though a key trait of the hacker mindset is, I think, playfulness. That shows up in the way hackers mess around with language and Lego. And that playfulness is a key aspect of learning. How many times have you hacked something together "just for the fun of it": in reality half the fun was that you were learning.
The good news is that Lego is going back to the bricks. Great news Lego, that's just what we all needed!
John.
One thing lego always helped me do was learn to conentrate. I could spend hours just doing one thing. Kids now days seem to spend 5 minute son something then move on
As the old saying goes
"I'm sure my concentration span is...ooh look shiny thing"
Rus
CPanel + Root from $35/mo - 10% off with discount code SLASHDOT
It'd be nice if they were more affordable though (this is where that nasty global economy / foreign currency things comes into play :(
I C_ ID=7109
Actually, I've been kind of surprised that Lego hasn't hit upon the idea of marketing kits directly to grown-ups, say a line of desk accessories (the pens struck me as lame).
When I got a Fujitsu Point 510 pen slate, I didn't bother to get a stand---thought about making one out of wood, but instead chose to use my old Legos (I've since added a pen holder and a stand for a CD-RW drive to lift it up behind the Fujitsu Stylistic I did purchase a stand for (was running low on Legos)).
Pictures of the Point 510 and stand should be here:
http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/topic.asp?TOP
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
I've always been interested in the Mindstorms, but never quite enough to buy 'em, always figuring "Some day, some day..." Well, it looks like "some day" has arrived, and I don't know which ones to geek out on. I'd like to:
- Have something mobile
- Have it be controllable via Linux
- Have it do nifty things
For those of you that've already bought/geeked out on/played with them, which models (that are still available) have brought you the most joy?
------------------
I recall being surprised that the parking lot for Legoland was nearly deserted, until I saw the admission price.
Anyway, I know I'll miss Mindstorms. I wonder what other lines they'll drop?
John
Legos were much better when they were simply blocks and YOUR IMAGINATION was what mattered. I've watched my little brothers put together newer lego sets where most of the pieces are designed to fit together in ONE SPECIFIC WAY. Everything is already planned out, and you are supposed to follow the directions (like a some-assembly-required toy).
I'm all for plain old blocks again. And I wouldn't be surprised if that leads to higher revenues again.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
Lego could probably be a very profitable company for a long, long time. All they need to do is sell plastic blocks (which they price very high). Their move of getting rid of the electronics, tie-ins, etc is a good one. I wonder if they will dump the theme parks too.
20 years ago, someone at Lego thought that they should be a huge powerhouse company, with their hands in everything. Why not just be a medium sized company, making a few million dollars of profit every year with your core business?
Walgreens pharmacy did a similar thing. It seemed like suddenly every single corner had a Walgreens on it- everywhere you looked, another frickin Walgreens. Now, craploads of them have gone out of business, and the corner is left with a VERY cheap building. They didn't do themselves, or anyone else any good by over-expanding. (My old neighborhood had an awesome coffee shop that leased a corner building. Eventually, the landlord sold the corner lot, the coffee shop went out of business, and nice shiny new Walgreens was built. 2 years later, it is an empty building, where once my favorite coffee shop, with a fireplace even, stood.)
What does that have to do with Legos? Over expansion- the urge to be big, instead of concentrating on what works for you.
No reason to lie.
Isn't Lego being a bit harsh on itself after a down year in sales? They were still profitable in 2002. I can't find the profit and loss numbers of the previous years, although statements have been made that 1998 was Lego's first loss year.
...
I have a mindstorms set, I really like the technic boxes, and I'm amazed Lego's sole interest for the future would be in 0-7 year olds. All of the young boys (7-10 year olds) in my neighborhood and family still seem to be getting huge piles of Lego blocks
--- Sigmentation Fault - Comments Dumped
They already have some Lego stores in the mall, I don't think it would be too hard to add a bulk section.
Being able to buy a 1/2 pound of triangle, rectangle, or square pieces would be great if you are missing pieces or if you want to buy you kid or husband a heck of a lot of legos to foster their imagination.
I think the real name was Contstrux. My brother and I built a tunnel (using the blue panel 'covers') to carry warm air from the heat vent up to the foot of the bed and under the covers... It worked too well.
Also built some kick ass swords with those things. You could parry/thrust a few times before they'd break apart, first one to break obviously lost the fight!
I agree that the marketing aspect with Star Wars and other themed sets needs to go. I disagree with the idea of going back to nothing but plastic blocks.
I spent hours working with the 'Technics'(sp?) sets they used to sell. These differed from the regular legos in that they came with a bunch of various sized gears, universal joints, steering knuckles, etc. The normal solid bricks have holes through which shafts may be run. I spent many many hours learning about gears, mechanical advantage, backlash, torque (I often wished for some metal versions of the plastic gears and shafts for high-load areas) and many other concepts.
I'd love to see all this plus a few specialized parts so that I could build a kit with which I could build any number of remote control vehicles. (I've never played with the mindstorms stuff, I dont' know if they have this kind of stuff).
In Cologne Germany they have a lego shop where you can fill up cups of different sizes with lego blocks from a good selection and than pay by cup size. Similar to some sweet store.
I bought an giant tub of lego, >2000 bits in it.
It was mostly empty and most of the bits were one or two square size!!
I was very angry!
New lego in the UK costs about 100 GBP per kilo.
Lego on ebay costs 10 GBP per kilo.
For the summer I bought 15 Kilo of lego, enough for 5 children to play with (no, I dont have 5 children.)
I bought it from ebay!
Sam
blog.sam.liddicott.com
Back when Lego introduced a lot of the new stuff I couldn't see the point, as it limited the use of specialty items, which was IMHO unattractive. In my youth I made lots of stuff and spent uncounted hours developing my imagination with a few simple pieces. I'm sure my parents loved it, as it kept me busy and quiet while building things. Same applied to Erector sets, Lincoln Logs and Tinker Toys. Provide the kids with the basics and their minds will do the rest. Provide them with limited toys and they lose interest in a short time and expect something new.
There was also something like brown or red plastic girders and green plastic sheets which could be used to make buildings, houses, etc. which were really cool, but I can't remember the name of. I'd buy them if they were still for sale.
Once again, brick and mortar prove most successful.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
When I was really young, around 9 or 10, I actually wrote a letter to Lego, begging them for a double-sided Lego brick. Either double-male or double-female, I drew pictures and everything. Lego, in their infinite wisdom, wrote back a few months later with some legalese bullshit about how they can't accept idea submissions from outside sources, particularly not children.
This was nearly 20 years ago. I think they should've taken my advice instead of doing Star Wars co-marketing.
I've got 2 test subjects, er, 21-month-old boy/girl twins at home, and we allow them to play with whatever toys they want to.
Generally, they both play with (and share) the Duplo blocks (Legos are still a choking hazard), the Matchbox cars, the Mr. (and Mrs.) Potato Head, the Brio trains, my bass amp, and so on. There are also baby dolls (boy/girl twins, like them), various stuffed critters, and the Little Tykes kitchen our friends gave them. And books -- tons of 'em. Boynton, Little Golden Books, DK, Shel Silverstein poetry, Dr. Seuss, Pooh (AA Milne, not the Disney-fied crap), etc. They sometimes insist on taking a book to bed with them at nap time...
Does my son play with the trains more than the kitchen? Seems like it to me.
Does my daughter play more with the baby dolls? Again, seems like it to me.
Do we "direct" them in their play, shooing them away from any particular toy or "suggesting" to them to play with something else instead?
Absolutely not.
In walking, just walk. In sitting, just sit. Above all, don't wobble.
-- Yun-Men
Perhaps someone doesn't need/want to get into the whole 'circuit boards, some metal, and an arc welder' project because they don't have the space, time or knowledge to do so.
I don't understand the difference between pencil and paper and crayons and paper, or why clay is different than making mud pies, or how a CAD program is going to give me something I can hold.
I'm not sure where you got your seemingly arbitrary distinctions of what makes a toy a toy, and what can be used for 'grown-up' work; apparently you are blinding yourself to the ease of use, standard sizes, flexible assembly and unique qualities that Lego has.
Clay, paper and pencils, metal, and CAD software all serve some purpose, but when I want ten little rolling carts to hold screws, and I want it in 10 minutes, I'll go with Lego.
I'll bring you a cup of coffee while you're in the garage setting up the lathe and wirefeed.
Lego are tools that happen to be toys as well.
Don't get caught up in limiting your free expression, use the right tool, or toy, for the task at hand.
I loved those things. In high school at one point we had a clock-designing project that I prototyped with the lego technics stuff; no hands or anything, just weight-driven thing with a primitive escapement and a big bar that swung back and forth to do the same job as a pendulum, all made out of lego.
That's the sort of thing lego was great for--you could have a good time building the (very clever) models from the instructions, but then you could also go do crazy things of your own. I hope kids are still playing with those things for many years. Except for being a bit pointy, they were the perfect toy--fun in the best possible way, because you could always do more with them.
--Bruce Fields
Will Lego continue their educational branch, and if so, will it still have a robotics product?
:), in Alabama (where I lived at the time) to buy a Mindstorms set and drove 2 hours to get there at midnight to buy from a friend the day they hit the shelves.
I'm 32 and still play with and occasionally buy Mindstorms stuff. I was the first person, to my knowledge anyway
My last 2 projects involved cheating at games. 1 was made to automatically mash a button on a PS2 controller when it sensed a lightning flash in Final Fantasy X. The other jiggled my wife's Pikachu2 minigame until it was at it's happiest state. This isn't to point out how to cheat but rather how Mindstorms can be adapted to TONS of applications. I am looking forward to what my someday future children might do with them.
I definitely see them as educational toys for the teenage crowd and I don't know of anything in the same price range (which means I would pay more) with the same flexibility.
I understand Lego going back to the basics, I agree with many that they nearly specialized themselves into oblivion. I won't miss the movie tie-ins (my wife WILL miss the Harry Potter clutter though) and Bionicles was just too much to collect in the end (I tried). However, I really hope Mindstorms and the Technics line live on somehow.
Perhaps Lego needs to branch an adult-focused (ahem, not -that- kind) company so that the 2 lines (3 if you count their educational branch) can work autonomously and not pull each other down but still partner when it makes sense.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
I have played with Legos for over 40 years. I've built static models, moving models, even motorized and robotic models. From basic assembly skills to advanced robotic programming I have seen Legos change in a changing world. My son was brought up on Legos, and before we got a small inflatable pool for them I too stepped on them in the dark of night; Ouch!
Over the years I have followed the gradual trends, Duplo for smaller children, Techno for teenagers and the ever growing number of theme based kits. While the Robotic kits may be the big money loser, I believe that the real killer has been all those theme kits. For 20 bucks you can get a bucket with a few hundred unspecialized pieces, or 75 pieces of highly specialized blocks. Sure a race car or three little go-karts is much more like a toy, and many other things can be built with a specialized set, but collecting Legos through these specialized sets is both expensive and time consuming. Keeping specialized blocks (hands, hats and other smaller that 2X pieces) is is difficult at best. I've probably spent a week of my life at this point sifting through that sea of parts looking for some special piece or articulating joint or gear or axle to complete a project. Don't get me wrong, specialized pieces are definitely cool! But they become a huge waste of time if you don't spend almost as much on developing your own specialized storage system to deal with them.
Then there is the whole software aspect of Legos. (Anyone remember Micorserfs?) Lego spent quite a lot on Lego software. Now there are several 'virtual lego' products. I'm sure that we all remember the Lego diagrams that show how to build something. Those drawings are some of the cleanest engineering and assembly guides around. The software was supposed to enable end users to do that kind of thing, but unfortunately it crashed more machines than it loaded on in the first few go arounds. By the time that MIT's smart brick became the model for the Robotics kits there was even a slick, GUI driven programming model; one which I'm still torn by, because it's either the slickest tool for coding or one of those just over the edge towards madness gizmos depending on how the day/stress level/project deadline is. But you can't really build with Legos at the keyboard, nor can you read most displays from the floor, so I'm not sure that the whole Lego-Computer thing was very well conceived.
Now Lego with RFID tags might be something! Plug your Lego scanner into the computer and watch thOr maybe some kind of 'Etch-a-sketch' sized pad that could display how to build something would probably work better that a computer because you can use it right where you play with Legos. Your upgrade packs could come with inventory files so that the models that were displayed could be built with the pieces on hand. Hell, even a scanner to locate that missing piece could be incorporated!
I'd hate to lose a company like Lego, so I hope that they can 're-generalize and re-integrate' their product line into today's reality.
"Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
Mindstorms came later, use a bubble-gum programming interface, and has no way of expanding.
I am all for stretching their minds. But there is stretching your mind to learn algebra, and there is stretching your mind to work out Kabbalistic numerology. One is applicable to everyday life. The other is suspect at worst, and completely in-applicable to anything else at best.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Think about it: it's easy to come up with multiple uses for a simple brick. Faced with the brown log-cabin wall pieces from the old Western-themed sets, well, what would you do then? A friend of mine was puzzling over that, and finally came up with a scale model of his old, ugly foam-and-corduroy couch (with a skeleton of Technic pieces). When you _do_ come up with alternate uses for highly specialized pieces, the results are really dazzling.
As long as I'm being heretical, I'll say that the Star Wars sets are the best things that happened to Lego in ten years. Those models are much higher quality and piece count than a lot of what came before, they got lots of geeks like me involved in Lego for the first time in their adult lives, and many of the "specialized" pieces created just for Star Wars sets turn out to be very versatile and beautiful. (Printed designs on pieces have got to go, though, as does the entire ugly-as-sin Harry Potter line.)
If you don't pretend to be anyone, are you?