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100 Year-Old Drug Halts Progress Of Alzheimer's
pafischer writes "Several Australian and UK websites are running articles on this story. I'm shocked that I heard it on the Baltimore rock radio station news, but don't see it on any of the big US new websites. 'Clioquinol, developed 100 years ago, can absorb the zinc and copper compounds that concentrate in the brains of Alzheimer's sufferers before dementia sets in, the study found.' Read all about it at ABC Radio AU, The Sidney Morning Herald, and The Age." Of course, the pathology of Alzheimer's is far from fully understood.
It was on the AP wire a while back.
100-year old drug means no patents. No patents means no profits. No profits means the drugco's won't TOUCH it. And in fact I wouldn't be surprised if we see some studies showing that it causes cancer or something.
Sorry folks. Alzheimer's won't get an effective until Pfizer is good and READY.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN: How reliable is the study if it is only 36 patients?
COLIN MASTERS: This is, again, a pilot study, so our next step is to take it into a much larger series of patients, either this drug or a better drug we have in development. What we have on the drawing boards is a better version of this drug which is more effective and will probably go into trials hopefully before the end of this year.
I'd like to see the results after a much more extensive study has been conducted. If this really works, which at least with these preliminary tests suggest, it'd be nice to see alzheimers start to go the way if the dodo.
How could I say to men: "Speak louder, shout! For I am deaf!"? -Ludwig van Beethoven
As much as I hate to be a spelling vigilante, I really have to point out that it's spelt SYDNEY. It annoys me no end when people use 'i' in Sydney. Luckily, the Sydney Morning Herald get it right.
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
100 Year-Old Drug Halts Progress Of Alzheimer's Rather, all the drug has been shown to do in this study is stop a few of the many chemical abnormalities that are coincident with alzheimers. It is unknown whether these chemicals actually do anything to cause alzheimers. They may as well be a byproduct of it, for all we know. It is also unknown how else this drug alters brain chemistry and what the side effects of that could be. So proclaiming it a miracle cure is very premature.
Repeal the DMCA!
This is the same problem with lithium. Can't be patented, so it isn't profitable enough. Lithium has been shown to prevent beta-amyloid accumulation. While beta-amyloid plaques are only associated with (not known to be causative of) Alzheimer's, the fact is that lithium may inhibit the pathological process that produces such plaques far enough upstream to be just what the doctor ordered. One problem with lithium, however, is that it's tough on the kidneys. People of Alzheimer's age might not tolerate that well -- nor other side effects like tremors. Regardless, it's been in wide use since the early 70's for other things. I believe there's some NIH-sponsored thrust to conduct clinical trials with AD patients, but don't quote me on it. If you have access, search through this summer's issues of Nature for the review article on lithium.
1. Loss of short term memory.
2. Confusion.
3. Short term memory loss.
All things in moderation; including moderation
that Juan Antonio Samaranch was very pleased that Sidney was going to host the Olympic games but was very dissapointed when Sydney, New South Wales, Australia actually got them.
On the other hand, Sydney did a nice job hosting the Olympic Games.
Q:I was listening to a CD in Grip and it sounded horrible! What's up? A:Perhaps you are listening to country music
In fact, at least 13% of Alzheimer's cases are indeed CJD caused by mad cow. If larger studies were done, this percentage could end up much higher.
It may turn out that Alzheimer's is due to mad cow, or its predecessor, mad sheep (scrapie).
I hope that any new studies of this drug also focus on how it works in people versus CJD.
All over the beef-eating world, we are seeing CJD very early in people. Italy's only known case of CJD was a man who was merely 27 years old. Given CJD's incubation time, it would indicate that mad cow/BSE/CJD has been in Italy anywhere from 5 to 15 years.
For transmission between people, CJD is a blood borne disease, similar to HIV in how it spreads. This would explain why the ramp on Alzheimer's is so rapid and why so many young people are getting Alzheimer's.
Almost all the medical news regarding mad cow/BSE/CJD has been killed in the US. The simplest assumption would be that there is far more mad cow in the system than anyone wants to say. Only a ingenuous imbecile would think that out of over 35 million cows that are killed every year in the US, over the past 10 years or more, only 1 cow from Canada had BSE/mad cow. Especially considering that the US imports 1.7 million cows from Canada every year. And 1 million from Mexico. In both countries, Canada and Mexico, they have followed the US lead and perform near zero mad cow/BSE testing.
Anyhow, that is a lot on the crazy cow. I am hoping a fool's hope that Alzheimer's does not turn out to be caused by crazy cow. For if it is, there will be an epidemic of dementia in the USA unless a cure is found in the immediate future.
Of course an upcoming unstoppable Alzheimer's epidemic... would clearly explain the sudden and massive urge to offshore all jobs that require brain power to India, land of the sacred cow :-)
It may turn out that Alzheimer's is due to mad cow, or its predecessor, mad sheep (scrapie). There is little to no chance that alzheimers is caused by mad-cow. Is it a related disease? Perhaps. The same disease? Not a chance.
The simplest assumption would be that there is far more mad cow in the system than anyone wants to say
This is stupid. The *simplest* assumption is that there is no mad cow in the system, and to assume that the above is an insane conspiracy theory. Perhaps the fact that there is no known mad cow in the system holds less weight with you than it should.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Over 13% of Alzheimer's deaths in the US are actually caused by mad cow. Using simple logic, one can see that there must be quite a bit of mad cow in the system to cause that many deaths.
Also, that there is mad cow in the USA on the loose is the simplest assumption because close to zero testing has been done in the US -- making the situation very similar to what happened in Britain/Europe before they found major BSE/mad cow infections.
Years ago in Britain and Europe, the same thing happened. The cows were not being tested, industry asserted for a long time that the meat was safe, time went by, people got CJD, there was a public uproar, the cows were tested, many cows were found to have BSE/mad cow, many cows were killed, and testing was finally implemented.
Great Britain and Europe learned the hard way. I've seen major resistance to testing American cows from the beef industry even though the extra cost would be very small. As with Britain, there can only be one reason that there is such resistance -- high mad cow infection rates.
The US has imported tens of millions of animals from countries that are known to have mad cow. The US has not done any real testing for mad cow. A certain percentage of female mad cows give birth to calves that have mad cow, thus producing domestic mad cow. Which again is not tested for.
Check the facts and you will see that there is a high likelihood that Americans have eaten millions of pounds of BSE/mad cow infected beef. Just the last tiny alert (from *one* cow) caused a recall of over 13,000 lbs of meat, some of which had already been eaten by a Seattle family that has come forward. It is not unreasonable to think that hundreds of families were exposed to mad cow just from the last tiny alert.
From a risk management perspective, it is very dangerous to be eating beef in the US. Not only are the cows not tested for mad cow/BSE, but it has been shown that over 13% of Alzheimer's fatalities are actually mad cow/CDJ deaths. The situation is very similar to what happened in both Britain and Europe, so there is little reason to doubt it will also happen in the US. Which means many infections and many deaths are on the way.
It's a 100 yr old drug that is already approved to treat *SOME* illness. Therefore somebody must make it already for that other purpose. Doctors can prescribe drugs for purposes other than that for which they were designed. They don't need anyone's permission. So where's the issue?
Eat at Joe's.
Though personally I'd prefer to live to 75 without alzheimers by taking a drug that kills me eventially, than live to 80, but suffer from alzheimers for the last 10.
I've known people with alzheimers. It isn't easy. Seeing people with fridges full of rotten food because the kids are coming to visit. (well they were 2 years ago when she remembers it from, and many times since, but this month they can't) Starting to drive somewhere, and half way there forget where they are going. And many more things, if you know someone with it, you know a lot of variations on it.
I would love to see some sources on these purported facts you are quoting.
"The simplest assumption would be that there is far more mad cow in the system than anyone wants to say"
This is stupid. The *simplest* assumption is that there is no mad cow in the system, and to assume that the above is an insane conspiracy theory. Perhaps the fact that there is no known mad cow in the system holds less weight with you than it should.
Inflamatory, perhaps. Stupid... who made you the bearer of all knowledge?
If one downer has Mad Cow Disease out of the 20,500 downers tested and there were 200,000 (estimate cited by our government) to 1,000,000 downers (estimate cited by non-industry sources) in the same year, then it doesn't take a degree in math to see that it is probable that there were many missed cases. The expected number of such missed cases is between 10-50, however with only a single reported case the uncertainties are quite large. Nevertheless, the public should be alarmed by the implications of 50-250 tons of infected beef having been already consumed by Americans.
In fact, at least 13% [cyber-dyne.com] of Alzheimer's cases are indeed CJD caused by mad cow.
A citation. Please. A *real* one, not the drivel that appears on that website you linked to, which I can only presume is your own. Go on, find that article in PubMed and let us read more than that. That's not evidence, it's a statement. I'm convinced that you're a hysterical idiot without the first bloody idea what you're on about. You might just convince me that your brains aren't completely rotted if you can at least produce a proper citation for this fact of yours.
*deep breath*
I don't normally lose my rag with people like this, but *pul-lease*. As a science graduate and clinical Vet student, this kind of thing really really does my nut. Hysterical, unfounded, poorly argued pseudo-scientific bullshit. You might as well argue that gastric ulcers and appendicitis are the same thing 'cos they both cause acute stomach pain. Come back when you have the first idea what you're on about, or better, don't come back at all.
for a specific purpose? I'm not suggesting that these companies are evil. But why invest money when the government could do the work? You have to produce quarterly reports. Pharmaceutical companies invest the money necessary to run clinical trials. This still needs to be done with "old" medications to use them in new applications. Granted, it isn't as expensive as developing a drug de novo, but it takes people and resources away from developing far more profitable solutions. On the other hand, there will always be the incentive to build a better mouse trap. Companies will continue to search for "New and Improved!" drugs that have fewer or more palatable side effects, need fewer doses, etc.
No, I meant sources for the purported facts, such as....
"In fact, at least 13% [cyber-dyne.com] of Alzheimer's cases are indeed CJD caused by mad cow. If larger studies were done, this percentage could end up much higher."
The study that the poster is quoting has nothing to do with the statement that mad cow disease could be a cause of CJD. That study merely claims (and probably rightly so) that a certain small percentage of diagnoses of Alzheimer's disease turned out to be CJD instead. No mention is made of beef, cows, or mad cow disease (bovine spongiform encephaly).
However, a Google search reveals that the study *is* widely quoted by opponents of beef consumption, animal rights activists, and the "organic" foods industry, in an effort to claim - through logical fallacy - that BSE is a direct cause of CJD, and that CJD is widespread in the U.S. already.
So, once again, I would like to see some citations of studies which directly show that the poster's assertion is true - namely, that BSE is widespread in the U.S., and that it has already caused numerous cases of CJD here.
I googled the paper mentioned in that cyber-dyne link, and found that in numerous other articles, that paper is referenced for the sole purpose of quoting the 13% statistic which results from a sample of 46 individuals.
The abstract is listed in PubMed, but does not purport to make any statements on mad cow/BSE.
The major cost of new drugs is not research but advertising. Period. Junkets for doctors, samples, television, radio and print ads. It's an undisputed fact that the major drug companies spend twice as much on advertising as on drug development. Ever notice that Viagra's practically the official sponsor of Major League Baseball? That's not cheap.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
This discussion from earlier cited some new research that suggests that some nano-particles can migrate directly into the brian via the olfactories... can anybody think of a good source of nano-sized "zinc and copper compounds that concentrate in the brains of Alzheimer's sufferers" - industrial, natural, or otherwise?
As you are going into some sort of medical field, I hope you learn how to be a pro-active thinking sort of person, not just a reactive "lose your rag" naysayer.
Let me remind you from your study of the history of science that you know many ideas that turned out to be right at first met violent opposition from the scientific community. History has shown us that many scientists do very poorly at considering and accepting new ideas. At least in your ability to reject new ideas, you seem well on the way to being a good run of the mill mediocre scientist.
Stanley Prusiner, the scientist who coined the term prion, originally speculated that Alzheimer's may in fact turn out to be a prion disease. This speculation came in the mid 1980's.
Of course you know that Stanley Prusiner was award the Nobel prize for his work with prions, don't you?
I would at least consider the ideas of a Nobel prize-winning scientist, not reject them outright. It may not be that 100% mad cow = Alzheimer's as the body is a very complex system. However, mad cow could certainly be a leading factor in why Alzheimer's is growing at an amazing pace and being found in many younger people.
In today's most modern research, we are finding evidence that prion-like structures are involved with how memory works. Here's some information from a dementia site, note the links to Cell at the end.
Here's a December 29, 2003 recap from a government website of some of what is going on.
I could provide you with many many links and sources, but I suspect you will be a closed-minded doubter until either CJD rears its ugly in your life or you go ahead and do the research yourself.
Here are a few more places to start exploring --
#123400 CREUTZFELDT-JAKOB DISEASE; CJD
variant Creutzfeld-Jakob Disease Citations 1-10 of 66 total displayed.
That's all. If you eat beef, I would strongly urge you to do the research. Your life and the lives of people you care about may be at stake :-)
As the article says, it's possible that tens of thousands of cases of CJD in the US are going unrecognized.
Modern research is showing that prion-like proteins are involved with memory according to this article (note the links to Cell at the end).
There's a lot more information out there. It's not to say that everything is 100% understood at this point in time. What we do know...
If you are a beef eater, I'd suggest looking into the matter. Life is precious and as the British and Europeans found out the hard way... better not left solely in the hands of governments and industry.
Trolling at it's worst.
He (or she) asked for a source for your claims, giving her an article citation that proved or even claimed linkage between the two wouldn't have been out of the question. Ranting about his (or her) scientific shortcomings was completely unneccessary. In all areas of science background reading or citations are provided with all claims of proof or fact.
Despite being a link to an NIH web page, the NIH actually archives most or all health-related stories submitted via UPI/Reuters/AP there, regardless of credibility.
As with most mainstream media, the news article cited no references, leaving the public sitting anywhere between apathy and hysteria with no real way to verify facts and separate those facts from mere unbased assertions.
The other link to dementia.com is very interesting. But that's only because it indicates that prions may play a normal role in normal memory behavior. Now, there isn't anything particularly surprising that this is possible, since evolution tends to take advantage of any mechanism it can (including that of prions). Still, it interests me that science may be a bit closer to understanding how memory works.
Still, none of the sources you have quoted provide a shred of evidence that any cases of CJD in the U.S. have been caused by eating BSE prion tainted beef.
There are clearly a number of Research savy people on /.,who should be saying things like..Small studies that purport some miraculous cure are a dime a dozen; real drugs that have a Theraputic index are rare. Example: About 20 years ago, a surgeon in mexico reports ASTONISHING, MIRACULOUS results tranplanting fetal tissue into the brains of parkinsons patients - people virtually frozen for years are playing tennis.
As a result, scientists around the world devote scarce $$ and time on followup studies ...and the result ? It dont work that well.
This alz study may be the one in a thousand that actually represents a real finding, but 1:1e3 aint good odds.
As to all this stuff about Li (aka lithium) I have seen Abeta1-40 aggregate in vitro, and it sure happens easily. Just to keep the stuff in solution, you need something like heptaflourobutyric acid as solvent.
translation: If metals promote plaque formation, it can happen with very low, trace concentrations, which implies that chelators (metal binding drugs) are not going to work, or at least chelation will not stop peptide from forming plaques; it might inhibit some protease, or some enzyme downstream of the plaque that is transducing the cell death signal
As to all this stuff about big pharma somehow blocking research on cheap Alz drugs... there are a lot of scientists and doctors out there with Alz+ parents; thats what you call motivation.
Well, apparently some poorly spelled words r xceptible in in cidnee....
Sorry I'm even offer topic....
STOP. You're being farmed.
learn it first. Autopsied Alzheimer's brain shows no sign of the prion-nucleated chain reaction that is characteristic of Mad Cow or other prion diseases. It is amyloid-beta that accumulates in Alzheimer's. And it isn't even known whether the amyloid "plaques" are causative or simply an anomalous by-product.
Be nice if this work on Parkinson's disease also. Which one of the articles showed some improvement also.
Additionally this person hypocritically didn't offer any information herself, didn't put an ounce of effort into making anything better, just into making insults and complaints. You don't just slam someone for bringing up a potentially critical issue, especially early on when not all the facts are known.
If you look at the other responses, people did actually use Google and look into what was referenced on the site that "Antimony" had an issue with. At least in Mozilla the amount of effort to do that is miminal, less than 5 seconds of work to get the search going. Of course to do a proper research paper on CJD/mad cow/Alzheimer's is out of the scope of a Slashdot comment. Prusiner and others are funded with many millions of dollars to do that work.
As for your own comment... calling me a "troll" because I point out a maddened complainer who also happens to be a hypocrite... is just classic. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "troll", eh? I may not have been "nice" in my answer, but being "nice" to "not nice" people is merely giving positive reinforcement to abusive behavior. That may be your gig, but it ain't mine.
I still don't understand why you don't link an article. It's not that complicated.
;)
The *point* of the post was that you had no scientific evidence in the post. Posting some wouldn't be that hard.
If you read the link I originally posted, there are excerpts from many medical publications. No, the references are not hyperlinked. But they are in text form, so it is a small step for the reader to highlight any particular publication reference and right click "Web search" (in Mozilla). Thus with a miniscule effort, the nasty naysayer could have explored all the medical publications. Note that many online medical journals require registration and/or subscription which may be why the author of the page I linked to does not have hyperlinks. Some of the references can be tracked down using the method I described above at other sites, though.
For example, one of the referenced publications on misdiagnosed atypical dementias is available on the NIH site.
Additionally in a later post, I provided a link to a site that contained 66 citations regarding CDJ and Alzheimer's. I am certainly not going to go through all 66 publications and find all the appropriate bits and pieces, compile them, and then post them here all because someone is too lazy to read through the supplied links (all of which are hyperlinked).
As I have said before, it is Stanley Prusiner, the Nobel prize winning scientist who discovered prions, who first suspected the linkage between BSE and CJD. There has been a lot of research, including the findings that CDJ is being misdiagnosed as Alzheimer's and other dementias. So if for some reason you think it is all a hoax, I would suggest looking into Prusiner's research as well as the research of other scientists in this subject area.
In sum, I have provided links or text references to nearly 100 pieces of information supporting what I originally posted. I would invite you (and any others) to do the reading and then continue on with research sufficient to your needs.
Cheers.
Mooooooooooooooooeeeeeeeeoooooooooooooooo
Sorry, but someone had to say it.
If much of the beef is indeed infected with BSE, it offers something interesting to look into. As you know many people getting diabetes are quite young which provides a further reason to track down your brilliant correlation.
Good thinking! It's a healthy sign to see someone who isn't dismissive when he or she doesn't know all the facts.
Maybe there is some very good reason the cow is sacred in India, eh?
As for work being stolen, that goes on all the time and has been a mainstay of higher eduction for hundreds of years. I'm not saying I agree with it, but look at almost any Ph.D program and you will find the same sort of idea/brain leverage/theft.
Today there are still many millions of dollars being spent on prion research to investigate the CJD (not just the variant form) - Alzheimer's link.
As I posted previously, there was a discovery that is helping us understand how prions work with respect to human memory.
If we keep learning, I think it is worthwhile to keep the research going. At the end of the day if we figure out some important things on the prevention side of medicine, the cost savings and the life savings will be substantial.
I don't know what is wrong with people but the concept of "knowing your meat is safe" vs. "guessing your meat is safe" met with some rather bizarre resistance. Europe and Japan have incredibly thorough BSE testing compared to the USA because of the all the links to human disease that they either discovered or suspected.
Looking back on this topic, what I walk away with is the disappointment that there are actually people in America who believe that what we eat has nothing to do with diseases we get...
First of all, it is incredibly uncommon for strict vegetarians (those who don't drink milk) to get diabetes. Try looking at the health of people around the world who are even mostly vegetarians and you will find very very low incidences of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer (all common in meat eaters).
Second, for those vegetarians that drink milk, of course they are at risk of prion-based diseases.
Third, the "BSE scare" is a well-founded concern. Unless you have raised your brain solely on American beef and TV, you know there was a major BSE outbreak in Europe. This outbreak was far worse than it had to be because of industry and government coverups and a basic unwillingless to do BSE testing on all the cows. Go to the BBC and European news sites and do the damn research instead of throwing cheap insults at me. Britain and Europe learned the hard way, through many deaths, about BSE.
Fourth, typically it is politicians that hurl stupid insults at other people, not normal people. As you have a penchant for insulting me, I would gather, empirically, that you are the politician. Or you may just be one of those "angry" people (one of the symptoms of CJD by the way).
Fifth, your admission of trying to trap me tells me everything I need to know about you -- that you are the one with the agenda, the covert purposes and an undisclosed special interest. Good people put what they know on the table and work together to find out what is real and to make each person's life better using the information and tools at hand.
If you cannot even have a discussion on Slashdot without running your little mind games and hidden agenda, it shows what a wretched person you are. I would guess that like most people who require "proof from quantum theory on up", you have low self-esteem. That could also explain the personal attacks. If you cannot think clearly, well, that is another CJD symptom.
You do not even have the courage to post your messages using your named account. That also tells me a lot on who is running the little games. You don't even have the strength of conviction to stand behind your words. Or perhaps if you are the original naysayer, don't want everyone on Slashdot to know how hard it is for you to say "I was wrong".
Lastly, I am not trying to convince you of anything. If you want to learn something and make a decision about it, do the reading. Yes, this requires more work than watching TV so you probably don't know how to do it. If you are sensitive to this topic because you've eaten beef (or other cow products) and you know your brain is not working as well as it used to... I'd suggest turmeric and a program of anti-oxidants and brain-centric nutrition. Try and save what's left, for your sake. Good luck.
Obviously for such steps to be taken mad cow must be more than the fantasy disease that you are saying it is.
I know many scientists who could not accept a new idea if it came up to them and whacked them on the side of the head. So your stalwart defense against new ideas is nothing new. It's one reason why science makes so many blunders and why technology does so much harm to nature.
To address one of your points of long ago regarding anonymity, let me say this: When two people want to have an authentic discussion, in good faith, they sit at the table together. Neither one puts on a mask. As you have a mask on, I can only assume you are not at the table in good faith. This is simple human nature.
One day, perhaps when you are older, you will understand life better. Often it takes the wisdom of mortality to help scientists understand that there is a human side to their work. Not everything is "known facts" and "proofs". When this day comes, you will take off your mask and have a real discussion. Life is precious, life is short. Why walk the path of fear? Why be so afraid of new ideas?
Vaya con dios.