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Bell Labs Demos Cell Phone Location Software

mateub writes "AP via Yahoo reports that Bell Labs will soon announce cell phone software to reveal the owner's location to interested parties. To alleviate privacy concerns they say the software will 'let cell users be as picky as they choose about disclosing their whereabouts' but the article goes on to mention 'the ability for restaurants and other businesses to send a solicitation by text message to a cell phone when its owner wanders within range of those merchants.' Oh, wonderful, cellular popups..."

23 of 341 comments (clear)

  1. Hmm.... by SilentT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds like a very good reason for me to remain cell-phone-free.

  2. Great for kids by ObviousGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While some adulterous adults may not want to have their whereabouts known, it is important for kids to be tracked.

    Child abduction is a major problem that affects thousands of families every year. This kind of cell phone tracking would go far to help find missing kids before they end up dead and in a ditch.

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
    1. Re:Great for kids by a1ok · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Assuming for a moment that, unlike what another poster pointed out, there *are* kidnappers stupid enough to let some kid keep his cell. Why can't the parents just tell the police his cell number and get it tracked through E911 or other triangulation services that are currently available instead?

      This technology afaik just builds on the infrastructure that providers also have for E911 (in US) and tries to commercialize it for ad revenue et al. Right now they're talking about letting spouses and friends know about your location, but eventually there could be some provision that ad companies pay for sending the sms or mms (at bulk rates of course), and that would open the floodgates for much more targeted advertising. Especially since once its the sender who's paying for cell bandwidth, it becomes 'acceptable' like for telemarketing to land lines (of course the time you spend answering such calls is apparently worthless!).

    2. Re:Great for kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Justification like this is nonsense. The end serves the means? Yes, thousands of families, so we sacrifice millions in convenience.

      Yes, let's start using email to save lives. Donate blood, a kidney, a lung if it matches Suzie's immuno pattern.

      If 'if everyone just took 5 minutes out of their day' philosophy for every issue or ideal out there, people would find there are not enough hours in the day.

      How about I put it this way since you like hypotheticals--you will care less about an abducted child once a friend of yours gets killed because some other driver glanced for a second at the flood of text messages that come into his cell phone as he passed a highway exit (McD's 4 cheeseburgers for $2! Wendy's #8 for $3, premium gas for $1.40!, stop in at the GMC dealership for a great deal on a 2003 model--going fast!).

      How about the loss in jobs and the industry, which tend to pay health care for thousands of families, when workers get laid off because of the decline in text messaging? You think this sounds funny, watch. Text messaging will go the way of email--there will be more of it and less people really paying attention to it.

      When I pay for my cell phone service, I expect it to be used for my reasons, as a mobile phone. Not as a spam device. The consequence of being tracked say, by police as a side effect of the technology is vaguely understandable--which brings up another point...why exactly do you need this software to do what is already done with triangulation and other methods? 911 services do this sort of thing already. But to hand it over for commercial purposes and then play it off for distant humanitarian purposes? Screw you.

  3. No need to transmit at all, most of the time by HiKarma · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It's possible to produce compelling location-aware network applications without requiring the device to tell the outside world where it is. Instead, have the network provide information about the general area, and let the device decide what to do about it.


    Only in an emergency need you tell the outsiders where you are. You don't even want to always tell trusted people where you are. That's like being lojacked. Given the ability, how can you say to your wife, "Honey, I don't want you to see my location every minute of every day?"


    Unless she's a good, understanding privacy advocate.


    For an example of a nice location aware app that doesn't have to tell the network where you are, check out this blog entry about The Big Yellow Button

  4. Is it your cell phone???? by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If you get a company cell phone, does the company have the right control the rules on who may locate you?


    Another thought, what about cell phone companies using the phone location service to send bill collectors?

  5. Enough by savagedome · · Score: 5, Insightful

    enabling users to specify what location information is shared, when, with whom, how and under what circumstances

    They told us that navigation system is for navigation. And then, its tracking the cars, speeding tickets.

    They told us cookies is just to make the stateless HTTP protocol have some states. And then, its Double Click and all the tracking.

    They told us at the grocery store that the card will be used to get discounts. And then, you start getting those annoying mail related to products you bought.

    Hello marketing fellas out there, PLEASE stop. Consumer is getting upset.

  6. Yeah right by brunes69 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's the kind of excuse Bush and Ashcroft want to use to pull the woll over your eyes. You really think this would stop any kidnappers?

    Step 1: Kidnap Kid
    Step 2: Throw any phone they have in the dumpster

    Really, why the hell do you think any kidnappers are going to let a kid keep his PHONE on him? You think they're THAT stupid?

    1. Re:Yeah right by qw(name) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Really, why the hell do you think any kidnappers are going to let a kid keep his PHONE on him? You think they're THAT stupid?

      Yes. Most criminals are very stupid.
    2. Re:Yeah right by AvitarX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well...

      Lets see the scenerios.

      first. 13 year old child is home alone (quite reasonable) after school for two hours and is absolutly not supposed to do anything else without contecting his/her parents.

      On the way home said child is abducted and phone left in a dumpster. Parents come home and flip. Child does not answer phone. They then use this service and find the phone in a dumpster. hmmm, seams like foul play.

      If the phone was not trackable it is going to be at least 8 hours before anyone who can do anything (athorities) care. They probably won't really do anything until the next morning.

      I somehow see the phone in the dumpster as a big clue that something is up.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    3. Re:Yeah right by AvitarX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      maybe you don't remember being a kid. But not calling and not showing up is really not that big of a deal. happens all the time and the cops wouldn't give a shit.

      If the cell phone was discarded it would mean much more. As said 13 year old is probably using it to talk to their friends almost continually.

      Also if said cell phone was trackable it would very likly have finger prints of the criminal on it.

      Also depending on the MO of the criminal the cellphone in the purse my very well remain. Not all crimes are committed by experts, or even people that know how to commit them.

      If someone grabs child and then binds them in the back of the van they may take the back pack in a seperate part of the vehicle for later mastibatory purposes.

      Just because a security messure is easily cercomvented does not mean it is totally useless (window locks for example do not protect the glass from being broken).

      If someone wants them or their child to be trackable it is completly within there rights to do so.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    4. Re:Yeah right by AstroDrabb · · Score: 2, Insightful
      maybe you don't remember being a kid. But not calling and not showing up is really not that big of a deal. happens all the time and the cops wouldn't give a shit.
      If an adult (18+) is "missing" and there is no sign of faul play, the police will wait 24 hours. If a minor (17-) is missing, the police will act right away.

      The majority of child abductions are done by a parent. Usually from a nasty divorce. Another portion is done by a close friend/family member. While a small percentage is done by a stranger.

      The real point you seem to miss is that technology that is presented NOW as a means to keep the kids safe, may later be presented as a means to keep you safe. In five years or so, it because a default, and then in 10 years or so, it becomes mandatory. This is the subtle way of having our liberties stripped away from us. Make us feel "unsafe" and then have "BIG BROTHER" give us a way to feel "safe" again. Then we all thank "BIG BROTHER" for making us "safe" while in the process we give up a little of our essential liberties. Can you say Patriot Act or Patriot Act II?

      Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither.

      --
      If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
      it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
  7. Dial 9-1-1 and it should, automagically, track you by khasim · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the article.

    "However, given the real-time requirements of transmitting information over a telephone network, it can be difficult to program a wide-range of options for individuals to personalize preferences such as when, where and with whom to share location information. One solution is to hard-code a network database with an "on-off" switch that activates or deactivates a service, for instance, during a window of time with set hours such as peak and off-peak."

    So, dial 9-1-1 and your phone should broadcast its location.

    Otherwise, just make it an option for the numbers you have stored on your phone and a simple check box for the rest (I want to receive tons of phone spam Y/N).

    #1. If I dial 9-1-1, my location is broadcast.

    #2. If I turn off the broadcast function, my location is not broadcast (unless #1).

    #3. For every phone number I have stored, I have the option to broadcast (or not) my location to that number, provided I have broadcast turned on (#2).

    #4. For everyone else, I can choose to receive massive amounts of phone spam (unless #2). Why anyone would choose this option is beyond me.

    Any problems with that? It seems simple to me. And it should be easily implemented in software. Of course, it will NOT provide the captive audience for phone spam that seems to be the focus of that article. But so what?

  8. Re:Who pays for the message? by Isca · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I don't think this will be how it works, when this becomes a reality. I'm sure there will be a whole new sales force devoted to selling this service to buisnesses, who will jump on this quickly in alot of urban markets. To make it effective, they have to send this down to as many people as possible. Which leads to the following....


    5 years after this comes out, getting a cell phone plan will probably cost half as much as it does now, or even less, AS LONG as you get the ad-supported account. This way, they'll be able to sell the private ad-free one for even more than we pay now!

  9. Not so great for kids by HiKarma · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Many have pointed out how ineffective lojacking kids would be if the kidnappers (who 99% of the time are relatives, the press just makes a big deal when there is a stranger kidnapping) are aware of the technology.

    It can be worse, it can be used to mislead. Of course they can just turn the phone off (you going to trigger an alert on every dead battery or out of range cell phone?) but they can also plant it at the home or the home of some red herring.

    But here's the real question. Kids have rights. At what age will parents finally let their kids be free of the surveillance anklet we're calling a cell phone?

    I can tell you it will be later than it should be for almost all parents, that is their nature, and it's understandable.

    But I think if we are going to have readily available child-lojack, there may need to be a law to protect the children from their parents, and forbid doing it after the age of 12. The kids can still have a phone, can still call 911 and transmit their location, but no parent query.

    Otherwise we destroy the freedom of all kids to catch one stupid criminal out of 100,000 who doesn't know to turn off the phone. All the other times it will be used to say, "I told you not to associate with that Jimmy kid."

    1. Re:Not so great for kids by Valar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I just want to say that this is one of the better posts attached to this story. It is also, however, a wildly unpopular opinion in puritan america. Most people honestly believe that they should control every bit of their kid's life until the "child" graduates from college. The worst part is, they seem to block out the fact that they hated it when their parents did the same to them. Somehow, people who hated it when pops asked "Where are you going?" think that a TRACKING DEVICE is less envasive.

      I know many people who keep their fingers on the tuition-kill switch, so that if their kid steps "out of line" (get bf/gf the parental units don't like, listen to the wrong music, don't come home every weekend to mow the grass) the student gets to take out loans. Say what you will about parents paying tuition, but I think it should be one or the other, pay or don't, or at least tie it to academic performance, not lifestyle choices.

      The majority of small children don't have cellphones. Older highschool students and college students do. THAT is the parental potential of this device.

  10. Don't Neglect the Useful Applications by thebiss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just as cookies have useful applications, so will location-based messaging. Location-based traffic reports immediately come to mind.

    I'd love to get an SMS when I-684/I-95 are jammed, and I'd love it even more if the service was free, paid for by an ad for the local Dunkin Donuts. :-)

    --
    Beware: I believe all are created equal, and have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
  11. Could be worse by wornst · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Billboards, flyers, guys dressed in a chicken suit to advertise the opening of a KFC - it's all unwanted and all in your face everyday. I don't see how cell phone ads are any different . . . except for the fact that you pay for the cell phone to work so that the advertisers HAVE a new way to bombard you. The least that could be done is for the carrier to offer phone bill discounts to people who allow themselves to be ad targets (and restaurant coupons too).

    Seems the easiest thing to do would be to turn the phone off - which I do anyway. It is an option we don't have with other forms of advertisements.

    They will probably remove the off button though.

  12. Re-imbursement? by ignipotentis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I hope they plan on giving me a nickel if i walk in and show them the pop-up. I sure as hell don't want to get charged for something like this.

    --
    Don't waste time... procrastinate now!
  13. Some areas of abuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Some ways in which this could be hijacked for malicious purposes:

    1) Angry spouse getting back at partner (ie, escaping violent environment holed up at an undisclosed location)

    2) Law officers having their cell numbers given out, then called, hang up, when called back, their locations revealed. Endanger their families.

    3) Same for judges, crummy construction contractors, bad auto repair shop owners... anybody who might make someone else mad for one reason or another.

    Need I go on?

    What if one of our national leaders is located (while in an undisclosed location) via his cell phone by an extremist who is bent on revenge? What about his family?

    Abortion providers (who I'm not happy about in areas of convenient terminations of pregnancy) could also come under fire.

    How about hackers who slip into a phone company's system and finds where someone works/frequents and blackmails others, or even just lets it slide that they frequent X rated establishments?

    How long before someone is able to latently track cell phones (via some hack/intrusion) of say... the president of the united states while on a trip? Okay, maybe not the president... how about an aide who's always with him? How often are the updates made? Often enough to track with targeting on a weapon?

    Where do we draw the line on capabilities to track people?

    How about people found speeding because the distance per time exceeds any possible speed limit between those tested points?

    How about going after phone company execs?

    Yeah, I thought so... they don't want their phones to broadcast at all.

    Is there any hope of an open source hardware board that can be used as a phone with an appropriate ID card/pre-paid card purchased to get on networks without relying on someone else's tracking?

  14. Re:Actually, Yes, he is Right by AstroDrabb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And there are thousands more that go missing for the few stories you posted about. I do think it is great whenever ANY missing person/child is found. I personally do not think it is right to allow this person tracking technology to be allowed. It WILL one day be used against our essential liberties, and then it will be too late. This all sound too Orwellian to me : )

    --
    If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
    it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
  15. the thing is by August_zero · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here is my take:

    I don't have a home phone; I only keep the cell phone. Why? Because I can't see the point of having a land line that is only going to subject me to a constant torrent of tele-marketing. With the cell-phone if someone needs or wants to reach me, they can no matter where I happen to be. My typical response is to not reply, and then later when accused of ignoring whoever it was that was trying to reach me i can blame it on poor cell service. Land lines almost never go down and people will only buy the whole "my machine has been dodgy lately" shtick so many times. So see the Cell phone helps me keep the world at arms length through the illusion of fallibility.

    This militant "I don't have a cell phone" thing perplexes me. Banal conversation is the crux of modern civilization! I won't even bother bringing up the irony of complaining about superfluous communication by posting on a message board.

    --
    On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
  16. Cellular pop ups won't work by NTDaley · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Regular popups wouldn't work either if the advertiser was close enough to visit to "register disapproval".

    --
    bits and peace
    Nicholas Daley