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Gridlock Expert Takes On Sim City Streets

Thanks to the Gaming-Age messageboard regulars for pointing to an EA webpage interviewing real-life traffic engineer Sam Schwartz, aka 'Gridlock Sam', and discussing "ways to alleviate traffic congestion in your own virtual metropolis" for Maxis/EA's PC game Sim City 4: Rush Hour. Schwartz notes some of the tricks gamers use to get round traffic congestion in-game: "I have read on the Sim City message boards, and seen screen shots of cities where mayors build roads at certain angles to avoid the creation of a traffic light", but goes on to suggest relevant real-world tactics, particularly noting players should "...use underground rail where [traffic] density is the greatest." However, 'Gridlock Sam' found unexpected social issues even in the virtual city: "One time I made the mistake of turning all my roads into streets thinking I was improving the level of service and therefore congestion would lessen. It did, but now I had Sims yelling at me because their once bucolic roads became bustling streets."

41 comments

  1. But by obeythefist · · Score: 5, Funny

    What did Gridlock Sam have to say about the increased instances of Godzillas and Volcanoes in his cities? How did this impact on traffic analysis?

    --
    I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
    1. Re:But by daeley · · Score: 3, Funny

      Wrong guy. You want to ask Wrath-of-God Joe those questions. ;)

      --
      I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
  2. In the first SimCity by M3wThr33 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It made sense to use ONLY railroad tracks. Albeit more expensive, it was more acceptable and well liked. How far our games have come. . .

    1. Re:In the first SimCity by DrEldarion · · Score: 2, Informative

      You really only had to put one square of road / track by any zone, and it would think the whole zone was connected to everything else. That saved a ton of money, but made for a pretty crappy-looking city.

  3. Roundabouts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hey, Mr. Gridlock expert!

    Why the hell doesn't the US build more roundabouts? They are not that difficult.

    Coming from England, I find that the lack of roundabouts a *serious* problem on the roads of America. When they do build them over here, in larger places to be fancy and for show. And then the medium-sized ones tend to suck - they don't build any "raised bump & painted lines that you can actually drive over if you're going straight across the intersection" ones, these are awesome for minor intersections where there's not much room.

    I've got a hunch that they can't build them here because driving tests are so amazingly simple and driver's education so sparse. Without the lights to regulate there would instantly be an accident on every corner. "What right of way?"

    Traffic lights are cause of traffic delays, waits, burnt fuel idling at the lights. The only partial relief is the "right turn on red" rule - it means I find myself planning routes around town where I minimise turning left.

    1. Re:Roundabouts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Traffic lights are cause of traffic delays, waits, burnt fuel idling at the lights. The only partial relief is the "right turn on red" rule - it means I find myself planning routes around town where I minimise turning left.

      I wonder how much this cuts down on accidents. I'm sure that many accidents in urban areas are caused by the crossing over of traffic to cross left. I always plan my routes this way too, but not only to avoid waiting at lights.

    2. Re:Roundabouts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They're commonly built in neighborhoods to slow through traffic.

      But the main reason we don't use them is the same reason we don't use SI units. Retooling and retraining is expensive. Not to mention they just seem like invitations to disaster with the "Mememe nownownow" people.

      Hey, and about the planning. It takes little effort, and saves time. There's something to be said for knowing what the hell you're doing.

    3. Re:Roundabouts. by Weh · · Score: 2, Informative

      In Holland where traditionally there aren't a lot of roundabouts they suddenly sprang up all over the place. A lot of intersections got converted into roundabouts too. This (and the fact that it's possible to find roundabouts with only one exits apart from the ongoin road i.e. a junction) raised the suspicion that road-construction companies were bribing local officials into deciding that intersections needed to be converted into roundabouts. The term 'roundabout - mafia' was quickly coined.

    4. Re:Roundabouts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Large roundabouts in England are now being converted into intersections.

      I think that the reasoning is that they are safer and help the overall trafic flow. The downside is that aggressive drivers spend more time waiting at a red light and get frustrated.

    5. Re:Roundabouts. by RegalBegal · · Score: 1

      Actually my friend from across the pond. There are a few left here in New England but they are called Rotarys and they are horrible. Which could be why there are so few left now as well as them getting rid of them in England too.

      --
      "It'll destroy you if you try to make it mean anything to anyone but yourself." - Henry Rollins
    6. Re:Roundabouts. by Quarters · · Score: 2, Funny

      Five words, "Look, Kids! Big Ben, Parliament!"

    7. Re:Roundabouts. by johannesg · · Score: 1

      Indeed, some countries have turned roundabouts into an art form.

    8. Re:Roundabouts. by wed128 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are many Roundabouts in southern New jersey and Maryland...and they seem to cause more accidents than streetlights, it's just not worth the few minutes saved waiting. Also, 4-way stop signs are common there, and are very annoying. I happen to like streetlights, as long as they are programmed to turn colors efficiantly.

    9. Re:Roundabouts. by Washizu · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Why the hell doesn't the US build more roundabouts?"

      Over the last 15 years, New Jersey has been eliminating their "roundabouts" (we just call them circles). I still drive through one every day on the way to work and it's really bad in the 5:00PM traffic. Could driving on the other side of the road make a difference in the effectiveness of the roundabout? In my experience, a bad traffic light is preferable to a bad traffic circle, because I'm at least guaranteed to eventually get through the traffic light. On most traffic circles, one feeding street dominates the traffic flow and the other streets have to hope for a gap that may never come.

      --
      OddManIn: A Game of guns and game theory.
    10. Re:Roundabouts. by TheLink · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While roundabouts are pretty good under low to mid traffic conditions, under heavy traffic they fail even more ungracefully compared to traffic lights.

      You can end up in a situation where the roundabout is full and nobody can get out to where they want because the roundabout is full. Well actually not totally impossible - someone can eventually squeeze out. But that sure makes things a lot slower. You have to make them really big to prevent over filling, and that's not usually possible.

      Of course with traffic lights people could get stuck in the middle and block traffic if they make a misjudgement, or are plain idiotic/selfish. But even if that happens it takes more idiots elsewhere to totally jam things up.

      BTW with traffic lights, during very low traffic conditions you could make all the lights flash yellow. That's what is done here in some intersections at night.

      --
    11. Re:Roundabouts. by MonkeyCookie · · Score: 1

      Where I live in California they are starting to build some of those things in newer developments. I don't like them much. When there is a lot of traffic, it can be really difficult to get on a roundabout.

    12. Re:Roundabouts. by Rhys · · Score: 1

      Having lived in England for 2 years...

      In the US, you yield to the right. That means the person entering the roundabout would have right of way. From what my parents said, you yield to the right in England as well (I wasn't driving in 4th/5th grade), so you yield to the person in the roundabout.

      I'm sure you can quickly see how this wouldn't work in the slightest. It could in theory work, that's after all how our highways work. But you'll note that there you're going about 40 and hopeing the guy doing 90 doesn't creme you. Traffic on roundabouts aren't doing 90.

      It annoys me too, but unfortunatly americans are too impatient for it to work.

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    13. Re:Roundabouts. by Tofino · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Wrong kind of roundabouts, AC. Those are the small, common, mini-roundabouts that as far as I can tell are only found in North America. In England and elsewhere, roundabouts are the equivalent of highway ramps. You are driving down a highway, or on a major street in a city, and suddenly there's a huge, 3-lane-wide roundabout. You need to pick your lane carefully and aggressively so that you end up on the outside at the precise moment that your exit from the roundabout comes up (there are usually 4 or 5 exits from a roundabout).

      It sounds like chaos, and it looks completely disorganized when you first think of or see it, but you quickly realize that there's a reason why traffic congestion in England, even in big cities, is so much lower than in the US: the roundabouts, and the relative lack of traffic lights. The drivers in England also tend, in my opinion, to be better. You can spot US and Canadian drivers in England very easily, as they're the ones who timidly stop before a roundabout, aren't sure when to merge, etc. In England, I've seen major roads in rush hour change from 2 lanes, to one, back to 2 again, and traffic never slow below 20mph as cars dance in and out. In Vancouver, if there's a car parked in the right lane during rush hour, traffic stops.

    14. Re:Roundabouts. by TwistedSquare · · Score: 1
      In the US, you yield to the right

      This yielding only applies at roundabouts to my mind (can't think of any other places where yielding is an issue). So basically roundabouts in the US are screwed from the outset because someone chose the priority to go the wrong way for them? I'm not complaining, just trying to find out the facts.

    15. Re:Roundabouts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Roundabouts suck.

      I live in New Hampshire, and a freind of mine lives on a sparely trafficked road in a development that has three roundabouts in a row on a section of road which you want to move over quickly to get to a main road. They are clearly intended to slow traffic down, because several years after they were added they then went and added STOP SIGNS to them as well! So now you have to stop before entering the roundabout, which makes them even more annoying to navigate.

      I have also encountered larger roundabouts in Boston and Derry NH, and in both cases they were difficult to enter when there was a lot of traffic.

      Ever seen National Lampoon's European Vacation, where they got stuck int he roundabout for hours? They didn't stick that in there for no reason.

    16. Re:Roundabouts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think about it, if this were Britain and you were driving on the left side of the road, then the traffic circle would go clockwise instead of counter-clockwise -- the core problems of how to enter the circle would remain.

      The thing I like about New Jersey is that it serves as a reminder to the other nearby states of how NOT to build your road network.... Traffic Circles, highways that exit on both the left and right side of the road, and you have to pay to get out of the state...

    17. Re:Roundabouts. by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 1

      Yield to the right, is usually used (at least here in California) for two (or more) people arriving at a 4 way stop at the same time, and assuming that thier movements would conflict. As for roundabouts, I've never actually seen one, much less driven in one, so I can't comment.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
    18. Re:Roundabouts. by Tombstone-f · · Score: 1

      Actually, in the US yeilding to the right is only used at 4 way stops when 2 cars arrive at the same time. In a circle you yeild to the left, in other words to cars already in the circle. BTW, I do live in the US, and they're popping up all over the place near my house.

    19. Re:Roundabouts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well one reason roundabouts are a problem where im from is snow and ice. Roundabouts would be a considerable problem when the roads get icy. In fact every curved road is a major slowdown here when the roads get icy here.

      In my observation icy roads make all yeilding very hazardous. The excelleration for your vehicle can be unexprectedly low.

    20. Re:Roundabouts. by rowanxmas · · Score: 1

      So they put in a roundabout in my home town of bainbridge island wa, everyone loves it, my mom goes out of her way to go through it. It helped immensly.

    21. Re:Roundabouts. by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      We have several "traffic circles" in the Cleveland, Ohio, suburbs, surprisingly enough. (Yes, mostly in affluent areas.)

      One of these (in a slightly less affluent area) does permit traffic on the primary road to proceed straight through the circle. Unfortunately, this behavior is governed by a traffic light on both sides of the circle where this road intersects - it's timed so that you won't have to stop twice, of course.

      We have another traffic circle that is so screwed up that (1) there is a *sign* that tells you how to drive around the thing (and it looks somewhat like the symbol that Prince was calling himself for a while, and (2) the people *already in the circle* are the ones who have to yield.

      By the way, the traffic light was invented in Cleveland, which only adds a slight irony to still having traffic circles around here.

    22. Re:Roundabouts. by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      In almost all cases in the U.S., merging traffic must yield. Generally speaking, this includes traffic entering a traffic circle.

      However, I have seen traffic circles where the entrances all have stop signs or traffic lights at them; and I have seen one traffic circle where there are yield signs set up so that traffic in the circle is explicitly told to yield.

    23. Re:Roundabouts. by Robmonster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      From my addled memory I think this is from one National Lampoons Vacation (or something like that)

      I seem to remember this occuring when they were in France, going round and round the large roundabout by the Arc de Triomphe.

      This occured as traffic laws in France dictate that traffic entering the roundabout has priority over traffic already on the roundabout, making it very tricky to get off the darn things. Its the reverse in England where once you are on the roundabout you have right-of-way and traffic trying to get on has to let you pass.

      Personally I think roundabouts help traffic flow. Tehre are some nasty crossroads on my way to work whereby the slightest amount of traffic going along the main road causes the intersecting branches to clog up with traffic. A roundabout here would help things immensly (and cut my journey time in half)

      --
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    24. Re:Roundabouts. by Robmonster · · Score: 1

      My completely uninformed opinion is that these accidents occur due to drivers not knowing how to handle the 'bouts. T he drivers are so used to lights controlling their path that the lack of lights on a roundabout gives them the impression they can drive right onto it (right into the path of that oncoming vehicle....)

      Saying that, there is a roundabout near me that also has traffic lights on it that controls the flow onto it (which is good) and also around it (which is bad) . This is a right nightmare in rush-hour.

      --
      I have no sig yet I must scream.
    25. Re:Roundabouts. by delphi125 · · Score: 1

      Roundabouts (or circles as the other replier calls them) only make sense in certain cases. With moderate traffic at all times of the day, they make sense. With light traffic there is no need for them. With heavy traffic, lights are needed. In the UK, they exist in part because some of the roads are not lit, and there is no electricity near. It may simply be cheaper to put a roundabout and some signs up than to put the electricity and traffic lights in, or more specifically, may have been so at the time they were built.

      One place roundabouts are... interesting is Paris. Five lanes wide, eight to ten roads - including the on and off ramps for the Boulevard Peripherique - and with seven cars abreast.

      Now if I were a traffic planner, I would use the U.S. grid pattern (e.g. Palm Desert), but add a bridge/underpass at every major intersection. Instead of left turns, have a loop back after the free right lane.

      The north east corner might look like this:
      | _// |
      |/ \ OR |\//
      |\ / |\\
      +---- +----
      The first example is recognizable as the cloverleaf, with an artery added. The reason for the doubled // is that the system is drive on the right, but the exit from the 'round'about is before (i.e. left of) the entry. The second example is just the same, except not round - the triple right turn to make a left has been made much sharper. The bottom left \ in each case is the turn from the - to the |, and the + is the bridge.

      Not a traffic light in sight. No right of way. Just sorting in to the correct lane.

      Of course, this would only be possible in SimCity. And it would be 'nice' if there were also regular public transportation using this system. But that is another story.

    26. Re:Roundabouts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You Can Find Many "Mini Roundabouts" in Australia. At my Suburbial home in Sydney there many one lane roundabouts altough on the main thruoghfares. Those roundabouts you are talking about in australia are usally on Main road/motorway intersections and are being phased out here as they are major black spots (accident prone areas)

  4. simcity 2000 trick, would it work now? by bbkingadrock · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I remember in simcity 2000 a great strategy was to start your road in the center of the map, then have it be one continuous spiral outwords. there were absolutely no intersections but your road covered all the map. the newer versions probably take into account the fact that the trip would be enormous.

    1. Re:simcity 2000 trick, would it work now? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Sim City 4: Rush Hour has traffic with sources and desinations. :)

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      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:simcity 2000 trick, would it work now? by FunkSoulBrother · · Score: 1

      Simcity 2000 traffic had sources and destinations too, but it was just in terms of zones. As long as you had residential, comericial, and industrial zones alternating on your stretch of road, then any generated "traffic" would be satisfied, as it would get to its destination of R, I or C fairly quickly.

  5. You realize... by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Informative

    You realize, of course, Mr. Expert, that the periodic whining complaints about streets being made into roads makes just about no difference whatsoever? As long as the property doesn't suffer excessive traffic noise along its road, then you can deal with it.
    Particularly effective SC4 traffic strategies usually involve forcing your Sims to take the bus/train/subway/monorail by making it the only reasonable route out of a development... include a good Parking Garage for people who aren't right near the stations... Your development's exit should be headed in the opposite direction from the way your Sims want to go, and place the mass transit exit on the reasonable side. :)

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  6. My favorite Flash Game by satanami69 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Is called gridlock
    http://www.crystalnewmedia.com/gridlock/ gridlock.h tml

    --
    I really hate Dan Patrick.
    1. Re:My favorite Flash Game by Drantin · · Score: 1

      Which is a clone of the game Rush Hour ;)

      --
      Actio personalis moritur cum persona. (Dead men don't sue)
  7. Road Rage by Hittite+Creosote · · Score: 1
    Well, Sim City is quite accurate. They all want to drive, but they whinge about the numbers of cars on the road.

    I tend to stock up huge amounts of cash (a well designed little village can be quite profitable if you ignore the Sims whinging for a decade or two), muck around with the land to allow myself to build a road runnel under a decent stretch, and then flatten that bit and zone it, leaving the tunnel in place, with smaller roads joining to the entrance of the tunnel. Now there is a long, straight express route with no traffic lights from A to B, and the residents above can't hear it. Costs a bomb though, and one error in the flattening can lose the tunnel. And of course, if you make the mistake of putting a surface road that gets from A to B anywhere as quickly, they'll all drive on that.

  8. SC4's traffic model.. by Xzzy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Due to an unwillingness to shell out more cash for what I feel should have been part of the original product, I never bought the rush hour expansion. I did buy SC4 though, the promise of all the new transportation methos drew me in like a moth to flame.

    Unfortuneatley, the traffic model blew ass. There were a multitude of problems when trying to ferry people between different regions, sims were too stupid to take a highway unless it fell on their shortest path algorhythm (they would prefer to take narrow local streets even if the highway would have been faster), and don't even get me started on the braindead decision for the only way to have "busy" commercial zones was to have red traffic right next to them (duh?!). Some of the simulator variables were odd too, wasn't traffic modelled as if all cars were moving at 30mph or somesuch?

    Did rush hour really fix this at all? Reading the feature list, it just seemed like a stop gap measure bolted on to try and cover some of the flaws.

    I know traffic is hard and Maxis did a decent job with the game, but the flaws made it damn near impossible to build a "real" city.. invariably the game turned into a micromanagement nightmare as you bulldozed roads to try and convince the sims to take more intelligent paths. Almost all my cities wound up being groups of individual "pods" that used limited routes to funnel sims into more desireable travel modes.

    I'm not a city planner, but this approach mimics no real world city I've ever witnessed.

    1. Re:SC4's traffic model.. by mandalayx · · Score: 2, Informative

      you'll find patches for this problem at simtropolis's mod pages. go to transit supermod under mods.