Reviving the Firewall Design Program?

rcha101 asks: "I'm not sure if many of you are aware but Robert L. Ziegler use to host (IMHO) the best online firewall configuration tool (formerly available here here, check out the link now for his sad synopsis) until recently when he decided to pull the plug on it. I have since been trying to contact him in an effort to get this tool back online and develop the IPFW2 side of it (correct some of the rules, add extra features to it etc) but have had no luck. Does anyone know how to contact him? Has anyone else been in a similar situation? What web tools do you use that could suddenly disappear overnight? Robert are you out there?"

Comments

Similar situation here

[cxvx]

I just discovered today that a fine site (http://www2.gol.com/users/tame/swing/examples/) with losts of custom swing components went 404.
I was able to retrieve some stuff using the wayback machine, but it is still a shame to see the site itself go.

Maybe the poster should try the wayback machine too.

The author's response to just the question you ask

[petard]

can be found here on his web site.

Question: Is the Firewall Design Program for sale, or is the source code available?

No to both questions.

Firestarter might be useful to you though. Good Luck.

For those too lazy to click the link:

[stienman]

Here's a brief synopsis:

I never made a dime from my obviously useful program, and therefore will not work on it any further because I need to feed myself and my family.

Because I'm so bitter about it, I'm completely closing up shop, and denying anyone any further benefit from my, until recently, free contribution to society.

As far as I'm concerned, you moochers can all go suck it, I'm through.

I don't blame him, he did a lot of work, it was obviously being used by many people who could have afforded hima few luxuries.

But on the other hand, if you don't want to give something away for free, then don't. If you do, then you can't complain about getting nothing in return later - that's simply shortsighted.

The linux router project guy is the epitome of the, "I didn't mean to get nothing back from something I gave away" pitiful rants.

-Adam

Re:For those too lazy to click the link:

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the problem was with how some people treated him. DEMANDING he fix this, implement that, for what was obvious work related. And all without a thank you, when he was done.

Re:For those too lazy to click the link:

[boredMDer]

Interesting, I get a different blurb. He must have changed it.

New text:

The iptables support is completed, but the software went into stasis.

During the iptables upgrade, I found myself building in a level of technical expertise and a fuller feature set that weren't functionally useful for a home user. The software became something much more than the toy I've always seen it as. At the same time, Linux is more evolved than it was when I started, and we're not in the same precarious situation with our ISPs as we once were.

It was extremely rare to get a thank you. It was fairly common to get demands for free technical service of a nature that a home user just wouldn't be asking for. I'd always hoped that I might get something out of the effort for myself and never did. It costs me money and resources to provide the service. I began to ask, why would "they" hire you if what you're giving away "they" see as "good enough" for their purposes.

About that time I looked up the Linux Router Project for some reason and saw that the project was closed. I read the letter the man left on his Web site, and realised that I felt the same way he did.

It seemed there were more reasons to stop than were reasons to continue. Simply getting a warm-fuzzy feeling about myself wasn't a good enough reason to continue anymore.

Re:For those too lazy to click the link:

[Radical Rad]

I think I know how he feels. I too have an open source project, however I have received a few thank you's and a little bit of help. But there are a small percentage of end users who are demanding and ingrateful, one I can remember in particular. Those few stick out and leave a bad impression. But based on the total downloads I know that the vast majority did read the FAQ before emailing and often do help one another out in the forums, and I honestly never expected anything out of it except a good feeling for contributing back to the open source community that I have been leeching from for many years now.

Astounding.

[mewyn]

I don't know much about the project, but his attitude about his project and users is absolutley deplorable.

First off, he shouldn't think of his users as moochers. First off, he was offering it for free. You give something away, you shouldn't ever expect anything back. Second, I'm sure there were many people, like the poster of this article, who are grateful users, but just haven't voiced their opinion. Personally, I'd rather have one message in my inbox about 5 reasons why my software sucks than 100 messages about reasons why it rocks.

Things like feature requests are very common for an admin of a project. And many people out there are rude, or just not conciderate, and their requests may seem like demands to some people. As far as technical support of the software, setup a listserv and make it community support. I would expect any message I send to any project admin about technical support to be brushed off.

One more thing, if he made this an open source project and is now hording the source, that is just wrong. The open source community is just that, you give to them and they provide peer review. True it doesn't always end up that way, but maybe that's because you didn't manage to get the right users.

Anyway, I think he needs to pick up a copy of The Cathedrial and the Bazaar. That may shed a little light onto his problem.

Mewyn Dy'ner

Re:Astounding.

[leonbrooks]

You give something away, you shouldn't ever expect anything back.

Yes, otherwise it's an offer of trade, not a gift.

Personally, I'd rather have one message in my inbox about 5 reasons why my software sucks than 100 messages about reasons why it rocks.

Not so sure about this one. I find error reports more useful but if few to none are also saying thanks then I'm probably missing the mark somewhere.

One more thing, if he made this an open source project and is now hording the source, that is just wrong.

True, except that he's under no obligation to continue providing the source if he ceases providing the binaries, and being the original (and apparently sole) author, he has every right to change the licence arrangements. What he has no right to do is to reach back out and demand that people stop using his source if he ever open-sourced it.

Also, you have no right to demand that he be happy or generous, only reasonable and not rude. And "reasonable" most definitely does not mean "agreeable".

The long and the short of this is that if you find a copy of his code with a FOSS licence, by all means go ahead and use it according to the terms of the licence, set up a community, make it world-famous, knock yourself out - but he has no obligation to support it or you at all.

Interesting

[tomblackwell]

What of similar value have you created and given away for free?

You are representative of what drove him away from his goal.

Anyway, I think he needs to pick up a copy of The Cathedrial and the Bazaar. That may shed a little light onto his problem.

Perhaps his users should have picked up a copy of The Cathedral and the Bazaar. They are not owed software.

We're not owed software, but...

[leonbrooks]

Perhaps his users should have picked up a copy of The Cathedral and the Bazaar. They are not owed software.

My sentiments, too, although I would have at least left the pieces up on a server somewhere.

I have all kinds of bizarre little projects of my own kicking around, and I try to never obselete them; every so often (maybe 3 or 4 times a year) someone emails me to say "thanks for that great little utility" and I have to mail back and say "which one?" because the thing is so trivial and long-forgotten that I have a snowflake's chance in Sudan of guessing right. It's not as if one download a week is going to be expensive.

Ending support is fine, but I think throwing a hissy fit is a bit over the top. Others will think differently.

Re:Deceased...

[petard]

You are mistaken. His site was last updated in mid-December 2003, by the author himself.

via book

[jago25_98]

his book is excellent, and a way to contact:

http://www.ieee-security.org/Cipher/BookReviews/ 20 00/ziegler.jan2000.html
http://www.amazon.co.uk/e xec/obidos/ASIN/073571099 6/qid=1074769733/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_3_1/202-4508407-8 460612
(this is the same guy right?)

Got nothing, huh?

[jpsst34]

"I'd always hoped that I might get something out of the effort for myself and never did."

Hey, Robert Ziegler, what about your book, based on the same subject matter? Five years ago I was looking to set up a 2.2 firewall for my home LAN. I came across your firewall tool. I thought it was great, and I wanted to learn more about what you had done with ipchains. So I bought your book after learning about it through your site - your site out of which you got nothing. I found it to be quite useful. Are you telling us that you made absolutely no money at all on that book? I bought one, didn't you get a portion of my $40?

Money aside, are you saying that you got nothing out of it? I found your book through your site. I read your book. Now I know your name. If someone's interested in learning about firewalls, I can say, "I have this great book by Robert Ziegler. You should check it out. The samples are based on the old ipchains tool, but many of the concepts he covers are worth reading." You're a published technical author. Is that worth nothing to you?

Frankly, Robert Ziegler, I'm disappointed in you. Not only did I use your site, but I never demanded any kind of support from you. Hell, I never even asked you. I just bought your book. Just because there were plenty of assholes that thought your website was an open invitation to burden you with their firewall problems does not mean that there weren't plenty more of us who treated you with respect, used your tool, and bought the book you were trying to sell. Don't forget it.